Build V18 Ground Combat Balance Discussion

[Sathra]

And alot of the higher ranks of aliens use nothing but heavy plasmas or plasma cannons (the rocket launcher equiv). Really good weapons with the only downside being only 2 levels of aim.

[GizmoGomez]

Perhaps that needs to change. If every high level alien is sporting heavy weapons that aren't supposed to be that accurate, my snipers will have a hey-day out there. While they'd appreciate the fun, I don't think it's very sporting.

[Gauddlike]

Maybe the aliens have played the original x-com and that's why they all carry heavy plasmas?

Perhaps they should have a heavy version of a selection of weapons to allow more variation.

[Sathra]

I have no idea why I typed that. While heavy plasma shows up alot for the higher ranks there is a good variation. Not sure how its selected though. Sebs and Androns would skew the viewpoint since they're the main offenders. How often the Plasma Cannon shows up scares me a little though.

[Gauddlike]

I haven't paid much attention to the distribution of enemy weapons to be honest so as long as their is enough variation, and the AI makes good use of the different types, I will be happy with that part.

Limiting the numbers of heavy weapons to be based on the number of enemies may be nice, although you do kind of expect Androns to be carting big guns around.

[Max_Caine]

Without wanting to give away too much, with most races the classes of alien beyond non-com are split into standard and support sub-classes. Furthermore, both sub-classes can be set up with multiple equipment types which (as far as I can tell) the game randomises as part of mission set-up. Added into the mix are racial preferences - Sebillians and Androns like heavy weapons as both of them can take a lickin' and still keep kickin'. Caesans like longer-ranged weapons because they can't. And so on. The full range of plasma weaponry is introduced with the landing-ship, which, surprise surprise, is the ship most likely to carry out terror missions and base attacks.

[Shima]

Is there any limit to how far you can throw a grenade? I've been able to throw several grenades in a row over good half of terror mission map and land them precisely where I aimed (target reticle told me I have 1% hit chance).

[thothkins]

"Aliens terrorizing Mumbai!? Let's go! ... What? We won't arrive until after Dark? Turn the Charlie around. Forget that, nuke 'em."

Yup.Second that. Night missions have that fear factor back.

As Max_Caine says, the files do suggest pretty good alien weapon distribution.

[crusherven]

If it were up to me, I'd hard code a range cap into grenades (based on strength) rather than just making them less accurate at longer ranges. I'd also make them a little more accurate at short range. Frag grenades are particularly weak, and take 32 time units to throw when both hands are full (always). For all that, they're not a guaranteed kill against anything. Can they at least be reasonably accurate?

[thothkins]

yeah, tying it to strength makes a lot of sense. However, the strength exploit will soon make your Xenonauts look like Steroid Enhanced Soviet Shot Putters form the '70s. Since that's when the game is based, perhaps that's somewhere the game could recruit from.

[Shima]

What exploit? Having 90-100 strength on all of my team after about 25 battles is completely normal. They just excercise a lot in between missions But seriously, the soldiers level up like mad. +1/2 TU, ST and resilience after nearly every mission makes them superhuman fast. Still, having one of my superhumans completely disintegrate after being hit by plasma cannon was fun! Just a bit of blood and destroyed pieces of equipment were left on the ground. Excellent!

And yeah, the frag grenades are quite underwhelming when it comes to damage. I ignored the hit chance when throwing because its quite messed up on most occasions (I get a lot of 0% where I don't think I should) and then I was surprised it managed to land precisely where I wanted few times in a row.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Shima

[Assoonasitis]

yeah, tying it to strength makes a lot of sense. However, the strength exploit will soon make your Xenonauts look like Steroid Enhanced Soviet Shot Putters form the '70s. Since that's when the game is based, perhaps that's somewhere the game could recruit from.

Step 1: Load a soldier with as much crap as you can without sacrificing too many TUs. Maybe 3-4 kg over his max weight.

