Suggested translation guidelines

[Safaquel]

I suggest that we gather our, uh, suggestions for the future guidelines for translators, and, preferably, the rationale behined them, here, in this thread. Afterwards I presume Chris will make those official, which would help, but some discussion prior to that point is, I think, mandatory.

I will add them to this particular post by copy-paste or links, including, dear readers, your contributions.

Here they are, in no particular order.

*** TRANSLATION GUIDELINE SUGGESTIONS ***

0. Read dem books. A lot.

Without reading classic literature or a lot of classicised translations in your chosen language you cannot get anywhere near the vocabulary you need to translate something. Even english, which seems to most foreigners remarkably simple shows surprising complexity even in its more known americanized form.

It is also nice to read translation-related literature prior to translating a large project, to get the feel of the language necessary. For example, you might want to read military logs and some of the officer diaries available if you are translating something with a heavy military team.

1. Allow yourself to feel and understand the game.

Rationale a.k.a. rant:

Regardless of what many people with higher education in translation and linguistics might be led to believe, the most important part is getting the feel of the message, its base, the idea behind the images and sensations it conjures. You normally feel things, or possibly see the images, or, while reading a particularly evocative piece of literature, may even imagine the smells of things described. This is where the true translation and understanding starts. Once you completely (insofar we're capable of) understand the idea, you are free to express it in your own way, as long as you convey all the same emotional shades, overtones and basic information.

For people with more logic-oriented thinking it is good to ask yourself some questions. For example, what is the setting? What are people doing? What is the style of their communication, and are there any reasons for it?

All these things help a lot in progress.

2. Localize the game.

That means, if you're German, make the game feel as if it were made by germans. Or at least as if the germans were watching over the designers' shoulders and pointing out how their inferior design should strive to meet the uebermensch standards. It also means you germanify all the names, because you don't really want the game to sound foreign to the players (it kinda defeats the purpose of translation and localization).

Rationale a.k.a. rant: True localization allows the player to be imersed in a world he understands, one that, while being unfamiliar, does not feel foreign. Foreignness hurts immersion in more way that one, and may well leave the game a slightly blander experience than it would otherwise be. I have seen this happen often enough, as well as the opposite thing happening also (though much rarer).

3. Be creative, but not overly.

This means your creativity should not be allowed to ruin the game's message, but should be used as much as possible to convey the original meaning to the local audience. Don't hesitate to use some words that are not commonly used, if you believe they convey the message better than more commonplace ones.

4. Do your homework! Research the topic in question for language style and commonly used words and phrases.

This helps a lot when making translator decisions, and it also helps to get a message across in a way that doesn't feel totally foreign.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Safaquel

[Chris]

I think these are a bit too general and they basically say "be good at translation" I think the translation guidelines need to be more specific, on points like this:

General:

• Make sure you've played the game from start to finish before you try to translate it, as you'll struggle to write about things you've not experienced in-game (though this may not apply quite yet).
  
• The tone of the game is serious and generally quite factual and military.
  
• The Xenopedia descriptions are written by the Chief Scientist, who is very intelligent but also incredibly arrogant, and very petty. The descriptions are meant to be informative and contain quite a lot of semi-plausible science, but also mildly humorous.
  
• Beware of making the research descriptions too long; we don't want them too long that people get bored when reading them. I've had to edit my own entries quite aggressively to convey all the information without making them too long.
  

Names: If the name is a made-up name (like "Caesan") then just use that, but if it is an actual word (like "Reaper") then you should see if there is a better name for the alien in the local language. In German, allegedly the word for "Harvester" might make more sense. Maybe I'll provide a list of what each name is meant to evoke.

Etc. If you have further topics for me to explain my feelings on, please post them here.

[Safaquel]

Maybe I'll provide a list of what each name is meant to evoke.

Actually a very good idea. That, and cultural references, if there are any. Might be a tad obscure otherwise.

Other points noted.

Also, Chief Scientist is a female? I didn't quite bother to connect the image with the writing style, I admit.

[Chris]

No, the chief scientist is a man who has long hair

[Schnittertm]

No, the chief scientist is a man who has long hair

The one on the picture for the new research screen, right? That guy reminds me a bit of Gaius Baltar from the new Battlestar Galactica series.

Okay, back on topic. I'll have to disagree with using any german translation of the word harvester for the reaper, as at first people might associate a farmhand or a harvesting machine in their head with the available words, not something that does justice to such a deadly and menacing enemy as a reaper. While the translation for reaper, Schnitter in German, might also give the picture of a medieval farmhand cutting wheat with his scythe, it is more often associated with the grim reaper and there are not many mental images that can invoke much more dread than the incarnation of Death itself, quite fitting for such a deadly alien, too. If I use a translation of harvester people might underestimate them at first, until they get in an encounter where they're cut up and transformed, but even if they do learn to fear them, the picture of a raging farmhand or an out of control harvesting machine still does not seem as doom inducing as a mental picture of antropomorphised Death.

Caesan on the other hand, on what I've done with the strings.xml, I named Caesaner in German, which is just the germanification of that race. I had similar things in mind for the other races, besides reapers and wraith, though the latter ones are giving me a bit of a headache. There are quite a few options and none of them sound too right to me, I'll have to figure out something for them.

