Are wraith overtuned/too strong?

[Bookshelf11]

Just failed a terror mission and lost the game at day 270 because I failed a andron/wraith terror mission. My guys got absolutely slaughtered by wraiths, even taking on cruisers full of fusion gun lizards at worst, only net me 2 dead troops. The sheer amount of grenades around corner and out of sight lines when they get close combined with them being extremely hard to kill at range makes it where there is no safe when it comes to them. My dropship of 10 troops and 2 rovers, all clad in guardian armour with fusion guns never stood a chance, androns I don't think even got a single kill.

Every alien has a counter to a degree, Sebillian are tanky but suck at long range combat, Androns are tanky but have low hp and seem to neglect cover like they did in 1 and also EMP damage, Secton/Psyons are dangerous when together but keep em separate and they're easier to deal with, Reapers are extremely dangerous up close but have no ranged ability and take hardly any cover.

Wraiths however don't really have a drawback, yeah they only have 90 health but when you can't hit them they can take far more shots to actually down, at close range they use grenades whenever they can even at single troops which also destroys both armour and weapons so that hurts even more, if you get out of grenade range they can still really hurt you with plasma and now you can't actually hit them and even if you get close enough to flashbang them the flashbang doesn't actually break their cloak. Alone they're pretty dangerous but in the numbers they get deployed at, they're easily the most dangerous and most expensive in terms of replacing gear to fight. 

[Chris]

23 minutes ago, Bookshelf11 said:

Just failed a terror mission and lost the game at day 270 because I failed a andron/wraith terror mission. My guys got absolutely slaughtered by wraiths, even taking on cruisers full of fusion gun lizards at worst, only net me 2 dead troops. The sheer amount of grenades around corner and out of sight lines when they get close combined with them being extremely hard to kill at range makes it where there is no safe when it comes to them. My dropship of 10 troops and 2 rovers, all clad in guardian armour with fusion guns never stood a chance, androns I don't think even got a single kill.

Every alien has a counter to a degree, Sebillian are tanky but suck at long range combat, Androns are tanky but have low hp and seem to neglect cover like they did in 1 and also EMP damage, Secton/Psyons are dangerous when together but keep em separate and they're easier to deal with, Reapers are extremely dangerous up close but have no ranged ability and take hardly any cover.

Wraiths however don't really have a drawback, yeah they only have 90 health but when you can't hit them they can take far more shots to actually down, at close range they use grenades whenever they can even at single troops which also destroys both armour and weapons so that hurts even more, if you get out of grenade range they can still really hurt you with plasma and now you can't actually hit them and even if you get close enough to flashbang them the flashbang doesn't actually break their cloak. Alone they're pretty dangerous but in the numbers they get deployed at, they're easily the most dangerous and most expensive in terms of replacing gear to fight. 

Yeah, I think they are. You're not the only person saying this. They're not meant to be spamming grenades everywhere; I think one of our recent AI upgrades made them realise how effective grenades were and now they're throwing them everywhere.

I'm going to set it up so not every Wraith has a grenade any more, which should make them manageable.

[Bookshelf11]

15 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, I think they are. You're not the only person saying this. They're not meant to be spamming grenades everywhere; I think one of our recent AI upgrades made them realise how effective grenades were and now they're throwing them everywhere.

I'm going to set it up so not every Wraith has a grenade any more, which should make them manageable.

Making flashbangs, or rather the electroshock flashbang upgrade remove their cloak would help too. Big struggle I found is in order to shut down them launching hot potato's at people, flashbangs were my best bet since supressing via bursts is too unreliable against their cloak but the flash leaves their cloak still active, meaning that they'd still be a absolute menace to actually put down for good to the degree that sometimes I'd just throw a explosive grenade at them as well if I could to guarantee the cloak dropping. Ironically the best counter to grenades being thrown at you, is grenades being thrown at them. 

Edited July 5, 2024 by Bookshelf11

[Rakiii]

It seems they are also very accurate even on long range or through covers (both with weapons and grenades).

I would nerf their accu by 20% for weapons and more for grenades (they also place a grenade on me with pinpoint accuracy)

Is it also possible to make grenades dealing damage based on proximity?

[Conductiv]

they are dangerous in offense mainly, they have solid reflexes, decent TU so good speed, good accuracy and they spam grenades over a good distance, rendering cover and smoke moot

but counter wise they have the most straightforward option, any explosive damage on them will break the cloak, removing their long range defense, and..depending on the explosive ..any cover they might have had, and grenades/rockets launched/thrown at the ground near them conveniently ignore the cloak defenses and tend to work well on their unarmored bodies usually softening them up to within 1 shot range. if encountered up close the cloak becomes a non-issue, so shotgun rushes with or without flashbang support are an option as well. 

guardian armor might need an upgrade to it that allows it to endure fusion weapons though, as the first power armor tech you get isn't viable for every squad member. and fusion weapons have high 1 shot potential even on veteran soldiers in heavy guardian armor. and once cruisers start appearing, guardian tech will already be several months old.

personally I feel electroshock grenades are already extremely strong and don't need another niche use, its a flashbang, stungrenade and botkiller grenade in one.