Wounded and unconscious Aliens.

[thothkins]

Well they only brought 3000 ships, they have to run out of ammo eventually right?

Unfortunately, until war is officially declared they are being supplied by half the countries on the planet with back up munitions

I don't suppose you could revive an alien with a medipack could you? It might be useful (although for the life of me I can't figure why right now.)

Well, if you somehow knew (Mind Probe hinty, hint) that an alien was going to die, and yet you needed it badly for research, you could try and revive it on the field. To be honest, I'd be happy to accept that human medkits work less than well on alien physiology. But, later in the game if there are other medical options then that could well change.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Hmmmm...can we KEEP stunning them if they are already stunned?

[Gorlom]

Hmmmm...can we KEEP stunning them if they are already stunned?

To what effect commissar? Chris just said that if you got them stunned they are stunned for the rest of the mission. So I don't see what the point of stunning them again would be?

[GizmoGomez]

Perhaps boosting skills?

[thothkins]

xenonauts working part time at an abattoir in their days off? If they are definitely stunned for the duration of the mission there doesn;t seem to be too much point. I quite liked the idea of them possibly shaking it off and waking up at some point in the mission. Especially the Sebillians.

[Arturius]

It would mean too much trouble guarding the Sebillians then.

I agree with Chris, let stunned aliens stay stunned until the end of the mission.

[Gorlom]

Any chance there will be a way to mod stunn regeneration, decay whatever?

[StellarRat]

So, will alien that has regeneration ability stay stunned? It seems to me they would be almost immune to stunning.

[thothkins]

It would seem that they would stay stunned, regardless.

I suppose that ideally they would have a higher stun threshold (the Sebillian regeneration system working reactively immediately against stun and smoke damage taking the edge off of such damage received) and/or they would recover in a shorter space of time.

Having stunned a Sebillian the other day, I kept a soldier over it out of sheer habit. So, I'm changing the way I'm approaching the game by not having to do that. It takes a little of the suspense out of the game. The TFTD Let's Play also has plenty of occasions where bodies are checked to see if they are dead, or if they will have a chance to get back up cause trouble.

It's not the most earth shattering of things for me relatively speaking, but was always something to add extra uncertainty which isn;t a bad thing.

[StellarRat]

It's not the most earth shattering of things for me relatively speaking, but was always something to add extra uncertainty which isn't a bad thing.

Agree. Generally, speaking I would always take all the weapons and equipment off the stunned aliens that way if they woke up they're wasn't a lot they could do, except the melee types. I did the same with soldiers that were vulnerable to mind control. They were then used as unarmed spotters. Cruel huh? LOL.

[erutan]

I don't have super strong feelings on this, but you can get stunned by smoke inhalation etc right? I did some googling and didn't get any data for average stun length from a taser, though in the end it should be a gameplay decision.

I'm a bit torn, as I like the simplicity of stunned targets staying stunned (esp melee ones) but agree that some chance of them coming out of it (based on race?) would make the game more interesting.

[GizmoGomez]

Maybe it should just be that it's harder to stun the hardier aliens, and leave it at that. It'd be simpler.

Although, an enemy coming to behind my lines would freak me out, and make the game all the better.

Maybe have a very small chance that they will come back, but most likely they won't, making it almost a Schrödinger's Cat-like thing. Is he stunned permanently? Or is he going to come back to haunt me? Unless you observe the guy, you have no idea, producing extra suspense. It wouldn't even have to be something that happens often, because if it did, you would just leave a guy to cover him. Since it wouldn't happen often, you would most likely leave him alone, but that 5% chance (or whatever, balancing must be taken into account) will keep you wary.

As for races dictating stun effects, the weaker races could have a really low (1%? .5%?) chance to come back, if they have a chance at all, so it wouldn't be a big deal for them to be left without a guard.

For the stronger races, though, a relatively high chance (but still low enough that it wouldn't warrant a guard every time) to return would create more suspense, like maybe a 10% chance. Is this Sebillian one of the 10% that will come back? Is that chance worth losing a soldier to guard duty, when they could be used elsewhere?

It'd make the game more enjoyable, imho.

[erutan]

If they can revive, then have "reviving" take up that entire turn. Then if you have a babysitter they have a turn to restun it, vs having it pop up and do damage. If you don't have a babysitter, well your loss.

Having a reaper come up with full TUs in that turn would be pretty horrible.

[GizmoGomez]

Yeah, that's a good idea. It'd make sense, anyway, as the punk'd have to take a moment to clear its head.

[TrashMan]

Realisticly speaking, knocking out or stunning sumone isn't easy - and generally only lasts for a little while. If someone is out for a longer than a few minutes, it's usually indicative of head trauma.

