Wounded and unconscious Aliens.

[Gorlom]

Are only considering the babysitting aspect? Just because you aren't babysitting the aliens in my examples it doesn't matter?

Let the alien commanders/officers/telepaths have shared vision of stunned aliens so they can attack the babysitter. That way babysitting would be a target, and you might consider not wasting resources on that and simply deal with the alien when it shows up again?

Let the aliens have concealed weapons or whatever so they are still armed. be it a spare sidearm hidden in an ankle holster or a few grenades or even a megablaster.

[Gauddlike]

No your examples didn't matter because the player had no real choice in them.

Either they were in a fight so couldn't react to the stunned alien or they were risking being attacked so the stunned alien became unimportant.

Why would your troops not remove this ankle holstered blaster?

If everything else they are carrying drops to the ground, including everything carried in their backpack, why would this particular weapon be different?

The first time your troops got caught out would be understandable but the tenth or twentieth time they didn't notice this gun?

It seems much simpler if a stunned target just doesn't drop their gear all over the floor.

I would maybe drop the carried weapon but not everything in every pocket or backpack space.

You know they are down and may be barely concious so kick their dropped gun away.

Going through their pockets for loose change would be much more likely to disturb them.

Adding in another mechanic on top so line of sight is ignored if there is a stunned enemy around feels like a very cheap tactic as well.

[Gorlom]

No your examples didn't matter because the player had no real choice in them.

Either they were in a fight so couldn't react to the stunned alien or they were risking being attacked so the stunned alien became unimportant.

I disagree. They were no longer near the top of the current priority list, but the aliens regaining consciousness in those situations are not "of no interest". Imo they add value to the gameplay if they can occur.

Why would your troops not remove this ankle holstered blaster?

If everything else they are carrying drops to the ground, including everything carried in their backpack, why would this particular weapon be different?

The first time your troops got caught out would be understandable but the tenth or twentieth time they didn't notice this gun?

I don't know? some kind of cloaking device that prevents detecting it with any sense or instrument?? a magical bag of holding defying all reason disguised as a smelly sock? I don't really care about the justification for why.

It seems much simpler if a stunned target just doesn't drop their gear all over the floor.

I would maybe drop the carried weapon but not everything in every pocket or backpack space.

You know they are down and may be barely concious so kick their dropped gun away.

Going through their pockets for loose change would be much more likely to disturb them.

Ok... so you found some other justification on your own I guess? o.0

The aliens aren't allowed to have hidden gear but it's ok if you rational it isn't hidden, they just doesn't drop it? You lost me somewhere. I 'm not really sure what your opinion is anymore.

Adding in another mechanic on top so line of sight is ignored if there is a stunned enemy around feels like a very cheap tactic as well.

Whatever. All I'm saying is that I personally think that it would be more fun if aliens can wake up from stuns. Bonus if they get to keep some kind of weapon for when they wake up.

[Arturius]

And I believe we could just tie this mechanic to difficulty level.

On Normal aliens cannot wake up from stun.

On Hard only strong/hardy aliens can (like Sebillians, ...[insert name here]).

On Impossible all aliens have a small chance of recovering from stun.

[Khall]

We couldn't just give the aliens a melee attack, so if they wake up they could either attack the babysitter, which they might do if the babysitter is close enough, e.g. soldier with stun rod (they would have an extra chance to reaction fire before the alien does anything) or make a run for it and try to scavenge a gun. They wouldn't be completely helpless even if you took their weapons away.

[erutan]

@gorlom / gaud - exactly, the reason we don't remove their ankle blasters is to not disturb them when they are stunned. bravo!

@art - that's a great idea.

@khall - because it'd be more sprite rendering perhaps?

[Gauddlike]

I 'm not really sure what your opinion is anymore.

Same as it has always been.

The mechanic as discussed so far doesn't feel like much fun, but if it can be made interesting then I might be swayed, hence the reason I suggested ways to make it more interesting, such as not throwing all their equipment away when stunned.

