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Please dont attach with story


Otsior

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I just played demo thru with commander level and it feel like a ready game. One and only thing Im afraid you have to play story every time, its the reason I can't play new X-Coms after first time, linear story just totally kills the playability. When engine is good and gameplay works you dont need story, it develops itself. Perfect example is Sid Meyer and Civilizations, just my two cents.

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Otsior, it´s good that you like the Demo. But an Game without an Storyline is no Game.

You need an Storyline and when it´s like old X-COM, Phoenix Point, Xenonauts 1 / 2, Stellaris, UFO ET 1 / 2, Battletch, Jagged Alliance,or complete new in Terra Invicta, then everything is fine.

Everything else of such Type from Games in that Gerne without Storyline is for the Trash. Exceptions are very little Games (about 1%) like Managers (F1 Manger 202x-Row Civilization-Row, Humankind).

Edited by Alienkiller
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On 2/14/2023 at 9:14 AM, Alienkiller said:

But an Game without an Storyline is no Game.

They are referring to non-randomized story missions. For example in Phoenix Point you always have to fight worms alone, in XCOM1 you always have to save this annoying guy, in WoTC your first encounter with the Lost is entirely scripted. All of these ought to be entirely skippable on future plays imo, except for the final mission, as in XCOM1996. XCOMFiles has some semi-randomized story missions I think?

No one is opposed to the UFOpedia or any other form of optional story.

Anyhow I do love some Brogue and TGGW, and many train/economic board games, story is unnecessary to me.

And sorry, Alienkiller, if there is any tension between us. You are a cool guy.

Edited by Bobit
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/14/2023 at 5:14 PM, Alienkiller said:

Otsior, it´s good that you like the Demo. But an Game without an Storyline is no Game.

Chess. Football. All these games don't have a plot. It is impossible to say after playing chess or football once: I have completely passed such games as chess and football.

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On 2/15/2023 at 6:02 PM, Bobit said:

No one is opposed to the UFOpedia or any other form of optional story.

Just like in chess, a lot of moves create a different game situation on the playing field - in the same way we should strive (in UFO: X-COM) so that a different order of research leads to different game situations. To do this, the number of possible studies must be very large (it is impossible to open everything in one game). In addition, a different combination of studies already conducted should lead to different game situations (a trigger for a combination of studies). In principle, you and I can come up with a mechanic in which at the beginning of the game the player will have "starting pieces" (as in chess), and these pieces may be lost during the game. And these "starting pieces" can be placed differently on the playing field (on the map of the globe). To do this, the game will probably have to start not from one starting base, but from 8-12 starting bases, which will develop differently in the game (depending on the activity of aliens on the territory of the location of military

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That Idea from Komandos goes for Chess or Football / Soccer, where you don´t have an Storyline or similar. For such Games that Idea is integrateable.

But not for Games with important Storyline and / or similar like here. I´m tired to discuss that out again and yet again with People who don´t understand that.

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35 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

That Idea from Komandos goes for Chess or Football / Soccer, where you don´t have an Storyline or similar. For such Games that Idea is integrateable

In chess, you can also compose a plot. Write down in advance all the moves that you and your opponent have to make. In situations where the player will have the only choice with the only correct move (all others will lead to a loss) - give the player the opportunity to make this move independently. Where the player will have many different options - to show the player a video with moves made in accordance with the plot.

A strategy game can't have a plot. A strategy game can only have stages of conflict development.

The birth of conflict.

Mobilization of forces.

Selection of priority goals.

The search for allies.

----

The development of the conflict.

A show of strength.

The use of force.

----

Crisis.

Mobilization of all forces and means.

Preparation for the general battle.

----

A general battle.

The turning point of the battle in favor of one of the parties.

Exhaustion of forces.

The extinction of the conflict.

----

The final battle.

Determination of winners.

 

 

You can only divide the game into stages in which different "external and random factors" influence.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I like the story in Xenonauts. I like there to be a specific goal for things I do and I like there to be characters telling that story. It explains why I do certain things in the game and why certain things in the game is important. I've played a lot of games with no story. Dominions hasn't a story, not really, but it does have something going on. There's nothing wrong with dominions, but I don't want Xenonauts and most of games to be like that. Story can really help a tactics and strategy game, when you want people to feel for the game. This is partly a horror game and there's no horror in it, without feelings or a story that produces those feelings. I don't have feelings when I play chess. I do have feelings when I play Dominions, but in dominions your character has a lot of story in it. Many of the things you do is story related. Dominions can acutally have more story rather than less, because it's hard to define what you are doing sometimes.

Many boardgames created around a story have a lot of storyelements to them. I've played a lot of Cthulhuu games which had stories, like Arkham horror. The game isn't the same without that story. Not everyone will like a story and stories are hard to make, but not everyone will like graphics either. Some people turn off graphic when they play games. Does this mean that most games would be better without graphics? Personally I wouldn't like games like Prince of Persia without graphics or the witcher series or whatever. But I knew a lot of Quake gamers back in the day that took away all graphics, I also know some people don't play the new Dwarf fortress because they don't like graphics.

Whenever a game wants me to have a certain feeling about it and not just be mechanics, then I prefer a story. I can make up a good story myself and in most games I do, but I'm not against having one in them. In total warhammer, I often come up with my own story, because I don't really like the story in that game, but the main story isn't my story. This doesn't mean that I'm bothered by the main story, I just choose to ignore it.

I've played this game for 135 in game days and I have so far liked it and especially the story. 

Edited by Doshniel
One letter missing.
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4 hours ago, Doshniel said:

Whenever a game wants me to have a certain feeling about it and not just be mechanics, then I prefer a story. I can make up a good story myself and in most games I do, but I'm not against having one in them. In total warhammer, I often come up with my own story, because I don't really like the story in that game, but the main story isn't my story. This doesn't mean that I'm bothered by the main story, I just choose to ignore it.

It seems to me that you are confusing the "history" of the game with the "imagery" of the game. For example: UFO2 had a more thoughtful and diverse game mechanics. However, the battles under water (UFO2) are far from our imagination (it does not fit well into our imagination), and therefore, with all its shortcomings (compared to UFO2), the UFO1 game (where the fighting takes place on land) found a stronger emotional response in our souls.

The plot in the game kills the Strategy, depriving the player of the opportunity to independently choose goals and ways to achieve these goals.

Edited by Komandos
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I will shorten that to finialise that Theme:

Someone which don´t wanna Games with Storylines can play them if he / she want. If he / she is satisfied with that, then OK. Then play Chess, Soccer, The Sims or similar without an Storyline.

The important Thing is that this People don´t have to nerve others, that important Games like this, XCOM, Star Wolves, Adventures etc. shouldn´t have attached to a Storyline.

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Komandos: seems to me that you are confusing the "history" of the game with the "imagery" of the game. For example: UFO2 had a more thoughtful and diverse game mechanics.
I did play Ufo2 and I agree that game mechanics were different and that the underwater bit did disturb sort of the way you played. In this case the imagery is indeed related to the story. However the story might need the imagery to actually work and in those cases maybe they are related and not seperate entities. Plot can kill strategy, but only if the storyelement is strong enough. Otherwise they only divert you from the strategy for a small while. I don't want to much story in a game, there's a balance, however I feel like they haven't really destroyed that balance in the game. That said I feel like some things in the game might be overbalanced and too costly making many strategies worse then they ought to be.
This makes for fewer decisions, but isn't necessarily story related, it might instead be balance-related.

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