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dracopticon

I am an XCOM veteran and have now played XCOM: Enemy Unknown.

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Besides, really, how often did you use more than 1 or 2 grenades total per mission in the old one?
I did this many times. I played a few times that for fun I used only grenades on the harder difficulties after I patched the game. Without the patch the difficulties did not matter. I did this with grenades only for fun but it worked and there was freedome in the game to allow this. This is a good example of how that give the players more freedom is more fun. This is not true about the new game. There is no options except to use one grenade or wear a shirt etc. I became bored with no options.

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I'm still at about mid-game with my very first playthrough (have to do the first alien base raid mission, so I think that's about where I'm at.)

My 2 cents: It's a pretty fun game, but even though I got it the weekend after release, I don't have a whole lot of time in it largely because it just doesn't leave me with that 'must play more' feeling that other really good games give you. Sometimes I get the 'one more turn' thing going while I play, but OTOH I'm also not usually looking forward to playing right after getting home.

I also don't really understand the 'make fewer decisions but now more important' mentality that some of the die-hard fans of EU tout. It's what I consider a type of 'artificial difficulty' because it limits your freedom and decision making ability by forcing these scripted choice events. Abduction missions: choose between country A, B, or C because every time the aliens perform an abduction mission, they have magical 'stealth' UFOs that only perform synchronized landings. UFO interceptions are completely scripted and pointless because you can't intercept mission UFOs (without modding the game anyway, and if you do it unbalances your game because it wasn't designed to actually use that feature.) They're there purely to be shot down, and you're practically forced to unless you want to take a hit to the panic rating. No more can you make your job somewhat easier by being able to prevent alien missions from happening in the first place by shooting down UFOs before they land, instead you're forced to make stupid choices between who to help after they've already landed.

It's just an illusion of choice and freedom. So long as you're careful and 'play smart enough' by always taking the obvious best choice/path, you're basically guaranteed to win. They almost make it too easy to win in this regard, because they make it pretty obvious most of the time what the best choice is. You're constantly guided and held by the hand with everyone telling you what exactly needs done. It can be pretty unforgiving when you screw up, but you usually have to be pretty careless and not paying attention, except when game breaking bugs occur such as the alien squad that teleports in right behind your squad near the start of a mission, or when an alien squad gets TWO free moves after being activated.

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I think you are just dismissing everyone that the one item limit doesn't bother. Yeah, everyone agrees that it's unrealistic, but not everyone thinks that makes it a bad thing. Besides, really, how often did you use more than 1 or 2 grenades total per mission in the old one?

Every non-terror mission I kit out my troops with as many as they can carry. Moving through a battleship is much easier when you are tossing frags through every opening and around every corner. I almost never move without a smoke screen. When my scouts spot anything besides a chrys, I immediately smoke it. Then I move in with frags until my sniper gets into position. I generally keep about 4 veterans in any given squad and fill it out with fodder. Throwing is the second most important skill I look for when recruiting in a new game.

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Besides, really, how often did you use more than 1 or 2 grenades total per mission in the old one?

Lemme put it this way. My guys were throwing around HE packs like they were playing a playground game of Dodgeball.

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I also don't really understand the 'make fewer decisions but now more important' mentality that some of the die-hard fans of EU tout. It's what I consider a type of 'artificial difficulty' because it limits your freedom and decision making ability by forcing these scripted choice events. Abduction missions: choose between country A, B, or C because every time the aliens perform an abduction mission, they have magical 'stealth' UFOs that only perform synchronized landings. UFO interceptions are completely scripted and pointless because you can't intercept mission UFOs (without modding the game anyway, and if you do it unbalances your game because it wasn't designed to actually use that feature.) They're there purely to be shot down, and you're practically forced to unless you want to take a hit to the panic rating. No more can you make your job somewhat easier by being able to prevent alien missions from happening in the first place by shooting down UFOs before they land, instead you're forced to make stupid choices between who to help after they've already landed.

Abduction missions only occur on countries you don't have sats over, so it's not like they are stealthing. It was very similar on the first one, if you didn't have radar, you weren't going to see those UFOs unless you have aircraft patrolling. The aliens will still send out abduction missions, but your sats always detect the craft(which you will see once you get the Hyperwave Beacon, I hear if you let them pass, they will still do the mission, but I can't confirm).

I do really miss tracking down UFOs to bases though.

It's just an illusion of choice and freedom. So long as you're careful and 'play smart enough' by always taking the obvious best choice/path, you're basically guaranteed to win. They almost make it too easy to win in this regard, because they make it pretty obvious most of the time what the best choice is.