Luckily for me, however, German is at least somewhat flexible and non-immersion breaking if I should choose to use the original English term and in some cases that might even make sense, like the Fury interceptor. While the German translation for Fury would be Furie, the picture it can and probably will create in the minds of the readers first, is the picture of a raging, hysterical woman and I don't think that this is the right picture you should have in mind, when you read about the top-tier interceptor.

There are actually many words borrowed from English, even though some words do also have a German equivalent. To download can be translated to either downloaden or runterladen in German, both words are used in an equal amount. Cool (as in awesome) has surpassed the use of the original German word geil (which can also translate to horny in English). I do enjoy have such an amount of flexibilty to use in a localization, as I am not fully confined to force everything into German, as this might even break immersion.

Other things, like leaving the Hunter scout car at the Hunter instead of the Jäger designation, it would be in german, are also reasonable. The Hunter is based on an English support vehicle chassis and since the Xenonauts are an international organisation with people from mainly (though not exclusively) English speaking countries, it would make sense that English is used as the main form of communication, therefore even soldiers from Germany might or even would use the English designations.

Well, I guess that is enough explanation for now.

[a333]

I'm personally very interested in how the organisation name will be translated in xenopedia entries. Latin based languages will suffer from this less, but russian variant is what i'm concerned of.

[Chris]

Well, OK. It was just an example, as I only speak one language. But the point still stands - it's worth thinking about what the best name would be to sum up what the alien is meant to represent, rather than just doing a literal translation.

Anyways, I'll try to finish up the early game research stuff in the next couple of weeks so you guys can work on that. We'll be doing a Steam demo that'll contain up to Wolf armour in it (so Corvette UFO) and obviously we'll need to replace all the placeholders for that. I think once that is done, the early game text shouldn't change too much.

[Chris]

Interesting point, a333 - Xenonauts is just the combination of the latin for "alien" and half the word generally associated with space travel.

So presumably the rear half of whatever the word in Russian for "cosmonaut" with the prefix for alien added. Maybe?

[Schnittertm]

I just wanted to show some of my thought processes on how I evaluate a translation of a term and if it fits or not.

While we're at it, there might be a bit of a problem of getting a localized 'End Turn' button, as it is not a text string, but a graphic, so I was wondering if your artist(s) could make one without the text on it, so we can do a translation of the button by putting in the text in something like Gimp or Photoshop. I also saw a graphic for the 'Transfer to' dialog in the Stores screen, but this one seems to be missing in the new UI (at least I couldn't see it on the pictures you posted), so a blank for that would probably not be needed. If I just missed it or if it is still used in the final UI, then a blank for that would be nice, too.

[Chris]

Yeah we can provide those when needed. I've still got the files laying about on my PC.

[Safaquel]

Omg so many points to answer.

Get back to you all in the morning, but for now...

Xenonauts = Ксенонавты, no other options make any real sense in both meaning and aestethics. It's a particular case where excess russification would only hurt perception. As for the entries, we'll have to judge by the context, but that particular translation should just about cover most cases.

And as for the Fury interceptor, trust me -- Furie is exactly the word needed. Fury even names both the emotional state and the creature in english, and comes from ancient greek, if I am not mistaken. Who are we to argue with the Ancient Greek?

[a333]

Interesting point, a333 - Xenonauts is just the combination of the latin for "alien" and half the word generally associated with space travel.

Generally, greek -naut is closer to the voyager, farer. So it means the name has another meaning, not the one you think of: "Ones who travel through alien places"

But! it sounds great, and holds the message. Evoke emotions.

I see no way to translate this message in russian fully. Equivalent word sounds pretty lame (it's the problem of the russian localisation - cool latin names, when translated literally, tend to sound stupid).

I have a proposal, though. What if we'll start from the lore? Look, it's cold war era, so we'll be probably looking from the USSR point. And there was strong and recognizable rules used in naming various secret depts. We used to have lot of secret depts.

It's logical that the USSR would not use branded name "Xenonauts", but instead some abbreviation or even letter-number code, like Department OBChS or XU-14.

[a333]

Xenonauts = Ксенонавты

We're going to have a long and difficult discussion about this one. Forgive me, i just can't stand how funny and unserious this hears in russian.

[GizmoGomez]

Is there an equivalent ridiculous sounding english word to compare it to? Forgive me, I haven't learned Russian yet. Still working on Chinese, and probably need to practice my Spanish some more before I lose it completely.

[a333]

Forgive me, I haven't learned Russian yet.

What are we, some planet overlords? you don't have to learn it, but still - thanks =)

You can use this. (listen button)

Hellish synthesizer adds a good chunk of dontgiveaf*ckness in pronunciation, but even without that it's awful for me. It sounds like some cheap cartoon hero team. May be because, like i said, russian tends not to give such names to serious departments and organisations.

It's ok in the title and main menu, where you can leave it in latin. But in documents like xenopedia research reports translator will have to use russian variant with different wordforms. You can't use latin name there without building monstruosities which are hard to read.

