HWP Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Especially considering you've received $100,000 up front. $100,000 is just 5 man-years at a living wage post-tax, that is requiring devs to work on enthusiasm alone for a fraction of their labor's market value. More than 5 have been put into this game already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Pancakes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Seeing as how the OP only registered on these here forums just this month, I'm kinda getting the feeling that he's just a troll. Or just one of the younger generation that have been completely absorbed into the "instant-gratification"-ness that had arisen in the past decade. As for the mainpage update issue, perhaps Chris could have some of the longer members (Legacy) write them for him? Strictly volunteer work, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWP Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Or just copy-paste what's posted on the forum. It doesn't really matter how it's said as long as it is there. Clumsy/unedited/whatever, but regular >> fancy but rare updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Or just copy-paste what's posted on the forum.It doesn't really matter how it's said as long as it is there. Clumsy/unedited/whatever, but regular >> fancy but rare updates. Chris could just copy-paste the lovely stickied thread in Community Involvement which is updated by Gnarly: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/2958-Xenonauts-Changelog-thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 wow i thought that the first how-could-you-say-that-chris post would have been in the first 5 replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElTee Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 toggerwof, perhaps development isn't going as quickly for you as you want it to, but if it was moving at the speed you prefer, Goldhawk would have to be mental crazy to release this side of christmas, what with all the big company titles now jostling for position. Even with XCOM:EU raising visibilty, X-Comish games aren't exactly the no. 1 on everyone's christmas list. Goldhawk would definatly be better advised to release next year. Isn't that how it is pretty much every Christmas? All the "AAA" games release in the holiday season, then there's a dry season in the later months of spring and summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snozy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Wow. Not classy. Especially considering you've received $100,000 up front. No dont say that. he is working hard for his money. CHris doesnt have to use the 100k all for the game, some of it goes to his pocket because he has to pay himself to work on the game too. that why he deserved a well treated vacation in a third world country. thats wise thinking Fuck off you selfish person and wait for the game to come out. the slower the better ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 that why he deserved a well treated vacation in a third world country. thats wise thinkingF*** off you selfish person and wait for the game to come out. the slower the better ask me. Well to a point. I don't want to be saying "If it wasn't for my arthritis I'd have got you Caesian!" So a release in a reasonable timescale (less than a decade? can we at least go that far?) would be nice. As for the third world trip, that was just to get people to work on the sprites and tiles. That wasn't a holiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElTee Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Some of you are being a bit too rabid. Chris is an adult and capable of defending himself (if he feels inclined, because I doubt he wants to spend his time on the forum 24/7). Geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWP Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Defending yourself makes you look uncool, since you have to go on the defensive. Having others defend you is a luxury that few on the internets get, but, fortunately for Chris, it's one of the fringe benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko2fan Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 $100,000 is just 5 man-years at a living wage post-tax, that is requiring devs to work on enthusiasm alone for a fraction of their labor's market value. More than 5 have been put into this game already. $100k doesn't even cover the basic yearly salary of a senior game programmer in California. I think people vastly underestimate the true cost of games because too many indies are willing to work on the basis they will become rich and famous in the future, which is so rare that its big news when it does happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katzura Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 What a negative thread this is, the game will be done when it's done, and I'd rather wait another year or two and get a great game rather than have something hurried out. Keep at it chris and just keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterArmadillo Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Cant wait for the end of the week, glad to see the change of pace "developing Xenonauts quickly" however I can wait a little longer to have a finished Xenonauts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesserAngel Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'd definitely rather have a great game late, than an unfinished game early. That being said, I wish at least ONE of the three games I have beta access to (Xenonauts (It's still Alpha, I know), Vector Thrust, Dust 514) would hurry up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 All of this is the reason why I havn't set up any fancy forum like this for the project I'm working on at the minute, even though it could do with some backers. I will release it when it is finished, not because some impatient people who don't know how hard it is to manage such a project become negative about it. Anything that gets released to a strict deadline is usually not worth bothering about due to bugs and the like. The upside of course, is publicity/funding/generation of excitement and I suppose for Chris, this outweights the bad points. I remember my faculty Dean telling us once during a Software Engineering lecture that for any reasonably difficult project, take the time you have set aside to finish it, double that and then double it again. I've found them to be very wise words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yeah, we had a lecturer with that sort of wisdom. Professor Procrastinator was his name. Not sure where he was from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 ls35a - I can be as sarcastic as I like to people who come on my boards and troll me, particularly if they're ill-informed, so don't try to take the moral high ground. What is a post like that ever going to achieve, even if we were developing the game too slowly? Do you think that after reading a forum post I'll magically flip a switch and double the speed of development? If people think this project is moving too slowly it's because they don't understand the realities of software development. I'm happy to explain them to posters if they make a polite post, but the OP did not and therefore got a sarcastic response. The fact