Base Simplification Ideas

[RawCode]

more sientists you assign to project faster it shoud go and more it shoud cost, sientist salary shoud be included into cost of research.

1 - 10 days 1000 credits

2 - 9 days 2000 credits

10 - 1 day 10000 credits

Soo if you distribute all your tech points over projects it will result in slow and cheap development, if you decide to focus, it will result in same total time, but will cost much more.

[TrashMan]

That way, we can start researching immediately without losing the ability to have any number of scientists we want.

If we keep the LQ, then there's no need for this ability anyway.

True, you can hire more scientists as long as you have living space available, regardless if you have a finished lab or not.

I think it takes 1-2 days for them to arrive (I like such latencies. They feel real), so as long as you hire them a day before the new lab is complete, they should arrive just as it is finished.

[TrashMan]

The cost to research would represent the (implied) scientist's wages while the actual scientists are never hired and don't show up on any statistic.

Without that system, the scientist's wages would have to be rolled into building maintenance which would make those buildings extraordinarily expensive if nothing is researched.

The player would still have the option to put research on hold and only pay the building upkeep without paying for the scientists.

That eliminates the need for an entirely new interface to "shut down" a building.

It's the exact same thing as right now. Same cost, same choices - only with less clicking.

Except you are burdened with a fixed number of scinentists.

If a lab holds 10 scientists and you put only 1 working on the project, and 9 idling, you still pay full price in your system - becasue the cost is tied to active research/the building and not scientists.

[TrashMan]

I like the idea of the SOTS system but is it practical to implement developerwise?

Should be..

It requires no new UI or anything.

Just a change in the research calculations (and two messages to pop up on screen)

Basicly, let's say a 5% chance each turn after research passes 50% that breaktrough happens. If breaktroguh happens, finish researhc and display "Your scientists make an amazing breaktrough".

Also a 20% chance as it reaches (and passes) 100% to still not be finished. If 100% is passed and research is not done display "Research has gone overbudget" message.

If 150% is reached, research is auto-completed.

Would add tension and uncertanty. Immagine a project (let's say Wolf Armor) that normally takes 10 days begin completed in 6, just in time for you to produce 2 suits before that terror mission. Or the other way around, the research you were so counting on going overbudget.

[KOKON]

Living Quarters to be abolished, replaced with Barracks that can hold 8 soldiers each.

I dont like this idea so much that i'm stop reading this futher.

[Gauddlike]

Maybe you should read further, or at least post why you have such a strong dislike of the idea.

Stamping your feet and holding your breath accomplishes far less than a reasoned debate.

[HWP]

@Gazz - I thought that we were assuming kind-hearted scientists who were donating their time and expertise in order to avoid total annihilation of the human race. If they want to make $60 an hour off that, then there's something wrong. (Maybe not, what I'd do is different then what everyone else'd do.)

If the world is going to hell - like hell you'll see me working for free.

So you say the money won't matter if the world ends? Fine, then you'll have no need for it unless I help you save it. So pass it on to me, it's a win-win for you: if I fail, it's worthless, if I succeed, better to be out some cash than an alien slave.

If you can't even spare a meager Ben an hour, what are your chances of saving the world? Right. So me too, you know. I'll spend my last days having fun too. See you in Fiji.

[ooey]

...And you can always build defence turrets in the non-military bases.

A la Rebelstar? Excellent - although the never did anything in Rebelstar for the defenders! If destroyed, the attackers would get reinforced though...

[GizmoGomez]

If the world is going to hell - like hell you'll see me working for free.

So you say the money won't matter if the world ends? Fine, then you'll have no need for it unless I help you save it. So pass it on to me, it's a win-win for you: if I fail, it's worthless, if I succeed, better to be out some cash than an alien slave.

If you can't even spare a meager Ben an hour, what are your chances of saving the world? Right. So me too, you know. I'll spend my last days having fun too. See you in Fiji.

I wasn't saying that money wouldn't matter in the game, in fact it does matter, as you still have to buy things, like planes, hunters, etc. After the world is already over, ie aliens kill us all, or enslave us, then money would be useless and not matter, yes.

I was just trying to say that if I were a scientist, I would donate my time. Provided I get food, a place to sleep, and (ideally) a gameboy color with a couple good games, I'd be good.

Obviously (and I mentioned this) I'm the minority here.

I just don't see why people would require something like money as an incentive to assist when all of humanity was at stake. Sure, you sold the Xenonauts a few planes for 200K each, but when they fail due to not having enough planes (or not having enough money to buy something else from someone like you, who charges to help), and the earth gets overrun with the enemy, is that money going to be useful?

