Instant Pre-order

[Gauddlike]

Crap!

No that one is free for everyone...

I really don't want to know if that's a euphemism for something...

That is quite a disturbing thought, 9 out of 10, well done.

[Betuor]

I really don't want to know if that's a euphemism for something...

Rule 8: Don't ask, don't tell.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Rule 9: If in doubt, get Jeeves to lead civilians to the refractory purifictorum.

[Betuor]

Rule 10: Never, and I mean NEVER on any occasion, doubt a Buddhist Civillan's ability to inflict self harm.

[GoodGuyEddy]

They are all lying to you.

The first rule is: Never expect sanity.

[Gorlom]

They are all lying to you.

The first rule is: Never expect sanity.

That is not rule one. That is the unwritten rule zero! You are supposed to discover that one on your own.

Besides it is more of a suggestion then a rule. You could expect some sanity in Thothkins posts. but you'd better expect a peculiar kind of sanity. the kind that is so sane that its off the scale and meeting with insanity on the other side around.

(I think I got that from how Terry Pratchett describes some special coffee mix in one of the discworkd novels, the scale being drunk and sober)

[mordenkien]

rule 11: NEVER EVER start a debate with gorlom...xenomask or hwp

[mordenkien]

That is not rule one. That is the unwritten rule zero! You are supposed to discover that one on your own.

Besides it is more of a suggestion then a rule. You could expect some sanity in Thothkins posts. but you'd better expect a peculiar kind of sanity. the kind that is so sane that its off the scale and meeting with insanity on the other side around.

(I think I got that from how Terry Pratchett describes some special coffee mix in one of the discworkd novels, the scale being drunk and sober)

secret comments nice

its scary that i followed that..

[thothkins]

"Besides it is more of a suggestion then a rule. You could expect some sanity in Thothkins posts. but you'd better expect a peculiar kind of sanity. the kind that is so sane that its off the scale and meeting with insanity on the other side around."

That's a new signature right there. But, if I put up a signature about me, that would be narcissistic. So instead, I took a screen shot. Printed it on cardstock. Laminated it. Built a hinged cage that fits snugly around my monitor. Put the laminated card in the cage. Then, whenever I see one of my posts in a thread I can just lower the cage in front of the screen and the signature can sit in front of the one you can all see. Heh, and you'll never know, you'll neve....ah, rats...

(that's OK. Not many people will have spotted the text. In fact, you can only read this if you can see the colour of magic.)

[a333]

‏‏

[Gorlom]

‏‏

How did you post without anythin in the post? not even any secret message in white?

mlrdenkien: I expect that you have come in contact with the concept before and thusly have no problem following my shortened version?

Edited January 19, 2013 by Gorlom

[a333]

not even any secret message in white?

Oh, there is. But only the true wizzard can read it.

(I, for example, can't)

[Gorlom]

Oh, there is. But only the true wizzard can read it.

(I, for example, can't)

Thothkins! read the secret message to me!

[thothkins]

ha ha! that message was hilarious ha ha heh... he... no, I can't see anything either

[SJF14]

Hey guys,

Just pre-ordered Xenonauts! The Firaxis remake of X-Com was a huge disappointment for me, riddled with silly bugs and watered down to a 'strategy-Lite' abomination that, thankfully, has failed to sell well.

Having played Xenonauts I have to say THANKYOU! for staying true to the genre, and not giving in to the mass market, demographic driven tripe that is now the standard of modern gaming. There are so few good games out there right now (Torchlight 2, FarCry 3 (an ubisoft game no less!) Dishonored) and Xenonauts is right up there with them.

I truly hope this game gets the recognition it deserves come release, and your hard work and sleepless nights rewarded. I am a former games industry QA veteran and will lend my skills to this game as often as I can.

Sincerely,

Tenzo77 (Stu)

You're entitled to your view but the facts really don't support it. Xcom enemy unknown was a big commercial and critical success. There is only one bug of any real note, the teleport bug. The maps maybe small but that only makes each decision more crucial. It's also an extremely difficult and unforgiving game at the higher levels.

I don't really understand why you would bash such an excellent game? Do you realise that Xenonauts is likely to have a plethora of bugs that need to be ironed out too and that it will sell far fewer units than Xcom (since you're bothered about that kind of thing). It may be more prudent to wait until both games have been released before making any comparisons.

