JA2-style customization?

[ElTee]

Seeing as how I doubt Chris will add such a thing, maybe we could do it? There's a few questions that need to be addressed, though:

1. Other weapons should be able to use different ammo-types, right? Not just rocket launchers?

2. Can more inventory slots actually be added into the game? That's the most vital thing to get a sort of attachment/accessory system working.

-2A. Can items be 'connected' to the weapon? IE: If you switch out the scoped ballistic rifle, the scope also moves out with it? I know at least primary weapons take up both hands, don't know if that's note-worthy at all.

-2B. Other than size, are there ways to make it so you can only attach certain items in an inventory slot?

3. Is it possible to make items that effect the stats of the weapon or soldier?

If all of this is possible, then we really should be able to add JA2-style weapon customization, allowing you to attach scopes, weapon grips etc.

[Gauddlike]

I have spent quite a bit of time playing about with the various xml files and scripts so I will try and answer those questions.

Note that all of this is from what I have gathered, it could be wrong or outdated.

1, They can, the UI just doesn't support it at the moment.

Hopefully the new UI will fix that problem though.

2, I would say no but I am not certain, you could try finding the lua script file (assets/scripts/sequipview.lua possibly?) that controls the inventory and adding some more entries to see what happens.

Even if you added them they would act just like all the other inventory slots, not like additional weapons or weapon upgrades.

Anything more specialised would need to be coded.

2a, No if you wanted an AR with a scope you would need to add a new weapon that had those properties.

You couldn't have a normal AR then another slot with a scope in it that gave accuracy bonuses because that does not currently exist in the game.

To do that the functionality would need to be added by a coder.

2b Some armour types will have limitations to the weapon types they can carry.

Individual inventory spaces do not currently have any kind of limitation on what can be put in them though.

That would need to be coded I imagine.

3, Some armour will give bonus strength to it's wearer, armour is treated differently to other gear though.

None of the weapons/carried gear I have yet seen adds to stats so I would say this is not possible unless coded.

[Hoggypare]

I have to say that while JA2 style of customization is awesome (especially 1.13) I don't think such game as xenonauts really need that. You see, the main reason why customization play such a big role there is because you basically fight in guerilla warfare, so you use what you can scavenge. In xenonauts everything is done in a facility, so there is no need for customization on field. That means I won't say no to different variants of weapons, but they can work just fine using current game engine. You can perfectly do CQB/Marksman variants of guns just modyfying their stats accordingly and altering images.

[meowmers]

i think the equipment is supposed to have more of a generic feel. what would be the point of a dozen different rifles if you are just going to upgrade to lasers in a few weeks. This kind of extends to everything being easily replaceable, including troops, they just happen to have names and faces.

[ElTee]

I have to say that while JA2 style of customization is awesome (especially 1.13) I don't think such game as xenonauts really need that. You see, the main reason why customization play such a big role there is because you basically fight in guerilla warfare, so you use what you can scavenge. In xenonauts everything is done in a facility, so there is no need for customization on field. That means I won't say no to different variants of weapons, but they can work just fine using current game engine. You can perfectly do CQB/Marksman variants of guns just modyfying their stats accordingly and altering images.

Just as you are entitled to your opinion, so am I.

I'm just looking for ways to work with the current game since I doubt Chris is suddenly going to program functions he won't use for the game.

[Gauddlike]

The only way it would work is to make a new version of each weapon.

No form of upgrades is available in the game so none would be accessible to modders without being coded.

For each variant of each weapon you would need to add a new weapon to the game.

You could have an AR with a scope but that would be a new weapon that happened to share some stats and part of the appearance of the non-scope AR.

The same would be true for every additional thing you added to a weapon.

For example if you wanted a scope and a grip to be available on the carbines you would need a basic model, a scope model, a grip model and a scope + grip model.

If you wanted a scope, grip and modified stock you would need basic, scope, grip, stock, scope + grip, scope + stock, as well as grip + stock variants (assuming you wanted the upgrades to be available in combination).

If you were happy to run without changing the ground combat sprites that is not a huge amount of work.

If you also wanted to add a system to upgrade the weapons rather than just building the one you want or getting them free as current ballistic weapons you could use the manufacturing system.

In the above examples you would need to create five manufacturing jobs for the first (AR + scope and grip) or 12+ for the second (AR +scope, grip, and stock).

There is no other way that I have seen that allows you to combine items in the way you would like.