These are just my personal views, I'm not advocating changing anything in game or anything. Capitalism is great and all, best system out there at the moment, but if it's between making a few extra bucks and letting humanity die (because you refused to let people use your resources without payment), and taking a loss but helping to save the human race, I'd pick the latter. I dunno about anyone else.

[Gauddlike]

But then when the aliens get bored and bomb us back into the stone age we would have all of this lovely paper to help us light fires in our caves.

[radister]

But then when the aliens get bored and bomb us back into the stone age we would have all of this lovely paper to help us light fires in our caves.

but my money is all online.....i want this lovely paper too!

[ooey]

You can explain the money thing away by saying that the majority of the world doesn't believe we are being invaded by aliens - the layman would think as we do today - that aliens are possibly visiting us just out of curiosity.

Of course, there would be stories of abduction and death at the hands of aliens (just like there are today), but the vast majority of the population would not have first hand account of this until it was too late.

Ignorance is bliss!

[GizmoGomez]

I thought that the entire world knew about them. But whatever. I really don't need an explanation, as it is ultimately a game. If it were happening in actuality, though, I'd wonder why common sense had been replaced by the desire for common cents.

(See what I did there? )

[Nhathuy]

[2] Living Quarters to be abolished, replaced with Barracks that can hold 8 soldiers each.

[3] Laboratories / Workshops will hold 10 scientists / engineers, hired immediately on construction.

[4] Scientists and Engineers no longer have any monthly wages and do not fill living space.

My 2 cents:

1/ Retain living quarters, but change the space occupied by soldier from 1 to 4 (or any numbers you seem fit). It will greatly limit the number of soldiers that each base can house, just like your intention. In addition, living quarters should have a limited ability to heal and train soldiers (if training is available in game). Healing ability must be only limited to minor wounds, so if some of your guys have part of their brains blown off, you'd better send them to somewhere with real Medical Facility.

2/ Laboratories/Workshops will hold 20 people. The first 10 will be hired immediately after construction and take residence at their workplace. The other 10 must be hired manually, and will live at Living Quarters. However, if Living Quarters are full, they will sleep (and eat and stuff) with their fellow eggheads, which will incur "Overcrowded" penalty and reduce overall efficiency of that said facilities. The more people you cram in one place, the greater the penalty.

Formula for penalty:

Penalty = [1]Total penalty by overcrowding / [2]Number of facilities

[1]The first "overcrowded" personal will incur the base penalty of 5%

Any "overcrowded" personal after will incur additional 2%

So if your laboratories are overloaded by 4 people, the total penalty will be:

5% + (5% + 2%) + (5% + 2% + 2%) + (5% + 2% + 2% + 2%)

= 5% + 7% + 9% + 11%

= 32%

[2]Number of facilities refers to how many laboratories/workshops do you currently have

Example:

If your base has 3 laboratories and 2 "overcrowded" people, 4 workshops and 5 "overloaded" grunts, then the penalty for:

- All laboratories: 12% from total penalty / 3 = 4% reduced efficiency

- All workshops: 45% from total penalty / 4 = 11% reduced efficiency

In case there is available space in Living Quarters (due to the sudden death of some unlucky red shirts), the facilities with the most heavy penalty will have the privilege of locating their surplus members to that free space first, until their penalty is lesser or equal to their counterparts. If laboratories and workshops have the same penalty, priority will be given to workshops (don't ask me why, I just prefer engineers to scientists).

Example:

Take the example above. The workshops will have the priority to allocate their grunts first because their penalty is greater. Therefore, their "overcrowded" people go down from 5 to 2, at which point the laboratories will take over and free their eggheads. The process will continue until no more "overcrowded" personal is found, or no more free space is available.

If you decide to hire more soldiers while all spaces are occupied, the non-com personal will have to move away. The least "overcrowded" facilities, or laboratories, will be forced to accept more tenants.

However, it's still possible to manually allocate your men. So if the you want to give the eggheads more breathing space, and piss those annoying engineers, you should still be able to do it.

3/ Scientist and engineers should also have monthly wage. It creates a cost curve, and combines with the diminishing utility of additional personal (if you don't have enough space to accommodate them), you have yourself a beautiful supply-demand diagram. Did I mention that the next employee you hire should cost you more the previous?

[ooey]

I thought that the entire world knew about them. But whatever. I really don't need an explanation, as it is ultimately a game.

Yes - I forgot to mention the fact that it is actually only a game (I thought everyone knew that already ;-)). But if you need an explanation then there it is...

[HWP]

The above suggestion really sounds overthought.

How about keeping it simpler?

Soldiers are assigned to each base and transportable as usual.

