Voidfoam Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 In a metaphysical sense i would like to conceive a baby with this idea! Thats how much i like it in contrast to the two-parter solution. The two-parter would of course then have been the barren woman whom i would have struggled on with, due to misplaced love and hope of us ever having a baby. Yet subconsciously i would have known the truth and resented her. I am so eager to see this unfold. It would be great if the inner walls could be painted with some machinery, pipes, lights, and stuff(maybe even animated?). That would actually make the ships look even better than with outer walls. (the facing of the walls outwards so to say.) I think i actually like this better than having the classical solution with showing outer walls. Makes it feel as if you really are inside this ship! Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 My version of the example from the first page, not perfect but I reckon this is what it might look like in game. Ohh, now I get it. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 What? It won't look like that, because they aren't the internal walls - they're the inside of the hull. Only actual internal (i.e. destructible) walls will be displayed, otherwise you still have the problems of the walls blocking visibility like they do at the moment. We may replace the doors with regenerating glowing forcefields like they have in the new XCOM so it looks less random to have a door standing by itself though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Looking at your mock sketch, you would need to include all corridors in floor plan else it would be difficult to navigate. Also maybe make it clear where all the entry points are. You could have a transparent red doorway to show breach points, or have transparent wall outlines. The part of UFO I found annoying was not being able to see entrance points and properly judge Los once the ufo is cut-a- way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 What? It won't look like that, because they aren't the internal walls - they're the inside of the hull. Only actual internal (i.e. destructible) walls will be displayed, otherwise you still have the problems of the walls blocking visibility like they do at the moment.We may replace the doors with regenerating glowing forcefields like they have in the new XCOM so it looks less random to have a door standing by itself though. what if you make the hull inner walls (like those in the mockup by gauddlike) be semi (mostly) transparent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I represented the inside of the hull with internal walls placed along those lines. When the detailed curved external parts become invisible you are left with the internal representation of those walls. They can be used because they will act in the same way as internal walls. If internal walls are going to obstruct visibility that badly then all rooms are going to have those display issues so a couple more walls round the edge shouldn't make any difference, if they don't obstruct visibility (due to transparency or whatever) then it shouldn't be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Can U get a prototype up or a usable mockup that can be tested in quick style ala the maps thread. Even if its just the floor plan for us to experience what it would be like inside. U can add the ufo ontop after. I think it would be hard to judge the system with just scout and corvette. Would need to be tested with all sizes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidfoam Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 We may replace the doors with regenerating glowing forcefields like they have in the new XCOM so it looks less random to have a door standing by itself though. Cant people standing next to walls blocking from sight them be given "glowing forcefields" instead. Some red or green outlines. Or a small symbol above their head showing somebody is standing there. A small arrow pointing downwards or whatever. Afterall you can see their heads. Just make it so that you don't forget them. Showing the inner hull is much to the feeling of being inside the ship. And why would a glowing force field door look better standing by itself than a ordinary door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Gauddlike - yes, we can do it your way and it'd probably work acceptably, but I don't see the need to have the (internal) hull walls there at all. It looks a bit weird to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWP Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 It's not just a combat game, it's about raiding a crashed or landed UFO. Just my two cents, but fighting in a "wireframe world" (even if it's just the hull walls) might be even more weird, or it might take away from the background aspect of the game. And you don't remove walls in buildings. Maybe only hide walls that the player would be seeing from within the wall (i.e. southern), but keep ones you should properly see (to the north)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shima Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I support HWP's idea. I think there should be at least some walls visible (northern ones), otherwise it seems like the soldiers are walking on top of a floor plan and not inside the actual UFO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solije Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) I'm going to throw my support behind HWP's idea as well. I think its the best compromise between Chris' and Gauddlike's suggestions, keeping both playability and aesthetics. Having internal walls is very important to me because I want to have my xenonauts creeping through cramped and imposing corridors with an alien possibly behind every corner, and I feel that Chris' solution would feel much too open, ruining that atmosphere. Edited November 3, 2012 by Solije Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snozy Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 IF the engine can support HWPS idea i like it a lot and go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 My solution ideas- cut away southern wall but leave north walls- UFO's broken into sections so you never reveal the whole UFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 you have forgotten 2 "southern" wall panels, haven't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 LOL yeah the door .. nice catch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Not