I dunno, maybe you are just lucky, or maybe since it's the first time play, you're only looking at the panic level and rewards. I've scrapped a ton of Ironman games and I've seen tough choices.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila

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The game does have a lot of potential, and a lot of fun in it. That said, once I finally complete it (I'm getting close, I think, to winning my first ironman classic) I'm going to mod it heavily to try and put some choices back into the game.

Chance to detect and intercept UFO's on terror/abduction missions before they land? Check

No more rigged panic escalation, by having panic only increase in the countries whose terror sites you ignore, and not the whole continent? Check

Ability to carry a medikit and a 'nade? Check

Soldiers who can carry more than one 'nade? Check

Replacing the (mostly useless) starter pistol with ARC projectors? Check

Aliens no longer teleporting into the middle of your squad at random? I'm hoping so :)

(Side note: If you are interested in modding X-Com, go to http://xcom.nexusmods.com/)

Edited by Dix

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Abduction missions only occur on countries you don't have sats over, so it's not like they are stealthing. It was very similar on the first one, if you didn't have radar, you weren't going to see those UFOs unless you have aircraft patrolling.

That's not the way I understand it, there is a change you need to make in the one config file in order to be able to intercept all mission UFOs (both abduction and terror.) If you find yourself able to detect AND intercept all mission UFOs then it sounds like you're using one of the rebalancing / anti-alien-cheating mods out there.

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?162651-Top-Ten-Things-for-XCom-Vets-to-realize-about-X-EU&p=2234751#post2234751

More specifically:

2.) UFO Air To Air Combat is rare, and much easier. In the old games, the Aliens had to GET somewhere to execute the mission, by way of UFO or sub. You had to intercept them on the way. This game doesn't really work like that -- while they can send UFOs to attack your satellites (resulting in the air combat), it rarely happens. Most of the time the aliens are already at the site.

And a link to one of these mods:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/200510/discussions/0/864948300017084740/#p1

And one of the all-important changes:

Before a terror or abduction mission happens, a ufo is spawned. The ufo now needs to fly to its destination...if you have satelite coverage, you can intercept it. If you shot it down, the mission wont happen after all.

On abduction missions, there are 3 ufos because of the 3 abduction sites which you usualy select after the abduction mission takes place. If you shot all 3 ufos down (very very hard to do), there will be NO abduction mission at all. If you shot down 2 of the 3 ufos, you still get the abduction mission but with only one of the 3 locations to select. This means that even shooting 1-2 ufos of the 3 down, will lower the panic spread by alot.

Its pretty realistic and i just love it.

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It's a well known fact that abduction missions don't occur over countries with satellite coverage. Anyone who plays through the game knows that.

You are correct, but I think you’re completely missing my original point and instead focusing on a small part, and now we’re now arguing the semantics. Yes, abduction missions may only target countries that don’t have satellites, so the only way to stop them completely is to get satellites up everywhere. But on the other hand you can’t also prevent them by shooting down the UFOs before they reach their destination. Until you have 100% coverage, you will ALWAYS be forced to choose, at simultaneous abduction events, which country to help because the aliens know not to target covered countries in the first place. At least in the original you could detect and intercept these UFOs en route because they had to actually fly from whatever base they come from and onto their destination, sometimes passing through your radar coverage, whereas in XCOM:EU they completely avoid this by well, not flying there in the first place (unless of course you consider they could have just come straight out of orbit.)

And that’s not to mention that the whole satellite coverage system feels very contrived and ‘gamey’ in the first place. Rather than having to maintain and secure funding by defending countries, now they don’t pay you at all without you having to launch satellites in the first place. You just wait until right before the end of the month to see which country you need to launch satellites in because countries always pull out right at the end of the month, and you now have a convenient ‘panic meter’ for each country.

EDIT: Assuming of course, that you are correct...I've seen conflicting points of view when trying to find out.

Edited by Castun

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Are you neglecting to shoot down the UFOs? Or are you talking about Terror missions and council missions?

I've been going on about 5 months without any abduction missions after I got sat coverage.

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Finally finished my first play through (well actually my 3rd as I started over a couple times). For me it was fun... (call me simple minded, but that's what it's all about for me). I can see playing through a few times for different strategies...certainly some differences from the original XCOM, but...it was fun...I didn't hit any earth-shattering bugs myself, I enjoyed the "glam cam" and story moments (although I would likely skip most the next time through....I found the sniper a bit over powering but ... boy it was fun to shoot those sectoids through the head from across the map and watch then fall like a rag doll. I've said this before, the original (likely due to the limitations of graphics and program size at the time it was made) left more to your imagination than XCOM:EU and that increased playability over the years for me (the story grew in my head). True of most new games... but that's okay, i don't have as much time to commit to playing as I once did either (darn kids!) ...

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