[Gauddlike]

But would it really be fun to have enemies get back up on their own?

Assuming you didn't have a second way to complete the mission before they get back up what would you do?

Remove their weapons so there were no challenge if they woke up?

Why bother allowing them to wake up if they will be ineffective and can be ignored?

Stand someone nearby to guard them if they were dangerous in some way (reapers)?

Doesn't that remove fun if you have people just stood doing nothing on the off chance an enemy does something?

Like reaction guarding a doorway in case someone uses it later.

Assuming you do neither and they get back up and it turns into a bug hunt to stop them killing civilians behind your lines does that become fun?

If you need a Sebillian for research is it more fun to have to struggle to take him down in the first place (stun resist) or just to get someone to stand and wait for him to stand up and repeat stun like some kind of bizarre whack-a-lizard game until the end of the mission?

[Gorlom]

Yes, That would be fun.

WTB modable stun decay/regeneration whatever!

[thothkins]

But would it really be fun to have enemies get back up on their own?

Assuming you didn't have a second way to complete the mission before they get back up what would you do?

Yes, fun due to the extra suspense// uncertainty mentioned above. Particularly the Sebillians as they have an ability that thrives on such a thing. Possibly also fairness? It balances a bit against the Xenonaut medikit reviving soldiers.

Remove their weapons so there were no challenge if they woke up?

Why bother allowing them to wake up if they will be ineffective and can be ignored?

I agree, if they are awake, then they should be going for weapons.

Stand someone nearby to guard them if they were dangerous in some way (reapers)?

Doesn't that remove fun if you have people just stood doing nothing on the off chance an enemy does something?

Like reaction guarding a doorway in case someone uses it later.

Adds much fun through tension. I don't have to post a guard. Sometimes I won't have the manpower to be able to post one. But that just means I'll have to be extra careful in case an alien attacks from behind. Crimson Dagger highlights this sort of thing quite nicely.

Assuming you do neither and they get back up and it turns into a bug hunt to stop them killing civilians behind your lines does that become fun?

Very likely to, although "bug hunt" may depend on what the AI has their options as under such circumstances. It doesn't have to mean one alien hiding behind a crate. I imagine a Sebillian would go for the nearest throat. A Caseian might have a secondary objective if there were such things in the game - destroy power core or some such. Androns would find the nearest garage for repairs. Imagine thinking you were just about done with the mission only to find that a Reaper is approaching from behind! Horror movie twists! The careful Xenonaut commander would have had his troops paying attention to their surroundings throughout. They might escape Xombieville!

If you need a Sebillian for research is it more fun to have to struggle to take him down in the first place (stun resist) or just to get someone to stand and wait for him to stand up and repeat stun like some kind of bizarre whack-a-lizard game until the end of the mission?

It's fun/ tension to take it down in the first place. It's added fun/tension to check out that he stays that way. Do you stand guard, do you leave it behind hoping that you can complete the mission? Can the other troops afford to be left unsupported? Are there other areas of the map that require attention?

Bear in mind that the alien turns a lovely blue colour when stunned. TFTD had you needing to go up to the "corpses" to check.

[erutan]

@thot - if aliens can use their TUs in the turn they awake (go for their weapons) then we'd need to have stuns that work on reaction fire. otherwise it'd be pretty impossible to stun a reaper (though perhaps that could be part of the challenge in doing so).

I could see finishing off a wounded alien if you don't absolutely need them / you can't afford to babysit.

[thothkins]

does it have to be that they get to use those TU's in that turn though>? Could the turn not be them regaining consciousness and getting back up? but that would be that.

If you have a unit within visual contact, you'll see it happening. If not, then you get a chance to stumble across it in your next turn before it's got a chance to get even more dangerous.

Also, it means that a guard you have there with low reactions still gets a chance to take it out. Although, numerous horror movies have shown me people frozen to the spot as their monstrous foe gets back up, unable to fire a shot. There's also the option that the alien regains consciousness, sees the guard, and pretends to be stunned until it's good and ready to pounce, so I'm not against it too much one way or another.

I do think it would perhaps be more acceptable if the soldiers get the chance to stop it.

[erutan]

Ok, I wasn't quite sure how to read "I agree, if they are awake, then they should be going for weapons." We're on the same page.

It does make sense to disarm them, though that does make a lot of aliens a bit useless - not sure if they all have melee attacks? Perhaps they all have some holdout plasma pistol they can access?

[Gauddlike]

I don't really see the fun in watching a stunned enemy that has no weapons until it stands up and then hitting it again.

