Turn-based Strategy revival!

[ooey]

I'd class it as an RPG too. So would most. That's why I didn't mention it. Looks a good game though, but I don't have it (if I did I'd never get any work done!).

Edited October 20, 2012 by ooey

[KingBork]

Yeah Id also class Wasteland 2 as an rpg, but a lot of turn based games skirt both the rpg and strategy genres.

[ElTee]

Well, all right then, I'm back to playing the great TBS Unreal World.

Also, I think I still have a really old PC that when I tried to play Half-Life on started it, but produced about 1 frame per 5 seconds. Given that the average turn in Wasteland lasts under 4 seconds, how much will you bid for an opportunity to play The Great Half-Life TBS?

Actually, lag =/= turn based. The More You Know!

[HWP]

Actually, lag =/= turn based. The More You Know!

And, also, it just so happens that:

Turn-Based Tactics != TBS

Role-Playing Game != TBS

Civilization 5 is a TBS. Master of Orion is a TBS. Wasteland 2 isn't. And even XCOM:EU is only borderline, since it's a TBT. The only way it's a TBS is for crude store shelf genre division.

[ElTee]

And, also, it just so happens that:

Turn-Based Tactics != TBS

Role-Playing Game != TBS

Civilization 5 is a TBS. Master of Orion is a TBS. Wasteland 2 isn't. And even XCOM:EU is only borderline, since it's a TBT. The only way it's a TBS is for crude store shelf genre division.

Okay, time to respond seriously since in the last posts you were just being sarcastic.

I don't think there's a significant difference between say, Fallout 2, Jagged Alliance 2 and Xenonauts. I haven't played JA2, but all three are isometric turn-based games where you control multiple characters. The last two also have some elements of strategy.

Even if they're separate genres, I'd consider them in practice to be as different as a FPS and third-person shooter. This is including games like Civilization or Hearts of Iron. Because of that, I think it's fair to say games like Wasteland 2 helped contribute to showing that there is an interest in such games.

[HWP]

I don't think there's a significant difference between say, Fallout 2, Jagged Alliance 2 and Xenonauts. I haven't played JA2, but all three are isometric turn-based games where you control multiple characters.

Well, let me put it this way. For instance, I don't think there is a significant difference between any iProduct that is not a music player, the contents of an outhouse in Ebola River Valley, any motor vehicle made in the People's Republic of China and any sequence of sounds recorded by J.Bbr.

But obviously an AAPL fan, a microbiologist, a communist and a 14 year old girl would each disagree with me.

Who is right on this subject?

Sure, to a pure FPS gamer all of these are equally boring, and even so, to anyone dedicated to any of these particular genres, there just isn't any crossover, since they have almost nothing to do with one another.

[TrashMan]

Okay, time to respond seriously since in the last posts you were just being sarcastic.

I don't think there's a significant difference between say, Fallout 2, Jagged Alliance 2 and Xenonauts. I haven't played JA2, but all three are isometric turn-based games where you control multiple characters. The last two also have some elements of strategy.

Give back you "squad tactics game fan" card.

Seriously.

The best squad-based strategic/tactical game ever and you haven't played it....

[ElTee]

Well, let me put it this way. For instance, I don't think there is a significant difference between any iProduct that is not a music player, the contents of an outhouse in Ebola River Valley, any motor vehicle made in the People's Republic of China and any sequence of sounds recorded by J.Bbr.

But obviously an AAPL fan, a microbiologist, a communist and a 14 year old girl would each disagree with me.

Who is right on this subject?

Sure, to a pure FPS gamer all of these are equally boring, and even so, to anyone dedicated to any of these particular genres, there just isn't any crossover, since they have almost nothing to do with one another.

Appeal to Ridicule, eh?

@Trashman: It's on my list of games to play.

[MasterArmadillo]

Stategy is a PC genre that sometimes makes its way onto console, My original XCOM game was on a Commadore CD 32, I then got a PC and re-purchased the game along with terror from the deep and quite a few other games that really requires a mouse

I also had advance wars on my nintendo hand held thingy and a couple more strategy games on various consoles but a revival is a bit far fetched.

PC gaming is falling away and while it's a long way from the end of PC gaming the fact remains less games will reach the PC as the years go by

[ElTee]

I think the only thing that's happening is some "triple A" companies like EA care more about consoles since console-gamers have lower-standards. But even the future of console gaming is out in the open what with the rise of mobile gaming.

[ooey]

But mobile gaming is primarily for casual gamers. Someone into gaming isn't going to rely just on squinting at hand-helds/mobile phones for games and the limited gaming experience they provide.

Edited October 21, 2012 by ooey

[TrashMan]

@Trashman: It's on my list of games to play.

[ooey]

@trashman - lol! He was on Graham Norton the other night. Getting very old now.

[ElTee]

But mobile gaming is primarily for casual gamers. Someone into gaming isn't going to rely just on squinting at hand-helds/mobile phones for games and the limited gaming experience they provide.

Ouya and who knows what else may change that. Atm, there's already 'game controller' attachments for smartphones and tablets. Compare mobile phone gaming from 10ish years ago and you"ll see a big difference. This applies to all gaming, but consoles are essentially closed-environment PCs with a 'lifespan' of 5-6 years. I think this is why in the last generation, Microsoft was trying to reach different markets for their X360, and we have things like motion-control existing on all platforms.

