Can you add a function after "Launch Combat Team" to arrange troops on ship?

[Emily_F]

So, it is useful to be able to arm troops before going on the combat mission, but if you change loadouts you usually want to change people are on the drop ship, meaning you have to abort the launch to do so.  It would be better to have arranging them after the load out screen when sending a dropship somewhere.  

[Skitso]

Great idea! You could have 2 buttons in the loadout screen: Launch dropship and Arrange and launch.

[Chris]

2 hours ago, Emily_F said:

So, it is useful to be able to arm troops before going on the combat mission, but if you change loadouts you usually want to change people are on the drop ship, meaning you have to abort the launch to do so.  It would be better to have arranging them after the load out screen when sending a dropship somewhere.  

Sorry, I don't quite understand the issue you're experiencing. Can't you change the people on the dropship from the Soldier Equip screen?

It's also possible to physically arrange people within a dropship on the Aircraft screen even if it is airborne, if that's relevant?

[Emily_F]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

It's also possible to physically arrange people within a dropship on the Aircraft screen even if it is airborne, if that's relevant?

Wait, what?  How???

I didn't know that, but I was referring to what happens when you click on a downed UFO or base etc, and you choose to send the dropship, then you get taken to the load out screen to make any changes to the troops.  It would be best if, after that screen, you could arrange the troops in the dropship.

[Chris]

3 hours ago, Emily_F said:

Wait, what?  How???

I didn't know that, but I was referring to what happens when you click on a downed UFO or base etc, and you choose to send the dropship, then you get taken to the load out screen to make any changes to the troops.  It would be best if, after that screen, you could arrange the troops in the dropship.

What do you mean exactly by "you could arrange the troops in the dropship", though - do you just mean you'd be brought to the dropship section of the Aircraft screen so you can arrange the placement of soldiers in the dropship? Or do you mean arranging the order of your soldiers in the hotkey list? Or something else?

[Chthon]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

What do you mean exactly by "you could arrange the troops in the dropship", though - do you just mean you'd be brought to the dropship section of the Aircraft screen so you can arrange the placement of soldiers in the dropship? Or do you mean arranging the order of your soldiers in the hotkey list? Or something else?

I think they're talking more about the order of thought in a person's head. They choose to go on a mission(1), then they pick who goes on the mission(2), and then choose where they go on the dropship(3). Currently you have to do it out of order by choosing who goes on the mission(1), then pick where they go on the dropship(2), and then choose to go on the mission(3).

The ordering of the actions is not natural, so it's not obvious to the ordinary person that you can reorder the dropship.

[Emily_F]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

What do you mean exactly by "you could arrange the troops in the dropship", though - do you just mean you'd be brought to the dropship section of the Aircraft screen so you can arrange the placement of soldiers in the dropship? Or do you mean arranging the order of your soldiers in the hotkey list? Or something else?

Ohhh, as in arrange them in the dropship in the grid. For example I put 2 snipers and a MARS at the tailgate and a heavy on either side door, and spread everyone else out accordingly.  See what I mean?

And @Chthon is right - I've been a tester since before Jesus was born, and until literally today I'd always thought that once a dropship was airborne you couldn't change anything.  That said, it certainly isn't obvious and would be better if it was done after you've done the "equip your troops" screen - that is just logical UI.

[Chris]

On 7/9/2023 at 12:56 AM, Emily_F said:

Ohhh, as in arrange them in the dropship in the grid. For example I put 2 snipers and a MARS at the tailgate and a heavy on either side door, and spread everyone else out accordingly.  See what I mean?

And @Chthon is right - I've been a tester since before Jesus was born, and until literally today I'd always thought that once a dropship was airborne you couldn't change anything.  That said, it certainly isn't obvious and would be better if it was done after you've done the "equip your troops" screen - that is just logical UI.

Sure. It was something we changed relatively recently so I'm not surprised you weren't aware you could do it; for most of the dev cycle you couldn't.