I imagine I will be buying Xenonauts but I'm not going to view it through rose-tinted spectacles. The sub par graphics are already a concern to me. The gameplay will need to be all the more compelling to make up for them. Time will tell if they can pull this off. Until then, I'll continue having fun with other excellent games such as Xcom.

[Jean-Luc]

The sub par graphics are already a concern to me.

Seriously? Just look at this: http://xenonauts.com/devimages/GiantBase.jpg

So full of detail and charm and you actually get to walk around it and defend it from attacks and the layout influences how you do this and rooms can be damaged and rendered inoperable. Superior visuals and gameplay in one example (imho).

[thothkins]

Those would be the same graphics that I bought the game for, so there's always another side to subjectivity.

Generally, it's not an exercise in comparison. EU2012 goes one way and Xenonauts the other. I'm sure it's very possible to enjoy both on their merits.

An article has the following pretty appropriate quote:-

Jake Solomon: ... The original remains this masterpiece, nobody’s going to make a game that’s going to overshadow the original, but I’m just glad that it still stands there as its own completely separate game. I would never tell somebody ‘oh yeah, play our XCOM, you don’t have to play the original’. It’s not at all the case. It’s ‘look, they are two completely different games that you need to play, if you’re a gamer you need to play the original and have that completely unpredictable experience. It’s very fuzzy, but it also feels really authentic because you know that the UFOs are out there, whether or not you can detect them, they don’t care. They’re out there flying. I love that game.

I think it's fair to say that Xenonauts is a little more faithful in it's approach to capturing some of the magic that EU1994 has, where EU2012 was looking to a more focused gaming experience. which can be really exciting too in a different way.

On bugs, the same article said:-

RPS: XCOM launched rather buggy and there’re still a few hanging about. What happened there, and do you have a plan for how to iron all that stuff out?

Jake Solomon: Yeah, it did. I agree – it’s just a shame.

and

But yeah, that’s one of the bugs, and I don’t know exactly which bugs are being addressed but there is another patch coming, with second wave, so hopefully that addresses a lot of them.

So, there would appear to be much complaint about a number of issues.

[Gorlom]

What makes graphics sub par? can 2D and 3D even be compared? For 2D the graphics needs to be rated on the pixel count right? and for 3D it would be the polygon count? Or is there some other way to measure graphics?

Or is SJF saying that 2D is sub par?

[SJF14]

Those would be the same graphics that I bought the game for, so there's always another side to subjectivity.

Indeed

So, there would appear to be much complaint about a number of issues.

There are a few minor things. The odd crash or unhelpful camera angle but generally I've found it very solid.

Seriously? Just look at this: http://xenonauts.com/devimages/GiantBase.jpg

So full of detail and charm and you actually get to walk around it and defend it from attacks and the layout influences how you do this and rooms can be damaged and rendered inoperable. Superior visuals and gameplay in one example (imho).

Well I agree that that is a nice shot and I like the way you put it "full of charm". It's not the scenery/buildings I have a problem with.

What makes graphics sub par? can 2D and 3D even be compared? For 2D the graphics needs to be rated on the pixel count right? and for 3D it would be the polygon count? Or is there some other way to measure graphics?

Or is SJF saying that 2D is sub par?

I think maybe I am yes. I think we can assume that Xcom veterans (I am not one) will be interested in and purchase this game but for the majority of gamers may be turned off when they compare the graphics to other top-down strategy titles. In this age of Starcraft, Diablo, Civilisation, Total War, Company of Heroes, etc etc, can a game using 2D artwork really flourish? If it's a matter of cost and resources, then I understand, and I'm sure they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. However, as a casual gamer who is not an Xcom afficionado, I have found myself less than convinced by the graphics in the videos and screenshots I've seen.

It's not just the 2D issue, some of it is design. Here's an example: The soldiers, when you see them in the hangar and choose their equipment, they don't exactly look very badass do they? The ones I've see look like an accountant in a helmet and jumpsuit. Hardly an elite killer force!

With all that said, I probably shouldn't comment on a game I have yet to play. I did buy it though last night (if only because I like to support independent titles) and I will try to have a look tonight and give some considered feedback.

[Gauddlike]

Most of the real soldiers I have met don't look very badass either.

Change into civvies and they could be an accountant, or a shelf stacker in the local supermarket.

The game engine the team use is very dated, and wasn't top notch when it was released.

A bad choice by their initial coder, who left after choosing it but not before too much work had been done to change it.

Chris has said on a number of occasions that he would prefer to be using 3D graphics instead of having to develop 3D assets and then turn them into 2D images.

