ooey Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) In the past few days, it has become pretty clear to me that turn-based strategy games are back in-vogue thanks mainly to Xcom:EU. I'm not sure whether gamers are just crying out for something different from all the identi-kit shooters and racers that have plauged our PCs and consoles for the last 10-or-so years, or are rebelling against how modern games seem to have become very simplistic and easy in terms of their gameplay (when compared with turn-based strategy -most games these days don't seem to want you to figure out anything for yourself). If people had only looked, they never really went away (remember Advance Wars etc.); it's just that they were in the minority - but casual gamers never bother with such things. There is a great deal of love floating around for the new x-com game at the moment (just look at any games website), which can only be a good thing for Xenonauts and lovers of strategy games on the whole. Hopefully companies will see that as well as being fun whilst being complex, such games have very long shelf lives (the best £1.99 I ever spent was in buying Rebelstar for the spectrum, even though I didn't have a speccy at the time(!) - it STILL gets played today!). If all goes well during this critical time, hopefully we will see new Masters of Orions, Star Wars Supremacys and, of course, lots of Xenonaut updates (with Chris becoming rich enough to create his own Gollop Bros. dynasty!). Edited October 16, 2012 by ooey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBNobody Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Turn-based revival? Not likely. There may be an uptick, but strategy games are very niche. People don't want to think, and traditional TBS games are horrible at multi-player. Those of us who like complex strategy games are few and far between when compared to the general gamer. Seeing how watered down XCOM: EU is, I don't want to see another classic franchise re-imaged for the console crowd. Plus, we've already had to live through one really bad Master Of Orion remake. (Never played Rebel Star, but... I bought Laser Squad on floppies from the discount bin at KB Toys 20ish years ago, and I played the heck out of the 4 missions you had access to.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VolNation Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Seeing how watered down XCOM: EU is, I don't want to see another classic franchise re-imaged for the console crowd. You do realize many players who play PC games are just as averse to any sort of strategy game as console gamers right? It isn't just relegated to "the console crowd". I know plenty of PC games who sit around and play Counter Strike and COD all day. And many console gamers (such as myself) who like depth. Choice of hardware for gaming doesn't automatically qualify you as a pew-pew-FPS kid or a "mature strategic gamer". Edited October 17, 2012 by VolNation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Choice of hardware for gaming doesn't automatically qualify you as a pew-pew-FPS kid or a "mature strategic gamer". There isn't much depth to console games compared with PC games - there can't be, simply because of the default control system. Not in terms of complex gameplay anyway. This is why xcom:eu is bound to be more simplistic than Xenonauts. This was expected since it is multi-format, so it was no big suprise. No turn-based revival? Well, thats what I was getting at when I said that players are getting bored of the same old type of gameplay. To them xcom is something new, and it may just get a good few of them to like it. As for Rebelstar - you really should try it via emulation or something. It really was a special game when it came out around 1986. Lazer Squad was great too - played it to death! Edited October 17, 2012 by ooey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBork Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 There isn't much depth to console games compared with PC games - there can't be, simply because of the default control system. You saying a game like this needs more than two buttons? Right-click + left-click and some way to scroll around your pointer. Even Atari 2600 could do that back in the 70s. No, consoles dont have to be simpler because of the controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egocentricion Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 TBS has been in decline for years with few 4x notable titles coming out such as Rebellion, Sword of the Stars 2, Endless Space (this one is extremely good), and Civ 5. Jagged Alliance 2 was pretty bad and disappointed lots of people. About XComEU, people have mixed feelings, while Firaxis tried to simplify the game so they appeal to a much higher audience ; it surely upset the die hard fans of old XCom series, but we must be aware that the market and the audiences are evolving and that there are very rare cases of big succes for Indie titles (recently Project Eternity which is a mix of Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment got over 4 million dollars from Kickstarter). Xenonauts might go viral and become a widespread game amongst both new and old players, but this is up to us, the pioneers to spread the word around and also help the dev team optimise the game properly so it can be released in good measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWP Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 In fact, TBS has been in such deep a decline that people now call XCOM EU a TBS, even though it belongs to the distinct genre of TBT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaCruise Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You saying a game like this needs more than two buttons? Right-click + left-click and some way to scroll around your pointer. Even Atari 2600 could do that back in the 70s. No, consoles dont have to be simpler because of the controls. Yeah a tbs like XCOM (any XCOM game) doesnt require hotkeys and such to work properly on a console. Its another story with RTS games, ARPG´s and complicated TBS´s like Civ. Those genres will never work on consoles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 PC Strategy game Elitism is annoying when they purposely forget about that rather many FPS players are on PC because of better controls of their own version of PC Elitism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 You saying a game like this needs more than two buttons? Right-click + left-click and some way to scroll around your pointer. Even Atari 2600 could do that back in the 70s. No, consoles dont have to be simpler because of the controls. You are assuming that controlling a cursor with an analog stick is the same as doing it with a mouse. TBS might be ok on consoles but still RTS as a genre is bad for the console controller, the analog stick is just way more uncomfortable then a mouse for games like homeworld or star craft. I mean most shooters have aim assist on consoles! Some genres are best for a mouse and keyboard(space sim, RTS, FPS), while others are