The reason why I'd prefer not to implement this is that there's two camps of players - the ones who have set roles in their team (I want 2 Assault soldiers, even if my newest assault guy doesn't have amazing stats for the role) and people who set the roles within the team based on the capabilities of their soldiers. If you're in the first camp, which I am, then the dropship arrangement only has to be set once and I'd find it annoying for it to pop up every time I launched the dropship.

I guess we could add another button on the Soldier Equip topbar that says "Go to Soldier Arrangement" or something, but that's not a simple change because these special versions of the screen shown before the mission have quite a bit of unique code. But I can note it down as something to look at in Early Access if lots of people think it would be a worthwhile suggestion.

 

[Chthon]

8 minutes ago, Chris said:

Sure. It was something we changed relatively recently so I'm not surprised you weren't aware you could do it; for most of the dev cycle you couldn't.

The reason why I'd prefer not to implement this is that there's two camps of players - the ones who have set roles in their team (I want 2 Assault soldiers, even if my newest assault guy doesn't have amazing stats for the role) and people who set the roles within the team based on the capabilities of their soldiers. If you're in the first camp, which I am, then the dropship arrangement only has to be set once and I'd find it annoying for it to pop up every time I launched the dropship.

I guess we could add another button on the Soldier Equip topbar that says "Go to Soldier Arrangement" or something, but that's not a simple change because these special versions of the screen shown before the mission have quite a bit of unique code. But I can note it down as something to look at in Early Access if lots of people think it would be a worthwhile suggestion.

 

This is something I feel should be along the lines of "Why can't it be both ways" where you can find it either way you look. Making it easier to find is better, no? Having it always at a click or two away from where you would want it is good, rather than forcing you to exit out of a screen and navigate over to an entirely different screen, is good. This is what we call UEx or User Experience. Maybe you will have to redesign how you set up the way you make the calls, but in the end it will be for the better.

[Chris]

22 minutes ago, Chthon said:

This is something I feel should be along the lines of "Why can't it be both ways" where you can find it either way you look. Making it easier to find is better, no? Having it always at a click or two away from where you would want it is good, rather than forcing you to exit out of a screen and navigate over to an entirely different screen, is good. This is what we call UEx or User Experience. Maybe you will have to redesign how you set up the way you make the calls, but in the end it will be for the better.

Of course, but in the end the limiting factor is that there's only a certain amount of developer time available to spend on improving the game. This feature would save a user two clicks each time it gets used (assuming they're a user who falls into the camp that regularly rearranges their soldiers).

As I said, if we want to avoid annoying all the players that don't want to rearrange their soldiers all the time, this isn't just a ten minute fix where we add a new button to the UI. So the question is whether it's actually worth spending programmer time on this rather than some other feature that might be more beneficial, and to judge that I need to know what the level of interest in the feature is.

[Emily_F]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

I guess we could add another button on the Soldier Equip topbar that says "Go to Soldier Arrangement" or something, but that's not a simple change because these special versions of the screen shown before the mission have quite a bit of unique code. But I can note it down as something to look at in Early Access if lots of people think it would be a worthwhile suggestion.

 

Yeah, that is kinda what I originally thought would suffice and would fix the issue in a way that keeps everyone happy lol

[DaviddesJ]

Although this is a small thing, I'd also like to be able to change the initial facing of my soldiers. Or at least have the ones who are positioned next to the side doors just have their initial facing  always be out the door? That would seem more natural than facing forward.

[Emily_F]

29 minutes ago, DaviddesJ said:

Although this is a small thing, I'd also like to be able to change the initial facing of my soldiers. Or at least have the ones who are positioned next to the side doors just have their initial facing  always be out the door? That would seem more natural than facing forward.

You can. Right click on them in the drop ship view in the aircraft menu

[Dren608]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:09 AM, Chris said:

Sure. It was something we changed relatively recently so I'm not surprised you weren't aware you could do it; for most of the dev cycle you couldn't.