Step 2: Run missions until he is able to carry everything you've given him with no penalties.

Step 3: Return to Step 1 and watch as his strength sky-rockets and he becomes able to outrun an LAV in very short order.

[Assoonasitis]

Step 1: Load a soldier with as much crap as you can without sacrificing too many TUs. Maybe 3-4 kg over his max weight.

Step 2: Run missions until he is able to carry everything you've given him with no penalties.

Step 3: Return to Step 1 and watch as his strength sky-rockets and he becomes able to outrun an LAV in very short order.

Step 4 (optional): Rename him "Beefbrick Musclearms" because that's an awesome name.

[thothkins]

I like to rename them as banned athletes. Just pick the appropriate country from the list to match the Xeno-background.

[Max_Caine]

The only thing that doesn't go up too quick is accuracy. You have to shoot at a lot of aliens for accuracy to go up, and I've tried, but haven't found an exploit yet. Banging away with a pistol sounded a good idea at first, right up to the point where the squaddie was turned into a greasy stain on the ground.

[Shima]

Unable to enter UFO and turn off roof on it

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2009[/ATTACH]

This happens every time you load a game inside tactical mission. I've encountered this with light scout, scout and corvette so far. I usually can enter them afterwards, but the roof doesn't dissapear and aliens see me and shoot at me through walls of the ufo. And you can't shoot the aliens back, because when you mouseover them, the aiming reticle targets whole ufo instead of the alien and your bullets fly to the northest corner of the ufo. But I managed to kill those bastards by aiming behind the ufo and putting them in trajectory of my bullets

So only way to not get this bug is abstain from loading during missions. Which gives my savescumming nature a big headache

[crusherven]

My heavies tend to gain accuracy quite quickly. I'm not sure if it's just because I use them a lot or if auto-firing counts as multiple shots in the exp formula.

[Gauddlike]

It could be range based.

I vaguely remember something about only gaining accuracy when you fire at enemies within the weapons range (could be wrong though).

As the ballistic MG has a 40 tile range that would mean anything you fire at is likely to give you the reward while most other weapons, like the AR with 16 range, may be firing from too far away to give a bonus some of the time.

I think strength would only have a minimal impact on throwing range for an item that is pretty light to start with.

Rather than a pure strength based range I would go for a set range with a small bonus for high strength.

For example 10 tile range with a bonus tile at 70, 85 and 100 strength.

Not a big enough bonus to make training strength 'essential' for grenades.

[Shima]

I'd say 10 tile range for grenades is way too short. I'd go with 15-18 + bonus for strength (up to 20 tiles total).

[Assoonasitis]

I'd say 10 tile range for grenades is way too short. I'd go with 15-18 + bonus for strength (up to 20 tiles total).

I dunno. Grenades are silly-weak so if I wanna have them be ineffectual across the map from me, you should let me do that.

[Shima]

I think that boosting grenade damage won't be too difficult

[Gauddlike]

If range was reduced then I think it would be natural that a damage increase could be used to balance them.

There is already a thread about grenade ranges though so feel free to chip in over there if you have any suggestions.

[crusherven]

I'd rather have a grenade that can kill stuff at close range (like in a ship) than one I can heave across the map and tickle them.

[Shima]

Ok, I'll go ramble in that thread instead.

Are alien base assault missions polished in any way? I'm not able to find anything about this on the forums. I just had my first assault. I got there by night, so visibility was low and the creepy music kept me on my toes (not sure how the mission goes when you visit at day). Also the base was completely empty... Except for the command room, where I found 20 caesans and 3 medium drones waiting for me in defensive positions. I'm not sure how to tackle that situation. After opening the door and unloading everything I had at them they just killed me in their turn. And after loading last save in front of the door and spending my turn to prepare for them they just shot me through the door and the game locked up during their turn. Damned bugs.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Shima

[Assoonasitis]

I'd like an M32 Hammer, personally.