thothkins Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 You can easily adjust the cash amount from sales in the assets folder, if you feel the desperate need for cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiorob Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 But, first you must have any items to sale ( from ground battle: no cash, no items)! And this is not the right solution and there is no fun to cheat. We want playble alfa or beta game (17.6 with hotfix was more playable). Solution is to solve this and other new bugs (And in 17.9 there is a lot of them!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 So your solution is to have a perfectly balanced and stable build immediately? I'm afraid that comes as a result of the testing, rather than as a requirement to test it (otherwise what would you be testing?) And if there's no cash or items from the Light Scouts, you're also not losing any troops in the battle so you're not losing anything from it. Anyway, put your balance comments in this thread please: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4191-Build-V17-9-Balance-Discussion?p=53598 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Now cash from ground battle ( not all battles, but about 50% I read the above as you "Now" get 50% of cash form battles. I take it you mean that you get No cash from 50% of the battles. Still, tweaking the sell amounts would balance it somewhat to compensate. Alpha builds are there to test, so you're not cheating the game. Although if you were altering huge amounts, then the value of the testing would decrease. If you can't get to the later stages, how are you going to test them, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiorob Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 If you can't get to the later stages, how are you going to test them, after all. How??? The problem is that version 17.9 less playable for alfa testing in comparison to 17.6, lot of bugs. And always problem with saving game. This is old bug and still not solved. Why developer/programer did not tested this basic function of game before lanching new version? See the forum how many testers and how often describe this problem. First, please, resolve basic problem with saving/loading than others. Without this funcition (working properly), testing is difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcari Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Chris, what have you done to us! Game is now... ...actually hard! Fixed that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiorob Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 ...actually hard!Fixed that for you It is not fixed for me. I mean that bugs make version 17.9 very hard to play. Save are corrupted, ground battles ..... , no fun, 1 turn, the end, no cash no items. The high accuracy of alien` shot and high price for "basic" armor ( at the begining, there is not any armor, clothes are not basic armor, even any camouflage ) and description of items are only things to discussion. They are only small beer ( polish dictum: małe piwo -> it means small or very small problem). Yes this is still alfa but please make this alfa game friendly for users/testers: solve problem with saving/loading (basic function of any game, this is not era of 8-bit computers with tape player, where there were not any possibility to save game ). We can play this game 24h and every day. We must sometimes save and end the game. Now it is like draw (Lotto, roulette), sometimes work, sometimes not and in 17.9 often no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel1981 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Just express how pleased I am with the advances on the AI - finally a challenge in each mission. That first light scout when one of the 3 Caeaeans flanked me caught me completely by surprise. Another one of them actually had the brains to escape a confrontation with 3 of my men. In another mission I had 3 of my men and a HWP slaughtered by two Sebillians. Let the slaughter begin *maniacl laughter goes here* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I HATE DESURA. WTF is it with it that it downlaods for hours and then suddenly stops and doesn't finish... and you have to do it all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windex Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) I have to agree somewhat with Radiorob, regarding the crashes and corrupts saves. I think you should slow down a bit with adding features and polish and focus more on the ground crashes (especially in hidden movement and enemy turn). This has been going on since the first builds about two years ago. You can't even test the game when its crashing and corrupting the saves so you can't even progress far enough to see how the other missions and features are working. If this problem isn't fixed and all the other minor bugs people are complaining about and features are, then there is really no point in a beta or post beta. I usually play up until I see the first ground crash/corrupt save rears its ugly head and then wait till the next build and usually lately that's no further than 3 to 5 ground battles. This last build (17.6) when it froze in GC I would go to my desk top and just close the game out in the tool bar but eventually the save got corrupt. I have reported this ever since it first appeared and after repeatedly. Lately I see so many reports of this in the bug thread I see no point in mentioning it, I can only hope it will be fix next build. I'm afraid that the more that is added to the game with enemy AI, multiple crash sites, new maps and whatever the harder its going to be to fix this game breaking bug and maybe impossible at some point without the developers going completely crazy first. This might not be the case but I've seen some games developed from start to finish that crashed and froze and had various other bugs that after being finished continued to crash and freeze and were patched so many times till the developers gave up realizing it was impossible to fix and either considered starting a new engine or completely abandoned the whole project leaving the engine code for modders who wanted to give a stab at it. All this said I think its shaping up to be a really nice game with great potential. The AI can be quite deadly, and some of the maps are really nicely designed and laid out and have a nice aesthetic look to them- heck I was looking at a truck that looked almost as though you took it directly from a photo. But even from an Alpha tester stand point I can't stop worrying if that game ending crash/save corrupt will ever be fixed. Edited March 16, 2013 by windex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windex Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) Seems Chris lists the minor bug fixes and requested features but only all the minor bugs(not the major ground crash bug) that many here seem to be bothered by as fixed then everyone gets excited while waiting for it to be released, then it is released and everyone is happy with it dismissing the unfixed crash/save bug (for a while till they have it crash and it corrupts again.) Funny thing is a lot of people in this forum are acting as if everything is fine that there is no problem on their end with this Crash/save corrupt bug just minor bugs like that they want fixed. I know this is a problem for everyone who has the current build. You all have a work around that works for this? No, I don't think so. Edited March 16, 2013 by windex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Well, if you think about it, there are many, Many crash bugs, corrupted save bugs, etc. They all simply have the same symptoms. You all are complaining about not fixing the "crash bug", but they have fixed innumerable crash bugs already. They just haven't found all of them yet. How are they going to find them, unless we as testers experience them first? Instead of saying, "Fix the game so we can test it," we should be saying, "This is the circumstance of my crash. This is what happened." That way, come next build, those crash bugs will be squashed and we can move on to squashing more bugs that pop up with new features. Since the new features are going to be implemented anyway, we may as well get them implemented now and get to fixing all the bugs they create now, so we can have more time balancing and tweaking