better on a joystic(fighting games, racing). But still the joystick is much more of a limiting imput device than a mouce + keyboard becouse of the very limited amount of buttons and the imprecision of a pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 PC Strategy game Elitism is annoying when they purposely forget about that rather many FPS players are on PC because of better controls of their own version of PC Elitism And i find it annoying that console elitists are inable to accept that there are more powerful machines around , and feeel the need to attack PC's when their precious consoles are running on outdated hardware, and their attacks never have any basis in reality whatsoever. It's ok if you like the console, bot going out of your way to spout spiteful stupid garbage just because the PC has certain advantages is just made for starting nigga moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Oh and two games do not count as a revival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 GGE is on a rampage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Are you talking to me or console gamers because there aren't any console elitists here .-. In fact that doesn't even answer to my point, I commented on how PC strategy elitists complain about dumb console gamers and fps players when in fact quite lots of fps players are pc elitists themselves because mouse movement makes aiming faster and more fluid than analog sticks... ^Drunken rampage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Consoles have more powerfull processors, ever heard of blast processing? Don't be mad PC losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Consoles have more powerfull processors, ever heard of blast processing? Don't be mad PC losers. Die in a fire, mkay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Ya know, I'm starting to imagine that GoodGuyEddy actually IS Bender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I think it might have started out as a response to him double posting and trying to covr it up and now he is just going all out with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm not 'elitist' with regards to either the PC or console (X-box 360 as it happens). I have both, but it is blatantly obvious that the PC is better for games like Xenonauts because you can use a mouse (yes, of course you don't really need a KB if the interface is good enough). Actually I was a very long term Amiga fan, who had to come to terms with the fact that his machine just doesnt cut it anymore. I'm not saying such games can't be controlled by joystick, it's just more intuitive with a mouse. I played the demo of Xcom on the 360 and immediately thought it fiddly, and that it would be much better with a mouse (which is why I bought the PC version). I totally disagree with the fact there is no (admittedly mini) TBS revival going on and I hope for Xenonauts sake that I'm right. Have you seen the brilliant Frozen Synapse, for instance? With TBS having been in the doldrums for years, what is happening now DOES actually count as a revival, and if people like them (as they seem too with 'watered-down' TBS like xcom) then this will continue. I think companies are looking for where their next $$$ are coming from, because they seem to be starting to take the hint that we are bored with identikit FPS, dance games etc. As for consoles having more powerful processors - heh! The 360/Ps3 are rather old now, and the new xbox is touted as being about only 3x more powerful than the current one (I remember crying when they announced what gfx card they were going to use, one that costs about £50). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm sorry.(I guess) But half of the worlds population is out to troll me on the internet. I'm maybe kind of venting. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will hurt forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGuyEddy Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 As for consoles having more powerful processors - heh! The 360/Ps3 are rather old now, and the new xbox is touted as being about only 3x more powerful than the current one (I remember crying when they announced what gfx card they were going to use, one that costs about £50). Heheh funny, but even i sometimes am tempted by consoles. They are way cheaper then PC and the ease of use(consoles only and most major advantage) is just lovely. I mean no hemorroid over worrying about part compatibility, no need to concern yourself with software glithing out, and only a red ring of slavery once in a while. Just plug it in and enjoy, that's the life! kmfa #@82^* No don't glitch out on me pc, we're still cool baby. D: I'm not abandoning you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) You saying a game like this needs more than two buttons? Right-click + left-click and some way to scroll around your pointer. Even Atari 2600 could do that back in the 70s. No, consoles dont have to be simpler because of the controls. I'd like to see you try playing a game like xen using an old Atari joystick! They were stiff as hell. There is a simple answer of course, allow consoles to use mice! I think about 98% of us would use a mouse over a joypad with games like this. It's preference, not the fact it cannot be done. Actually, since the xbox has usb ports, does anyone know if you can plug a mouse into it to play certain games? Of course, the game would have to allow you the option to use one, and I guess thats the problem. Edited October 18, 2012 by ooey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Well GGE - that's why I have a console too, as most of us do - for convienience! Actually, I programme mostly but when I do play, I play the old stuff over and over again (like the original UFO, Panzer General etc...). So maybe if this doesn't feel like a revival to anyone else, it does to me. All I'm really saying is that despite the fact I think xcom is half the game xen is going to be, I am so glad it is doing well because this will make many casual gamers realise that there is more out there, and THAT is what is needed to start a revival of a genre. Demand for watered-down TBS will grow, then maybe proper TBS. You want proof my friends? How about the number of new people that have been brought to this forum by the release of xcom? I think the most that have ever been here in any one day has been surpassed a number of days in a row recently. Have a look - it's heartening to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Really, problem is games that are on both pc and consoles Those tend to cause arguments, but games that are console exclusive have no such problem because they are, well, console exclusive. (Besides, handheld consoles are mostly better than "real" consoles as console elitists call them ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooey Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Personally, I hate hand-helds. I would only ever have got one for Advance Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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