Debuffs for soldiers that are not fully recovered

[Flo]

I like that you can take soldiers to the field now (V27) even though still injured.

I think it would be a nice effect if they get slight debuffs on some of their skills as an adjustment.

i.e. decreased Reflexes / Accuracy, or maybe decrease on all skills but bravery.  - in some way proportional to the missing health, say 20% missing health -> 10% decreased Acc.

This way you would need to weigh the benefits of the experienced but injured veteran against the less experienced but healthy substitute. -> the missing health alone often does not justify the substitute because a veteran at say 70% may still have more health left than a rookie at 100%.

 

(I would not want this effect on the fly for soldiers as they get injured during combat, that would be a hazard - only when bringing them into a new battle.)

[Chris]

9 hours ago, Flo said:

I like that you can take soldiers to the field now (V27) even though still injured.

I think it would be a nice effect if they get slight debuffs on some of their skills as an adjustment.

i.e. decreased Reflexes / Accuracy, or maybe decrease on all skills but bravery.  - in some way proportional to the missing health, say 20% missing health -> 10% decreased Acc.

This way you would need to weigh the benefits of the experienced but injured veteran against the less experienced but healthy substitute. -> the missing health alone often does not justify the substitute because a veteran at say 70% may still have more health left than a rookie at 100%.

 

(I would not want this effect on the fly for soldiers as they get injured during combat, that would be a hazard - only when bringing them into a new battle.)

It's an interesting question. In the original X-Com the Accuracy of a soldier is reduced if they are not at full HP (this happens during battle too), and I've been wondering recently whether to put that system in the game.

Specifically, they reduce Accuracy by 0.25% for each % of health lost. So if you're on 60% health, your Accuracy is reduced by 10%. Not actually a huge penalty but it's still something.

The reason why I think it might be a good idea is that it solves the problem you've mentioned here, but also solves another problem - whether reaction fire / overwatch is worthwhile against tough enemies. Basically in a lot of cases reaction fire just isn't worthwhile if it doesn't immediately kill the enemy, because an injured enemy is just as effective at attacking you than one on full health. If we use the X-Com system then hitting the enemy with an overwatch shot would reduce their Accuracy and make them less of a threat, even if they're not actually killed.

What does everyone else think?

[Skitso]

I would vote yes for this.

 

Regarding the overwatch issue, I would suggest making the penalty of being shot even more severe for that turn only. So have it be the 0,5% penalty per every percent of health lost, but add an additional 5%-10% penalty for only the turn you've been hit simulating the initial shock and pain.

[Chris]

27 minutes ago, Skitso said:

Regarding the overwatch issue, I would suggest making the penalty of being shot even more severe for that turn only. So have it be the 0,5% penalty per every percent of health lost, but add an additional 5%-10% penalty for only the turn you've been hit simulating the initial shock and pain.

Yeah, that's potentially a good idea too.

[Skitso]

32 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, that's potentially a good idea too.

In addition to accuracy penalty, would for example TU (leg wound) or FOV (head wound) penalties be out of the scope of X2? This kind of light hit location simulation might be nice little detail but probably falls too much into Jagged Alliance kind of territory though.

[Flo]

My issue regarding penalties during combat is that it gives even more power to the party that already has the upper hand and might force an even more defensive playstyle than you would with wounded soldiers already because of the reduced HP and therefore the danger of them getting killed.

I agree it might add a nice feel to the combat beeing more intense and of course more need to avoiding injuries. But I believe for me the anger about seeing it on the own troups would overweigh the benefit of seeing it on the enemy.

Of course I might be wrong and would be happy to give it a try. It certainly would add more depth to combat without shifting balance too much if the penalties are kept rather small.

[Twigg]

I think this would be a great addition to the game and would like to see it happen as units get hit. Balancing it could be a little difficult because you don't want to get into the 'misery' cycle of getting hit -> having limited hit back because of the decreased accuracy -> getting hit again.

[Emily_F]

5 hours ago, Chris said:

It's an interesting question. In the original X-Com the Accuracy of a soldier is reduced if they are not at full HP (this happens during battle too), and I've been wondering recently whether to put that system in the game.

Specifically, they reduce Accuracy by 0.25% for each % of health lost. So if you're on 60% health, your Accuracy is reduced by 10%. Not actually a huge penalty but it's still something.

The reason why I think it might be a good idea is that it solves the problem you've mentioned here, but also solves another problem - whether reaction fire / overwatch is worthwhile against tough enemies. Basically in a lot of cases reaction fire just isn't worthwhile if it doesn't immediately kill the enemy, because an injured enemy is just as effective at attacking you than one on full health. If we use the X-Com system then hitting the enemy with an overwatch shot would reduce their Accuracy and make them less of a threat, even if they're not actually killed.

What does everyone else think?

It's a hard "YES" for me (but must apply to the alien SCUM as well !!).  On a related note, do aliens/cleaners get bleeding wounds like the Xenonauts do?  I feel they should....

 

[Komandos]

If a soldier is wounded, then his physical capabilities should decrease.

[Chthon]

My first thought to this idea that getting hit reduces battle effectiveness is that different weapons would impact a solder in different ways. We literally have different bullets with different stopping powers for that reason. Some would hardly affect a soldier initially, but would slowly degrade their performance due to blood loss like small caliber arms not typically used in war taken to non vital parts of the body, while harder hitting weapons are more typically used in war.

If we were to look at just our war weapons though, we still have to look at the weapons the aliens use and how those would affect soldiers when hit. Would a laser blast have an impact on a soldier? It would burn of course, but initially it wouldn't degrade the soldier's aim. The degradation would set in over a few turns as the heat spreads through the body. Same with a plasma burn, though a plasma burn might have more of an impact and an impact on morale as it'll likely set the soldier on fire partially.

So the way I'm thinking is different weapons would hit soldiers, and aliens differently.

Then I also thought about the effects of adrenaline. Typically after being shot a soldier might get a burst of adrenaline, if the hit wasn't too severe, and be able to continue fighting for a minute or two before dropping. Maybe make it a turn or two before passing out despite 0 or low negative health. It would also reduce the penalties because during this time the soldier wouldn't feel the pain or effect of the hit.

Who knows about alien physiology as well. Perhaps there are biologically enhanced soldiers who have super adrenal glands able to fight for turns after they would otherwise be dead. Maybe make that extreme more rare, but perhaps somewhat less rare is a soldier that can ignore the pain of a wound for some time after a hit due to adrenaline, but they can only run on adrenaline for so many turns on a map before it runs out. A limited supply if you will, after which it is exhausted.

I don't know if mixing real life with this game's fantasy would be fun, but I think it might introduce a few new mechanics which might be interesting.