[Thann]

I think that there is indeed some kind of revival for turn-based games at the moment. There are the X-Com like games (X-COM EU, Xenonauts, UFO:ET2), Master of Orion like games (M.O.R.E., Browser games (JA Online, UFO online), some other games in 2012 (Worms Revolution, Might&Magic Heroes VI), some games from 2011 (Frozen Synapse, Dungeons of Dredmor) and perhaps many other games I don't know of or I forgot.

What I am missing is some kind of roleplaying game with turn based combat like Albion. Anyone know any?

[Dix]

But mobile gaming is primarily for casual gamers. Someone into gaming isn't going to rely just on squinting at hand-helds/mobile phones for games and the limited gaming experience they provide.

Heh - i wish someone had told me this before I lost so much of my childhood on the Nintendo Gameboy!

On-topic - I'm not sure if revival is the right word. TBS has increased & decreased in mainstream western popularity, but it has never really died. (Civillization provides one obvipous example, not including fan-made games like Wesnoth. Which is brilliant, by the way.)

In other markets, such as Japan and China, TBS has remained a mainstream genre, active on consoles as much as PC.

(If my Chinese was good enough yet, I'd happily offer my services to Chris to translate Xenonauts, to see if he could get into the oriental market.)

Edited October 26, 2012 by Dix

[GoodGuyEddy]

PC gaming is falling away

No it's not. What makes you say that? If all your information about games

stems only from the likes of E3 then i may see how things can seem that way to you.

PC gaming is not going anywhere.

PC gaming the fact remains less games will reach the PC as the years go by

Well then fuck those AAA publishers then. PC gamers will just support devs that do make good PC games.

Oh and has anyone noticed the beatufull irony of PC gaming? While PC have the hardware to play games on the highest

graphical settings, only rarely do AAA publishers publish a game worth a crap. And currently the most innovative games are being constructed by indies, and great game experiences are tailored by up and coming devs(or gaming industry vets who start up a new dev team because they don't want to make "modern military shooter 64") who do not have entire millions poured into marketing campaigns. So the most captivating gameplay comes mostly from games that can run on a toaster.(but isn't ported to the toaster)

And i'm perfectly happy with that irony. Because the game with great gamepay but weaker graphics is always better than a bland blend of great visuals and piss poor game experience.

Edited October 26, 2012 by GoodGuyEddy

[Kaguya]

No it's not. What makes you say that? If all your information about games

stems only from the likes of E3 then i may see how things can seem that way to you.

PC gaming is not going anywhere.

PC gaming is everyone's favorite undead. It's been dying for over 20 years now, 'm pretty sure.

[Sinfullyvannila]

You really don't have to squint to play 3DS/Vita. You hold it like 3 inches from your face so that the field of view is comparable to a TV. It really doesn't make any difference.

And Pokemon is about 20 times deeper than the average PC game.

And yeah, Console elitism exists relative to Handheld games. It's funny, because the virtues that Consoles elitists extol(convenience and ease of use) are a much bigger strength than in Consoles.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Sinfullyvannila

[Max_Caine]

For those people who are saying "PC gaming is dead/no it isn't", could you provide some stats to back up those statements? I'll quite happily go looking later on when I have some time to work out who is producing what (I wonder if Steam releases those kinds of stats) but making that kind of a blanket statement really needs something more than just a bald assertion that "this is how it is".

[GoodGuyEddy]

And console trolls are in the house!

PC gaming is everyone's favorite undead. It's been dying for over 20 years now, 'm pretty sure.

Not sure if trolling or very stupid.

Edited October 26, 2012 by GoodGuyEddy

[Kaguya]

And console trolls are in the house!

Not sure if trolling or very stupid.

The hell? Take a chill pill.

It's an obvious joke. Ever since the NES-era consoles have been around, people have been saying that PC gaming is dead. Yet it somehow keeps being relevant after all this time. It's obviously not dead, or dying.

[Dix]

For those people who are saying "PC gaming is dead/no it isn't", could you provide some stats to back up those statements? I'll quite happily go looking later on when I have some time to work out who is producing what (I wonder if Steam releases those kinds of stats) but making that kind of a blanket statement really needs something more than just a bald assertion that "this is how it is".

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/06/steam-sales-increase-100-percent-for-the-seventh-straight-year/

January this year, Steam announced their sales had increased by 100% for the seventh year straight. That do for stats?

[Vivisector 9999]

For those people who are saying "PC gaming is dead/no it isn't", could you provide some stats to back up those statements? I'll quite happily go looking later on when I have some time to work out who is producing what (I wonder if Steam releases those kinds of stats) but making that kind of a blanket statement really needs something more than just a bald assertion that "this is how it is".

Don't hold your breath, it's not gonna happen. At least not on the "PC gaming is dying!" side. Like someone else posted, the doomsayers have been bleating that for decades now, and yet it never happens.

Hell, if anything, things are looking up. Ten years ago, you were still playing X-COM: UFO Defense, because a guy like Chris England would have been just another daydreamer.

[Kaguya]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/01/06/steam-sales-increase-100-percent-for-the-seventh-straight-year/

January this year, Steam announced their sales had increased by 100% for the seventh year straight. That do for stats?

Problem with anything Steam says that it's always "Yup just had 700% increase in sales", "welp, another 200% increase in sales", but they haven't ever told actual figures.

There's very little numbers on digital from any store, unfortunately. I'd say digital already sells (much) more than retail, but by how much, don't think there's any figures on that.