that this project has raised several hundred thousand dollars (the OP apparently not included in those pre-orders) doesn't mean I have to grovel when someone on the internet thinks I'm doing something wrong. In fact I'd suggest the fact we've raised that much money means the opposite and, just possibly, I know more about how to run a development team than the average armchair expert does. I've renamed the thread too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah, we had a lecturer with that sort of wisdom. Professor Procrastinator was his name. Not sure where he was from Oh that's not procrastination, it's nearly always true in the real world. Anything good is worth waiting for anyway. I know you're only joshing though, or are you? (in a Vic Reeves voice) ;-). @ ls35a and the original poster, with such negative posts, you have done exactly the opposite of what you wanted to achieve by making Chris waste some time (however small) by having to reply to you. I'm sure you would have wanted him to use that time to better effect to put in a bit more development, no? Encouragement is the best thing for Chris and his international team if you want to see results. Things actually seem to be moving at a fair pace for the resources Chris has at his disposal. Remember - this game is a labour of love, not something that has to be churned out because it has to meet a deadline. Edited October 21, 2012 by ooey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivoune Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm excited about Xenonauts and pre-ordered it because I believe in it, the time it takes to be polished and how the game development is managed isn't my concern considering any soul in its right mind would think the people behind the project know better. That said, when I joined this forum I was surprised at how virulent the general tone gets in most threads, that's why now I most of the time don't bother with this board anymore but for once I'd like to defend the OP a little bit, even if I disagree with the form of its post I think the concern he rises is a valid one and that if he is concerned, a lot more silent people are. A simple and clear answer would have been a lot more clever than quick judgements, troll alerts, insults and sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Oh that's not procrastination, it's nearly always true in the real world. Anything good is worth waiting for anyway. I know you're only joshing though, or are you? totally joshing on my part...or was I?....or WAS I? or was I? Sorry, I think that's a Fry and Lawrie sketch. Or WAS it? >slap< sorry. totally agree with the sentiment as a simple way of anticipating time delays. Encouragement is the best thing for Chris and his international team if you want to see results. Things actually seem to be moving at a fair pace for the resources Chris has at his disposal. Give me a "X"! Give me an "E"! Give me a...whew! this pom pom waving certainly takes it out of you doesn't it.. Give me a >wheeze< Remember - this game is a labour of love, not something that has to be churned out because it has to meet a deadline. Sort of now. With the Kickstarter pennies + other pre and post orders, Goldhawk will be wanting to show they can get a good game out there, and within a reasonable (whatever that is) time scale. They'll want repeat customers for their next project, and will want to have a track record form the back of Xenonauts. That's not at all to say I think progress has been at all slow. We are getting to see a lot of the nuts and bolts here, that we wouldn't normally see. Not to mention folks with delusions about game development. ...doesn't mean I have to grovel when someone on the internet thinks I'm doing something wrong. bah, my argument for including Xenokitties takes another blow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Pancakes Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'm excited about Xenonauts and pre-ordered it because I believe in it, the time it takes to be polished and how the game development is managed isn't my concern considering any soul in its right mind would think the people behind the project know better. That said, when I joined this forum I was surprised at how virulent the general tone gets in most threads, that's why now I most of the time don't bother with this board anymore but for once I'd like to defend the OP a little bit, even if I disagree with the form of its post I think the concern he rises is a valid one and that if he is concerned, a lot more silent people are. A simple and clear answer would have been a lot more clever than quick judgements, troll alerts, insults and sarcasm. Honestly, I think that the OP just worded his concern quite badly (if he wasn't a troll). Yes, he spent money for a product that he was promised to in the future, and is just fretting over receiving said product. However, his choice of tone just drew out the more vocal members of the forum, especially with some of the older members. As such, should he have worded his worries a bit more like a question rather than an [implied] barb against the developers, I'm pretty sure none of the less than flattering posts about him would have been made. I'll admit though, that we reacted a "tad" too rashly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Par'Gellen Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Chris, I'm extremely new here but also wanted to chime in. Don't pay any attention to the OP. I think you guys are doing a great thing with Xenonauts and want you to take as long as you need to make it a great game. I've done game development (doing a bit right now actually) and completely understand how complicated things can become and how much time it can take to sort it out. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems on paper. I am behind you 100%! Xenonauts F@#% YEAH! *does Bill & Ted's air guitar* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) If only I could send XCOM 2012 back to the cooker for a slow burn or a roasting until they returned strategic map elements I would be happy. However much I want Xenonauts I also want it done right. Chris is currently trying to fix a major show stopper bug before he updates the progress. To see a game that actually misses every milestone look at star command. It was meant to be released in the Summer. Edited October 21, 2012 by flashman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElTee Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Well, 154k + however much he's gotten since then is a lot of money. I suspect all or most of the kickstarter money is going to the game, outside of expenses, though. It's dumb to comment on the progress since it's not like we know Chris's business plan or his [ever-changing] circumstances. Outside of the fact he's definitely working on it, at least. Plus, Goldhawk has a very small team to work on this game, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Like others have said here (but not ELTee(!)), $160,000-odd (is it $ or £?) really isn't very much to work with for a game of this scope. Millions were lavished on Xcom, I'm sure. It must be a strategy game in itself to work out what to spend the money on, and what not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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