The reason why I'd prefer not to implement this is that there's two camps of players - the ones who have set roles in their team (I want 2 Assault soldiers, even if my newest assault guy doesn't have amazing stats for the role) and people who set the roles within the team based on the capabilities of their soldiers. If you're in the first camp, which I am, then the dropship arrangement only has to be set once and I'd find it annoying for it to pop up every time I launched the dropship.

I guess we could add another button on the Soldier Equip topbar that says "Go to Soldier Arrangement" or something, but that's not a simple change because these special versions of the screen shown before the mission have quite a bit of unique code. But I can note it down as something to look at in Early Access if lots of people think it would be a worthwhile suggestion.

 

Ok there is the third camp which is going to come up in Early access and I did this in testing for Early access video series I hope to make. I lost a couple of soldiers say #3 and #6 (wounded or KIA)

I get the launch mission I see I am missing a couple of guys go to replace them I may not know who was at what position originally in the Drop ship, I just want my full head count. I add them in but now not sure what role they were replacing so did I put the assault gut in the right slot?, Only way to tell is to back out of launch screen and go to Ship Screen?. I will test that Rearranging while in flight this weekend, Trying to get all the "tricks" in my notes to show in videos, maybe someone already has such a video out?

[Judy]

How does the programming determine where each solder is placed in the dropship?  Once we know, I could possibly have an idea of how to implement solder placement somewhat easily.

[Irishguy117]

On 7/10/2023 at 4:09 AM, Chris said:

Sure. It was something we changed relatively recently so I'm not surprised you weren't aware you could do it; for most of the dev cycle you couldn't.

The reason why I'd prefer not to implement this is that there's two camps of players - the ones who have set roles in their team (I want 2 Assault soldiers, even if my newest assault guy doesn't have amazing stats for the role) and people who set the roles within the team based on the capabilities of their soldiers. If you're in the first camp, which I am, then the dropship arrangement only has to be set once and I'd find it annoying for it to pop up every time I launched the dropship.

I guess we could add another button on the Soldier Equip topbar that says "Go to Soldier Arrangement" or something, but that's not a simple change because these special versions of the screen shown before the mission have quite a bit of unique code. But I can note it down as something to look at in Early Access if lots of people think it would be a worthwhile suggestion.

 

Just chiming in that for me, the process of shooting a UFO goes - Shoot Down UFO, be faced with "Launch Mission vs airstrike it" screen, hit cancel, go to the armory and arrange and equip the soldiers properly so that they're all standing in the right place, and then go back and launch the mission. Its hardly gamebreaking, but its awkward.

 

While on the topic, the equivalent screen in Xenonauts 1 felt a lot better due to the soldier's role icons being present, any chance that it coming back? Again its not a huge deal but its like, 1-2 minutes per mission mousing over each soldier waiting for the tooltip to populate, it adds up as the prerequisite to every.single.mission.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Irishguy117

[doubleskulls]

4 hours ago, Judy said:

How does the programming determine where each solder is placed in the dropship?  Once we know, I could possibly have an idea of how to implement solder placement somewhat easily.

If you go to hangar, click on the dropship, you can set them where you like. I basically have a standard pattern which I then make sure the squad numbers match the setup so I don't need to think about it again. 

[Novadea]

I've literally arranged the soldiers three times in the dropship. First when I started, second when I got the skyhawk, third when I decided to ditch MARS. As such were your request of having the layout screen as an extra step to confirm implemented, would just be an 100% useless screen for me (and I'd assume many others who'd set up the spots on the ship and then move people around in the roster etc).

E: Since the arrangement can be changed mid flight, then adding the button of launch and rearrange shouldn't be more than the current launch + switch to the aircraft screen for the rearrangement?

Edited July 22, 2023 by Novadea

[Judy]

Dear developers, please add a tutorial section to explain how to arrange soldiers in the drop ship.  I was not aware of the above features mentioned int he comments above, but I guess maybe you were still working on the tutorial.  Maybe add a tutorial section after the shoot down tutorial that discusses setting up and launching the dropship and equipping the soldiers.