Scientists and engineers each form a common pool across all bases.

On any base, only as many sci+eng can work simultaneously as its living space minus the number of soldiers.

Scientist assignment is common between bases like projects are, auto-filling available space.

Gets rid of a lot of staff micromanagement while keeping this important consideration for base design.

[TrashMan]

Living quarters = for scientists and workers

Barracks = for soldiers

Solders are different that regular civies after all. Makes sense that they have a separate room/building.

[GizmoGomez]

The above suggestion really sounds overthought.

How about keeping it simpler?

Soldiers are assigned to each base and transportable as usual.

Scientists and engineers each form a common pool across all bases.

On any base, only as many sci+eng can work simultaneously as its living space minus the number of soldiers.

Scientist assignment is common between bases like projects are, auto-filling available space.

Gets rid of a lot of staff micromanagement while keeping this important consideration for base design.

So, you are advocating making it so that if I were to be researching something in Brazil, I could turn around and research something in Tibet the instant the previous research is over? Same thing with technicians?

I don't really like that idea as much as having local scientists and techies. Too unrealistic and simplistic for my tastes.

[HWP]

Living quarters = for scientists and workers

Barracks = for soldiers

Solders are different that regular civies after all. Makes sense that they have a separate room/building.

Not sure if there is any reason. The military employs plenty of both, some as officers, some outright as civilians.

The only special arrangements made (on vessels in particular) are normally simply not sharing the exact same bunk racks.

Both are human, why would one need different quarters than the other. More to the point, consider that in gameplay terms it would mean the quarters for one can't ever house the other, and that's just wrong.

So, you are advocating making it so that if I were to be researching something in Brazil, I could turn around and research something in Tibet the instant the previous research is over? Same thing with technicians?

Not quite. As it is, your research *already* happens simultaneously in Brazil and Tibet, so it doesn't matter where the scientists are.

The only change a common pool brings is you don't have to micromanage them on every base, just assign them globally. The availability of living+lab slots limiting you automatically.

Considering that simplification is coming either way, this is a lot better than sleeping on autopsy tables and conveyor belts or having magical built-in quarters that can only ever house people of a specific profession and never anyone else.

[GizmoGomez]

Well, it's not necessarily a perfect system. What if you bring a corpse to tibet, research it, then research a plasma rifle that got recovered to brazil gets researched by the same people? Do the items you recover from crash sites get evenly distributed among bases as well?

[TrashMan]

Not sure if there is any reason. The military employs plenty of both, some as officers, some outright as civilians.

The only special arrangements made (on vessels in particular) are normally simply not sharing the exact same bunk racks.

Both are human, why would one need different quarters than the other. More to the point, consider that in gameplay terms it would mean the quarters for one can't ever house the other, and that's just wrong.

No, that's just right. They shouldn't mix. Barracks are for more than just beds.

More buildings = good. More decisions to make = good.

Also, vessels are NOT the same as bases. Vessels are fixed and you really got no choice, since you won't be adding extra rooms in your ship. Not to mention that if there is sharing, usually civies get put in the same room.

[Thomas]

Just my $.02 I think the current implementation works pretty well. The play is constrained to not build like crazy due to funding and the micromanagement is not excessive for me anyways. The quote "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. There are many more important features to look at IMHO. Thanks.

[HWP]

No, that's just right. They shouldn't mix. Barracks are for more than just beds.

And other staff doesn't need more than just beds - they don't shower, feed from a 120V outlet, spend their off-watch standing motionless?

To the extent that your organization is military (or not), everyone in it is equally so. Most servicemen in real-life militaries don't run around with rifles and helmets, they work in what you can call operations, management, data processing, logistics, R&D.

Perhaps frontline troops (i.e. your soldiers) would need extra training space, but you can't do much more than basic PT in a small underground base. And it doesn't take a special building, it takes clearing out a wardroom. Use 2 quarters slots for soldiers instead of one, problem solved. Or you could add a training center, but since training is out of the game, that won't make sense.

Also, vessels are NOT the same as bases. Vessels are fixed and you really got no choice, since you won't be adding extra rooms in your ship.

This applies even to vessels purpose-built to be operated by a mix of military and civilian crew and staff. Naval living quarters (and an underground base, being space-constrained, has to follow navy's example) are really simple, corridors with bed bunks, there's not much to differentiate.

[TrashMan]

The scientist AREN'T military.

They are the best experts in the world brought up to deal with alien tech.

Either way, I don't want to see Living Quarters removed.

[HWP]

They are the best experts in the world brought up to deal with alien tech.

And that's exactly why they are treated as nameless drones bought and sold in bulk.