[ElTee]

Can multiple tabs be created? What about sub-tabs?

I mean the weapon category tabs to clarify, like how we have "Ballistic, Laser, Plasma" etc.

Manufacturing system? I've only seen things that are made as a single 'part' in the workshop, like aircraft.

[Gorlom]

Manufacturing system? I've only seen things that are made as a single 'part' in the workshop, like aircraft.

That's what Gauddlike is talking about as well. you need to do separate "single part" rifles for each modification and modification combination.

So there would be 5 separate rifles for the scope + grip modifications. 1 rifle that a grip added to it. 1 rifle that has a scope added to it.

3 rifles that has both scope and grip added to them. 1 rifle would be direct manufacture with both grip and scope. 1 rifle would require the weapon with a grip added to it the same way more advanced weapons require alien materials. and the last would require a rifle with a scope added to it.

The game would treat all 5 as different rifles even though the last three have the same stats.

[Gauddlike]

The weapons would be single part as all current ones are, the game doesn't have multi part items.

You would build 'Assault Rifle' or you would build 'Assault Rifle with Scope' (using the basic assault rifle as one of the materials probably).

It would look like the same weapon with an added scope but it would really be an entirely different weapon.

You could not build a scope and build an assault rifle then combine them.

Items do not work that way so would need the code adding for that to be possible.

The soldier equip screen tabs may or may not still exist in the new UI when it is done.

It is also possible that their number is hard coded.

The only way to be sure is to try adding new ones in the script file and change one of the current weapons to display in your new tab to see how it affects the game.

The game would treat all 5 as different rifles even though the last three have the same stats.

Thinking about it further, as long as the finished weapon has the same properties as another one, you could just set the manufacturing job to produce that existing weapon.

You would still need hundreds of manufacturing jobs but you would be able to get away with fewer new weapons than jobs as multiple jobs would produce the same weapon.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Gauddlike

[ElTee]

Incidentally, can combi-weapons exist?

Say, "Ballistic Rifle with UBGL". It has two ammo-types, and there's an Action to use the grenade launcher, which uses up Grenade ammo?

[Gauddlike]

No, you could maybe set a grenade weapon up to represent it that would be fired by the grenade button on the UI but they would still be two separate weapons.

If the new UI does support multiple ammo types for weapons you may be able to make a second ammo type for your rifle that had an area damaging explosion.

You would need to reload to that ammo in order to fire it then reload back to normal ammo afterwards.

It would sort of be what you were looking for.

That has downsides though.

Range, reload cost, AP per shot, accuracy, rounds per clip, and suppression amount are all set by the weapon not the ammunition currently loaded.

That would mean your grenade round would have to share all of those features (including access to burst fire I think) with the standard rounds.

Also the grenade type shot would not arc like a thrown grenade, it would be direct fire like any other normal bullet.

How the rounds fired act (rocket, grenade, normal bullet) is also set by the weapon, not the ammunition.

[Gorlom]

Just want to point out that Chris has stated that he does not want to make a grenade launcher. I don't think it's a particular technical issue he just doesn't want to do it. I think he doesn't consider it to fill enough of a different role to be viable, it's too similar to both thrown grenades and the rocketlauncher.

(that is why Gauddlike says that a modded version will have to work like the rocket launcher and have direct fire rather than an arc.)

[ElTee]

No, you could maybe set a grenade weapon up to represent it that would be fired by the grenade button on the UI but they would still be two separate weapons.

If the new UI does support multiple ammo types for weapons you may be able to make a second ammo type for your rifle that had an area damaging explosion.

You would need to reload to that ammo in order to fire it then reload back to normal ammo afterwards.

It would sort of be what you were looking for.

That has downsides though.

Range, reload cost, AP per shot, accuracy, rounds per clip, and suppression amount are all set by the weapon not the ammunition currently loaded.

That would mean your grenade round would have to share all of those features (including access to burst fire I think) with the standard rounds.

Also the grenade type shot would not arc like a thrown grenade, it would be direct fire like any other normal bullet.

How the rounds fired act (rocket, grenade, normal bullet) is also set by the weapon, not the ammunition.

In the case of rocket launchers, round per Clip/Mag is set by the ammunition itself, right? Shame accuracy/range isn't subject to the ammunition.

[Gauddlike]

No the rocket launcher is the same as all of the other weapons.

The difference is that bullettype is set to rocket.