Next time that shouldn't be an issue though as the devs seem to learn from their mistakes quite quickly.

For me I quite like the look of the graphics.

It is very different from the over shiny path a lot of modern games are taking.

I also like the aesthetics of the art direction.

The grittier, slightly downtrodden look of the troops you mention is actually one of the parts I like most.

There are no supermen, just a bunch of average soldiers who have the job of trying to save the world against the odds.

[Jean-Luc]

It's not just the 2D issue, some of it is design. Here's an example: The soldiers, when you see them in the hangar and choose their equipment, they don't exactly look very badass do they? The ones I've see look like an accountant in a helmet and jumpsuit. Hardly an elite killer force!

True, it's one of those things you're either "into" or not. Games/movies have given us an image of soldiers as hardrock, unflinching badasses and Xenoanuts definitely takes a different route here. The old RPS preview explained it best imo:

For a start, the setting has moved from overtly 90s-styled near-future sci-fi to an alien invasion in the midst of the Cold War, and with that comes a more subdued palette and a more military-realistic look. Much was made at the Expo of how dour your soldiers looked on their inventory screens – surly, tired, not handsome, clearly having a bad time. It’s drawn some complaints, but I am entirely behind this – send me into the middle of a desperate battle against an enemy unknown and you’re not going to find me smiling or spending time gelling my hair into a Rob Liefeildesque upright spray of preposterous posing. These guys are in a terrible situation, and it is only right that this dread knowledge would be written all over their scowling faces.

Link: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/10/01/xenonauts-preview/

I like it because it's refreshing and fits the atmosphere imo (cold war/alien invasion) and while I've never dabbled in professional pain infliction I imagine that most soldiers look a lot more like "normal people" and a lot less like Rambo. On the other hand Xenonauts aren't "the army", they're supposed to be best of the best (or that is what we assume) but there you have it.

[Chris]

I don't particularly think Xenonauts should be a stick used to beat Firaxis with, we're doing different things.

I rather like our graphic style too, but I can see why others wouldn't like it as much - not going to lose sleep over it though, I've made my decisions with regards to the art direction already. I think the final game will have graphics that at the very least don't break immersion, and at best you'll think they are very distinctive and unique.

[Gorlom]

can a game using 2D artwork really flourish?

There are a lot of 2D games outside of the FPS or TPS genres. You only seem to compare with ridiculous big IPs that have massive budgets. Why haven't you compared with say Minecraft? FTL? or other games that are very popular but doesn't have the superlarge graphics budget?

Have you played any point and click adventure games? From the ones I've played anyone with 3D graphics has sucked. Not just bewcause of the controls but because they don't really look good. Some of the mechanics used in point and click games can't be properly utilized in 3D without an overhaul to said mechanic. The broken sword series tried 3D for game number 4 but is going back to 2D for game number 5.

Personally I think that 3D graphics is "sub par" aesthetically. The only reason to have 3D graphics is if you are in a game that needs to change camera angles all the time (such as First or Third person games.) If you have a static camera I'd rather have 2D art since I think that often is prettier and more pleasing on the eye. The design choices for 3D is different from 2D.

Look at XCOM, they have chosen to do theese silly oversized cartoon guns because they need to (so that the player can identify them easily). I think it looks horrible, but it doesn't work with pretty guns since the players wouldn't be able to identify them as easily. This is not as big a problem with 2D graphics oddly enough. I think it's easier to identify a 2D image than a 3D object.

/TLDR: 3D graphics can suck it for all I care.

[a333]

I don't particularly think Xenonauts should be a stick used to beat Firaxis with, we're doing different things.

It's just happened that the Xenonauts cover almost all that differ XCOM2012 from the original. And here, on this forum is the fortress of the stubborn fans who dont want to be succumbed by the new tendencies in game making. No wonder we'll...assess the xcom2012 negatively. With a stick.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Not true. I'm sure many of us here have garnered at least some entertainment from EU2012.

It's just we were all hankering for ye old X-COM, not the more action-focused movie-like game we ended up purchasing. Looking on its own merits, I believe that EU2012 is better suited for those small, broken up bits of gaming (say, 1-1.5 hours max), where you're not marathoning the crap out of it for 4-6 hours a day.

Xenonauts, I've found, has a little more endurance for longer play-times, what with the larger amount of weapons and tactics you can use, especially since you can target bits of scenery, something you can't do in EU2012.