I'll exaggerate a little now, but it sounds like the "Super Powerful Xenonauts To The Rescue" will sound to you.

Edited April 5, 2013 by a333

[Safaquel]

With all due respect, a333, I think it's your own preconcieved ideas talking, on that particular subject.

Latinisms have long been a legitimate part of russian language; it's american comics-english that actually bastardized it all, along with shounen anime.

Also remember, that while we are talking about russian texts and translations, 'Xenonauts' is an international-project in-game, hence the designation could be virtually anything.

But by all means, I am open to suggestions if you can come up with anything better.

One thing to beware when translating -- don't let your own complexes and insecurities clowd your judgement. It's the same as 'The Fury Interceptor', which sounds perfectly fine as Перехватчик "Фурия", unless you don't know deeper meanings of the word 'fury' and see it as an equivalent to 'rage'.

Regardless Xenonauts, it's 'alien cosmonauts', and ксенонавты conveys the message perfectly, adding a little twist of humor.

And just for the sake of mentioning, you don't even want to type a standard russian name for a para-military or top-secret organization here.

You raise a somewhat valid point talking about USSR and the eighties, but don't forget that names of different USSR organizations were often quite degenerate to begin with, piling one inane shortening on top of another, arriving at, curiously, ГлавНачПУПС. They are, in many ways, waaay more hilarious and inane that the direct translation of the 'xenonauts' which caught your attention.

I propose a timeout on this particular issue until monday, when I can fully dig into the entries in detail and study the context.

P.S. Do not be overly serious. While being an overtly dark and serious-toned game, X-COM was full of allegory and parodies, which Xenonauts more or less overtook as a spiritual successor. This means some things don't have to be emulated precisely.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Safaquel

[GizmoGomez]

Haha, I like it.

But yeah, I know what you mean. Changing it to make it sound less ridiculous is a good idea.

(and just you wait until I learn Japanese, French, German, Italian, Hebrew (because why not?), Latin (again because why not?), Klingon (same reason as before), and Russian. Polish and Portuguese would be fun, too, but those would be secondary goals, not one of my primaries.)

EDIT

Sorry for getting off topic

Edited April 6, 2013 by GizmoGomez

[Safaquel]

If we could just keep the discussion to the point? Thank you.

I am against changing the game name by default. In actual entries we may have certain leeway, and there are certain phrases, in both entries and the game itself, where the word looks natural.

And I again point out that the percieved ridiculousness is in this case mostly that: percieved, not necessarily existing.

[Chris]

Incidentally, while there are mythical creatures called Furies that were similar in many ways to harpies, the interceptor was actually named after the emotional state (though the double meaning does make it sound more menacing and was a factor in the naming too). But the primary meaning is more like "rage", because it represents the fury of humanity unleashed on the aliens.

So yeah, it's important not to leap to conclusions about meanings in advance. Also, I don't want the organisation to be named anything other than the "Xenonauts" either; it should be a translation rather than a re-imagining of the lore.

[a333]

Well, good points, Safaquel.

I've followed the ways of this discussion a little to the future, then analyzed my stance, and it seems i'm in loss. Pretty sure this was just my subjective vision. Also, Chris' wish is pretty much obligatory to fulfill. Though i must note, that be it deadly serious, USSR authorities would never use such name, because of the various motives, mostly of the pride.

Also, i foresee this discussion to be raised again many times when community will expand, so it's mandatory for us to have a good groundwork under this decision.

[Safaquel]

Sure.

My old friend and I had all sorts of fun yesterday trying to translate the word 'xenonauts' into old russian, passing through "чужелазы", which is a very literal translation derived from 'aquanauts' as translated into russian, and arriving at "странноборцы" in the 'olde tongue'.

Hilarity insued, if only for some minutes.

Speaking of seriousness of the Soviet naming system, you'd actually be very surprised that the names of serious projects are in no way serious at all. We even name our missiles after trees, and pistols after birds. Anyone here want a Woodpecker fired at them?!

[Schnittertm]

Anyone here want a Woodpecker fired at them?!

Only if it has a higher fire rate than my Hitlersäge. ^^

[a333]

Hah =) "чужелазы" is getting another meaning when you remember all of the autopsies..

Speaking of seriousness of the Soviet naming system, you'd actually be very surprised that the names of serious projects are in no way serious at all. We even name our missiles after trees, and pistols after birds. Anyone here want a Woodpecker fired at them?!

Pretty serious name, i'd say. And you are mixing in weapon naming tradition, which is irrelevant to the projects and organiations.

Speaking of which i've yet to find any adequate codenames.

[Chris]

Just a quick note to say I've now organised the strings.xml alphabetically (in the last release), and will do so in future too. Sorry for screwing up any previous work but it should make things easier in future.

[Schnittertm]

Just a quick note to say I've now organised the strings.xml alphabetically (in the last release), and will do so in future too. Sorry for screwing up any previous work but it should make things easier in future.

I already noticed, however, don't worry about it. I just have to copy and paste my translations to other locations in the file and if the structuring inside the file remains similar to what the final version is intended it isn't much of a problem.