The aliens aren't allowed to have hidden gear but it's ok if you rational it isn't hidden, they just doesn't drop it? You lost me somewhere.

The aliens can have hidden gear but why bother?

Why would an alien who is stunned empty his pockets and backpack all over the floor?

He may drop whatever was in his hands at the time but I would suggest the rest of his gear would stay where he packed it.

When the alien stands back up he would still have access to his grenades and any other equipment he was carrying.

My personal feeling is that the weapon should not even be dropped from his hands, despite the realism aspect.

That would make every stunned alien a potential threat to be dealt with instead of an unarmed wanderer to be ignored.

The mystical blaster of invisibility is a work around to this rather than a proper solution.

If an enemy can be left completely useless then there is no threat to them waking up, hence no interesting behaviour.

If they remain dangerous then you have a decision to make.

If they are rendered harmless then you have no meaningful decision as they no longer count as a threat.

A stun may as well be a kill in that situation.

In the same way that once you mind controlled an enemy and threw their gun away they were effectively neutralised in the OG.

If they can stand up and the AI tells them to go find a new weapon but there is a Xenonaut standing over them with a stun rod then again they have limited scope to be a threat.

If they stand back up armed and dangerous, although with penalties to accuracy and reduced AP or whatever is decided to be fair, then they are an immediate danger and starting to get interesting.

[Max_Caine]

This will be a moot point if Chris goes ahead and drops the number of Xenonauts from 12 to 8 in the first dropship (I imagine it will go 8/12/16 with each successive tier). A lot of the early-game will involve stunning and capturing alien specimens. An 8-man team kitted out in jackal armour can't afford to babysit aliens as at that point in the game with the degree of leathilty of low-level (i.e. guard not non-com) alien arms casualities are sort-of an inevitability and every hand is needed at the tiller, shooting/stunning other aliens. With 12 guys, you could afford to leave one babysitter behind. With 8 at Xenonauts level of leathality? You really can't.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Max_Caine

[GizmoGomez]

I knew that was the current system, I was responding to the "It could be fun" comment by Gorlom.

Anyway, it does seem like perma-stuns make the most sense. Less busywork to do, since, as you said Gauddlike, the aliens wouldn't really pose a threat.

One question- What happens when you do capture a stunned alien, and there is no containment? You just kill them while they slept, I'd assume?

And what happens if you do capture one, you have a containment, but you have no use for it? I can only think you would be able to sell it somehow, although selling it live would be akin to slave trading, and killing it in cold blood to sell it dead would be distasteful, dishonorable.

Depending on what happens to them in these situations, I may just kill all of them in combat (besides the ones important for research and interrogation), as it'd be somewhat of a "kinder" fate.

[TrashMan]

This will be a moot point if Chris goes ahead and drops the number of Xenonauts from 12 to 8 in the first dropship (I imagine it will go 8/12/16 with each successive tier).

Frankly, I feel 16 too much hassle.

I'd personally go 8/10/12...but even that is pushing it.

[thothkins]

I can only think you would be able to sell it somehow, although selling it live would be akin to slave trading, and killing it in cold blood to sell it dead would be distasteful, dishonorable.

Do you get the money for selling them into slavery? Alternately, you could open sci-fi themed bars and have them work in there. More profit for Xenonauts! Who need the manufacturing for profit exploit of EU1994?

[GizmoGomez]

Hmm... Maybe you could rehabilitate them, and indeed have them work in Sci-Fi bars, or ComicCon, perhaps? With armed guards and a tiny detonator implanted in their heads, of course, to prevent them from doing any damage if they suddenly decide to be jerks again. They could be extras on Star Trek and the like. That'd be cool.

[erutan]

Auction them off to billionaires as pets. Screw the council funding!

[GizmoGomez]

My thoughts are, they're sentient. It's just wrong to kill them in cold blood, after capturing them. I dunno, maybe my pacifism is getting in the way.