Even if their first thought is to run for a new weapon they wouldn't stand much chance of getting there with a stun rod held over their head.

Maybe you should be unable to remove the gear from a stunned enemy?

Or at least have a chance of waking them up when you do.

If you want to capture them alive then you have little choice but to watch them until the end of the battle.

In fact you would probably have little choice anyway as they would be classed as escaping and reduce your score if they got up while you were completing the mission by another objective.

Also I am pretty sure the turning blue you mention is just for debugging on the stun, I don't think it will be such an obvious effect in the final game, hopefully.

[Gorlom]

I don't really see the fun in watching a stunned enemy that has no weapons until it stands up and then hitting it again.

Even if their first thought is to run for a new weapon they wouldn't stand much chance of getting there with a stun rod held over their head.

You are only considering the situation where you are dominating the alien. What about the aliens stunned by smoke grenades that are being backed up by their comrades so you can't reach to disarm them yet? What about the time where you are being flanked when guarding an alien so you have to decide if you should run or stay and watch the subdued. I'm sure there are more situations that could be interesting.

Maybe you should be unable to remove the gear from a stunned enemy?

Or at least have a chance of waking them up when you do.

If you want to capture them alive then you have little choice but to watch them until the end of the battle.

In fact you would probably have little choice anyway as they would be classed as escaping and reduce your score if they got up while you were completing the mission by another objective.

Also I am pretty sure the turning blue you mention is just for debugging on the stun, I don't think it will be such an obvious effect in the final game, hopefully.

Being unable to disarm them could be fun.. But I hope i still get to be able to put the aliens themselves in the backpack. just for the laughs.

[GizmoGomez]

Being unable to disarm them could be fun.. But I hope i still get to be able to put the aliens themselves in the backpack. just for the laughs.

That was the best.

Anyway, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to disarm them, as they drop their weapons on the ground when they're stunned.

Maybe they could have a holdout-blaster hidden in their pocket? That way they could still do some damage if they woke, but less that they would if you left their gun on them. That way the player is still rewarded for being smart and taking their gun, but if they wake up they aren't super under powered.

Also, if an alien woke up and counted as getting away because you completed another objective, I'm inclined to say tough luck. Not that I'd like it either, but if you are going to be keeping that guy for interrogations, wouldn't you want to have him guarded to ensure he stays stunned? If he's not important, why not just drop a grenade on him; it's not like they're expensive. There's no point in spending resources back at base, and risking losing points should he wake up in combat, keeping an alien alive that doesn't have to be. Plus you can sell his corpse to get some extra cash.

[Gauddlike]

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to disarm them, as they drop their weapons on the ground when they're stunned.

That is just the way it works at the moment.

It doesn't need to work that way if it would make stunned aliens be more of a potential threat and therefore more interesting.

Not that I'd like it either, but if you are going to be keeping that guy for interrogations, wouldn't you want to have him guarded to ensure he stays stunned? If he's not important, why not just drop a grenade on him; it's not like they're expensive. There's no point in spending resources back at base, and risking losing points should he wake up in combat, keeping an alien alive that doesn't have to be. Plus you can sell his corpse to get some extra cash.

That all sounds more like a justification for permanent stun.

Only the first of each alien type will be useful so after that you have no reason to take back any live aliens (unless you have a commander type to capture).

At that point your best course of action would be to kill them all as any stunned alien would be unimportant and a waste of resources to guard.

It really doesn't sound worth the effort of changing the way stun works so that you have to use more grenades to kill the enemies you have stunned.

You are only considering the situation where you are dominating the alien. What about the aliens stunned by smoke grenades that are being backed up by their comrades so you can't reach to disarm them yet? What about the time where you are being flanked when guarding an alien so you have to decide if you should run or stay and watch the subdued. I'm sure there are more situations that could be interesting.

What about those aliens?

They are covered by smoke and protected by friendlies so you wouldn't be too worried if they got back up anyway.

It isn't like they would be behind your troops and ready to cause problems where you can do nothing about it.

They would be likely to pop up unarmed in the middle of a firefight where you had people covering the area.

If you managed to kill everyone then you would need to go check all of the downed enemies to see who was stunned and finish them off, strip their gear, or leave someone to watch them sleep.

For the second one there wouldn't really be much of a decision to make either.

If you are being flanked then it doesn't matter if the alien gets back up because you will not be in control of that area much longer anyway so risking a soldier to watch an unarmed enemy sleep is probably a bad call.

If you can carry them then I suppose you could always grab them and take them to a safer spot.

I am yet to be convinced that babysitting a stunned enemy is fun, especially if they are no threat even if they do get back up.