sure what's going on anymore but I would agree that a "sense of interior" is needed when inside a UFO (or any other indoor setting). Personally, I'd be willing to suffer the inconvenience of internal walls as presented by Gauddilike or at least something to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belmakor Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I like QM's solution best. Something about not being able to see any trace of an exterior wall just doesn't sit right with my sensibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I like QM's solution best. Something about not being able to see any trace of an exterior wall just doesn't sit right with my sensibilities. You mean this one: here? I don't like the extended external hull walls at all. the wireframe is ok for the internal hull walls I guess. but it just looks wierd for the external. And I think high opacity walls (like gauddlike? suggested) would be better than wireframe tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raakku Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Make the UFO walls opaque when a soldier is next to them, it works fine with Chinook. If I understood right, the problem with the outer hull blocks (that you have used to make the UFO:s until now) and the reason why you are considering making the outer graphics of the UFO as "facade" is that that there is not enough "space" for the blocks to curve on Z-axle before the roof begins and you want the UFO:s to keep their flat appearance. It can be solved by simply lowering the height of the ufo walls, both interior walls and the hull blocks and drawing the missing part of the outer SW and SE walls (or blocks) as extensions of the roof tiles. On one-level UFO:s there wouldn't be a problem with the top pieces of the walls "missing" as the gap couldn't be seen under the roof tiles. On two-level UFO:s you can extend the bottom of the outer SW and SE walls on level 1 to mask the missing part of the walls on level 0. Other option if you want to have two-level-high rooms inside the UFO is to make the inner walls full height, but also make four special inner walls with sloping tops: one for SE, SW, NE and NW, that way they wouldn't "stick out" through the seams of the outer wall blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dix Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) It can be solved by simply lowering the height of the ufo walls, both interior walls and the hull blocks and drawing the missing part of the outer SW and SE walls (or blocks) as extensions of the roof tiles. If i recall correctly, one of the reasons this problem has been encountered is that with the game engine Chris is using, the tiles have to be a certain height (2.2m). To avoid the effect of soldiers standing through the walls, you would then need to resize the ships, shrink the internal rooms, or change the angle of the UFO exteriors. (Unless I wrong in that this effect would even be possible, but in either case the 2.2m tile height is a requirement) That said, what about your idea of having the exterior part drawn but fading (perhaps the first quarter), and then simply no roof. Adds more atmosphere than black gaps around the UFO maps, & willing suspension of disbelief could account for any irregularities Edited November 6, 2012 by Dix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Tile height can't be a problem. The outer shell fades out and leaves the inner wall tiles... which are as high as they are. It's an abstract system because the inner and outer shapes don't match well. Trying to rescale something that won't match no matter how you do it is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raakku Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) EDIT: (added this so my post is not only moaning) The view blocking front part of the UFO becoming opaque would be nice, the roof would be invisble as with the buildings etc. I also would rather see something on place of the walls than just black gap. /EDIT I'm not rescaling anything, I'm just suggesting changing the height at which the UFO exteriors are cut. The soldier would not be shown through the wall because the floortiles (some of which would represent the missing top part of the walls) would block it. If the height is not the problem with using blocks of few tiles to build the outer parts of the ship, what is? The tactical view is not in any specific scale, it's more like a symbolic representation, on wich everything is a bit shorter and wider than in real life. And if I would have to guess some exact size for the the tiles, they would be more like 3m high than 2,2m as all the one floor buildings are one level high. But as I said, it's symbolic and doesn't matter. Edited November 7, 2012 by Raakku added this so my post is not only moaning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raakku Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Here's what I would suggest: simplify the the round UFO shape to Dodecagon (12-sided) and make the UFO tiles from blocks of 2x2, you need one for each straight edge and one for each corner, that means only 24 blocks. If you drop the straight edges you can make 16x16 tiles UFO (from inside 12 tiles), with all the pieces you can make 18x18 tiles UFO (inside 14tiles) and you can grow it however you want with increments of 2. to these 24 you can make special ones, but the point is that you can re-use them with different bigger UFO:s and make them possibly destroyable with only 48 different pictures (24 for undamaged and 24 for damaged). Here's few pictures I made with the submapeditor and blocks I rendered so you can see what I mean: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowFox Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) I'm just curious as to why there couldn't be a second map, or a second part of an existing map that would have a linking or a transfer point at the ufo entrance so that when a soldier enters they swap to a new map... or a new part of the map that can't be seen normally? What I mean is when a soldier enters the ufo he or she would be automatically transferred to a 'hidden' section of the map or would load a new map that is just for the ufo. (It's just a suggestion/question and not sure if it has been posted already as I am kinda dead tired while making this post.) Edited November 8, 2012 by ShadowFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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