[crusherven]

What else are you going to do? Return them? Exchange them for... what? Doesn't seem like the aliens take POWs. Detain them indefinitely?

In normal wars, not shooting prisoners is important for a variety of reasons, such as encouraging reciprocity and quick surrenders in the future. If you think you're going to lose, but can still live by surrendering, why not? But if the enemy shoots prisoners you keep on fighting. None of that applies here.

Furthermore, if you're going to keep the aliens alive, you need to spend resources doing that. Those resources necessarily come out of your budget for protecting your men and actively fighting the alien threat. Is it really moral to hold them indefinitely while taking resources away from protecting your own men?

[thothkins]

Keeping them alive could really make a difference. You have to offset the cost of containment, environment, heating, sustenance etc against what they can do for you.

- Caesian all in one leisure suits. All the rage in the 70s and 80s

- Sebillian handbags, shoes and jackets. Endless supply as they regenerate the skin.

- Andron demolition crews

- Reaper outsourcing. Now all of your workers really will be mindless drones.

[erutan]

While I'd have no objection to killing a stunned alien, I have to say the thought of keeping a Sebillian alive and repeatedly skinning it to make luxury goods is a step too far.

[GizmoGomez]

Keeping them alive could really make a difference. You have to offset the cost of containment, environment, heating, sustenance etc against what they can do for you.

- Caesian all in one leisure suits. All the rage in the 70s and 80s

- Sebillian handbags, shoes and jackets. Endless supply as they regenerate the skin.

- Andron demolition crews

- Reaper outsourcing. Now all of your workers really will be mindless drones.

While I'd have no objection to killing a stunned alien, I have to say the thought of keeping a Sebillian alive and repeatedly skinning it to make luxury goods is a step too far.

I'm currently laughing out loud like an idiot, that is the funniest thing I've heard all day!

Anyway, crusherven, I wasn't saying that I'd rather keep the prisoners alive if they weren't needed, they're still going to die. I'd just rather they died on the battlefield when they had the chance to defend themselves, or even when stunned and sitting on the battlefield, because that's more honorable I suppose. Killing them in cold blood would be necessary, so I'd do it, but I wouldn't like it. But my men come first, obviously.

[thothkins]

While I'd have no objection to killing a stunned alien, I have to say the thought of keeping a Sebillian alive and repeatedly skinning it to make luxury goods is a step too far.

It may be a step too far, but it would be a step you'd take in luxurious comfort, thanks to your Sebillian Slipper.

[Gauddlike]

Unless your slippers continue to regenerate as well.

Fall asleep wearing those lovely new Sebillian slippers and you might wake up with your feet in the orifices of a couple of surprised and angry Sebillians.

Personally I would suggest you just ship them off to the local funding nation same as you do with the corpses.

Let them handle the prisoners while you get on with saving the world.

[thothkins]

I'd like to think that there was a certain point that they couldn't regenerate form. It isn't the thing form another world.... or is it?

Sebillian 1: Ow! That's my spleen you stepped on!

Sebillian 2: Wheeze! Can't... breathe...lung... compressed...

Sgt thothkins: Oh, be quiet slippers!

[Gauddlike]

I just had visions of Grom the Paunch of Misty Mountain.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Is it just me, or do we always somehow end up derailing every single conversation that's posted?

[erutan]

back on topic. If there is any change from the default I'd be totally down to have it along the lines of unlocking via difficulty levels.

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/3568-Wounded-and-unconscious-Aliens?p=52576&viewfull=1#post52576

[thothkins]

My thoughts are, they're sentient. It's just wrong to kill them in cold blood, after capturing them. I dunno, maybe my pacifism is getting in the way.

Burke: This is clearly an important species we're dealing with, and I don't think you or I or anybody has the right to arbitrarily exterminate them.

Ripley: Wrong!

Vasquez: Yeah, watch us.

Bishop: They would make elegant slippers though.