things later. Oh, and Windex, I've had maybe one save get corrupted in the last two versions, and I've had only a couple crashes (both from trying that one corrupted save). It's not a super huge problem for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erutan Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I think people are missing what an alpha testing phase is. The entire point of an Alpha is to add features, the game is in active development. Builds are posted for people to try out and give feedback, but in no way are they meant to be playable. If the game didn't have fatal bugs it'd be a very rare alpha. Even beta games are expected to crash to desktop, and they are more or less feature complete (or at least adding new features at a slower rate as balance/polish dictates). I doubt there's one "crash in combat" bug over two years, there have been many of them and most of them have been fixed. When you're developing complex software, new bugs get introduced. To focus on stability vs features would greatly lengthen development time (this is something which has already happened to a certain extent, but that's a downside of preorder funding). I realize it can be frustrating as this build was released as more "playable" but they're not going to spend weeks testing every alpha build, that time needs to be in development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 We will look into fixing the bugs, particularly whatever save / load error there currently is. But it does help if people just mention the bugs that are affecting them rather than complaining the game is buggy in general, and have some sense of proportion. If save / load just doesn't work for you at all, that is a major bug. In that case, a response like "The changes are nice but without save /load working on the Geoscape or Ground Combat, I can't really play the game" is great as it tells me everything we need to know. Saying the game is unplayable because of (for example) this UFO bug that means Sebillian Light Scouts don't have a crew is an overreaction. It means that 50% of missions against one particular type of UFO don't have enemies in them, which is a bit weird but doesn't really affect gameplay at all. It is a minor bug. The idea of the alpha is to get the gameplay features in, the idea of the beta is to get a playable game. Fixing up all the bugs before all the features are done is a waste of time because every time you add a new feature it just breaks a load of existing systems again. I know we have to balance that off against having a reasonably playable game for people that have pre-ordered but we're always going to err on the side of development rather than bugfixing. So until we hit beta, you shouldn't be surprised if a new build is less stable than the last. That's what happens when you add stuff. Also, save / load is one of the most complex parts of the game as it has to record literally everything in the game. It's the least stable system as EVERYTHING is linked to it, so every time we make an update it effects save / load too. That's why there's so many issues with it, and once we stop adding new features it should be more stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yddraiggoch Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Having problems even launching the game after the latest update. I try to launch via Desura, get the Win7 'Blue Circle' then... nothing. The Xenonauts process still runs in the background. I have killed the process and tried again, no luck. Help please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windex Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) gotta say GizmoGomez if you've only had a couple of crashes and you are playing the same game I don't think you played it to far or for very long to only get a couple of crashes out of those two versions. Or maybe your just not admitting you had as much of a problem as I did with lockups crashes and corrupts and everyone else including those who don't want to admit it. As for all the different kinds of crashes and their different causes, there are just a couple that happen and always in the same incidents and have been for very long, way back to earlier builds-this is my concern. As for it being alpha I know full well what that means and that isn't my point. Edited March 16, 2013 by windex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windex Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) So then Chris you are saying all the gameplay features should go in first then you fix the crash bugs. Every time you add a new feature it breaks something? Yeah, I've heard this before and that seems to be the way it is done by most in software and game developers. I just hope after most of the features are added it doesn't become too impossible to find the broken line in all those functions and commands. ie fix one thing and another breaks "The idea of the alpha is to get the gameplay features in, the idea of the beta is to get a playable game." alright then Oh, I am not worried about having a reasonably playable game during alpha. I did agree to it having bugs for me to identify bugs. This is after all a work in progress,a game in development and I am a tester and bug detector for a game I hope later will be pretty much crash/save corrupt free at least one that I can complete a full game in when it is finished and that is what I am concerned with not with what we have now. Edited March 16, 2013 by windex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Yraiggoch - I've asked the guy that coded the launcher to look into that, it's not happening on any of the dev systems but a number of people seem to be affected by it. Hopefully it'll be fixed in the next few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinetree Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Having problems even launching the game after the latest update. I try to launch via Desura, get the Win7 'Blue Circle' then... nothing. The Xenonauts process still runs in the background. I have killed the process and tried again, no luck. Help please? How much time do you give it? I found it can take quite a while to load on my system. If you watch in Task Manager, it will load when it gets to 40,000k or so in memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yddraiggoch Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Yraiggoch - I've asked the guy that coded the launcher to look into that, it's not happening on any of the dev systems but a number of people seem to be affected by it. Hopefully it'll be fixed in the next few days. Cheers Chris, appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erutan Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 There have been alpha releases that were solely bug fixes. It's not like Chris is ignoring stability or refusing to fix a single bug for the alpha, it's just not the priority at this point in the process. Alphas are supposed to crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yddraiggoch Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 How much time do you give it? I found it can take quite a while to load on my system. If you watch in Task Manager, it will load when it gets to 40,000k or so in memory. Gave it a reasonable amount of time - maybe 30 seconds? The strange thing was that the launcer came up once - when I first started 17.9, but it's totally failed to appear since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 yddraiggoch, have you checked the end of this thread? The problem I had with it was incorrect codecs. (Of course, now I have another problem, but hey!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiga4ever Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Last time I played 2 months ago. I was really surprised with this released A lot of excellent tweaks. Great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Windex, Admittedly, I haven't played tons of the game. I have more things to do then to test this game. However, what I have played hasn't been bogged down with crashes or game-killing bugs, or the like. Maybe it gets much worse as time goes on (that seems to be the general sentiment), but for what I've played, it's not been bad at all. Anyway, Chris, do you know of any kind of ETA for a Mac build of v17.9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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