Air combat and Mechanics Improvement suggestions

[TrashMan]

A good adition to the game would be to get rid of heavy and normal missile slots and just have a missile slot. BUT, in addition, either have a list of mountable missiles in the aircraft entry, or a list of aircraft a missile can be mounted to in the missile entry.

Example for an aircraft entry:

<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">AV.AIM9D;AV.AIM7E;AV.AAMRAM120</Data></Cell>

Or for a missile entry:

<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">F14;F15;F16</Data></Cell>

This basicly allows you to be very granular with restrictions and allow for finer fine-tuning and balancing, as well as a greater weapon loadout. The weapons a fighter cannot mount would simply be grayed out on the list (or not shown at all)

*****

Missile having more than x1 ammo.

This gives fighters some longer-term utility. A fighter that can only carry 2 (or4) missiles is pretty useless.

With the way the system currently works, if missles had x2 or x3 ammo, a single battle would play pretty much the same because of lock times - so you'd rarely be able ot fire off more than 1 salvo anyway.

However, it would leave fighters with enough teeth after the battle to persue another objective - or to defend themselves if intercepted by alien fighters.

****

Special weapons & fighter abilties.

Things like multi-lock.

Basilcy add a entry to both aircraft and weapon

Example:

<Cell><Data ss:Type="String">Multilock3</Data></Cell>

This would basicly give a fighter/missile the multilock ability (lvl3) - in other words it can track, lock and fire missiles at 3 separate targets.

In order to work, the aircraft and the missile must BOTH have this ability...or not.

Other abilities could include long-range radar and guadance (basicly means the lock is attained from long range and you have missile lock at start of combat..only works with long-range missiles), different trypes of tracking, etc..

This gives options and variation.

**

Also, pilots & pilot experience. This a given.

Edited October 11, 2012 by TrashMan

[Gauddlike]

I am not sure what the first part would really accomplish.

What sort of restrictions are you looking at there that aren't accomplished by the cannon/missile/heavy slot system?

Limiting specific tier weapons to specific tier craft is the only thing that springs to mind and I am not overly keen on that idea.

Ammunition values for missiles will probably be changed in the balancing phase.

Sidewinders used to have 4 missiles and avalanche had 2 if I recall correctly.

It makes a big difference to the fighters so should make a reappearance.

[TrashMan]

What? Limiting specific missiles/weaposn to specific craft.

It gives modders finer control and freedom.

Basilcy EVERYTHING the current system can accomplish can just as easily be accomplished with what I say - expect it only requires 1 line in the aircraft entry.

List only light missiles and the aircraft can only mount light ones.

List all of them and it can mount all.

List only heavy and the aircraft can only mount heavy.

Why would I want every aircraft to be able to mount every missiles/gun? It doesn't work that way in the real world.

I don't recall a F16 or a MIG being able to a mount a AIM54, do you?

[Gauddlike]

As a tool for modders being able to set craft individual weapon loads would be nice.

What confused me was that you stated it as an improvement to air combat rather than something that would aid modding.

You asked why you would want every craft to have every weapon but that is not the case with the current system.

The F-17 has no heavy missiles, the Mig has no cannon for example.

The system also allows your lower tech interceptors to be useful for longer than if they had no access to higher powered weapons.

You could replace a lost top tier fighter with a Mig carrying the best missiles as long as you were careful with it.

If the Mig can never get above the Xenonaut equivalent of throwing stones then it is obsolete quickly.

That was the reason I asked what it would achieve.

Your example doesn't really apply to the game as it stands.

You are not replacing one standard weapon for another standard weapon designed for a different platform.

You are replacing it with an upgraded version of the weapon.

It would be more accurate to ask if the F16 would be unable to mount a laser upgraded version of its normal vulcan cannon.

To clarify I wasn't saying I was against the change I was just wondering what the reasons behind the suggestion were.

[StellarRat]

I'm in complete agreement with this. Being able to add new missiles and define which AC can carry them would be excellent addition to the modding tools. I also agree with making the AC hard points generic and letting the missile determine what AC can carry it. Great idea Trashman! But, it's really up to Chris.

[StellarRat]

Why would I want every aircraft to be able to mount every missiles/gun? It doesn't work that way in the real world.

I don't recall a F16 or a MIG being able to a mount a AIM54, do you?

Considering AIM54 was the size of small car that is reasonable. You correct all the way down the line.

[TrashMan]

As a tool for modders being able to set craft individual weapon loads would be nice.

What confused me was that you stated it as an improvement to air combat rather than something that would aid modding.

You asked why you would want every craft to have every weapon but that is not the case with the current system.

The F-17 has no heavy missiles, the Mig has no cannon for example.

The system also allows your lower tech interceptors to be useful for longer than if they had no access to higher powered weapons.

The current system only has only 3 broad weapon categories.

Normal slot accepts only normal missiles - ALL of them

Heavy accept every missile - ALL of them

cannon accepts ALL cannons.

If you don't see how that is limiting, I can't help you.

For example, KV-13 and AIM-9 - both normal missiles. You can't have an aircraft that can accepts only one of them.

You cannot make a fighter that will be limited to only a specific cannon (or cannons).

[TrashMan]

Also, assuming we get pilots (yes please), how would they function?

How is gun accuracy determined?

How would piltos advance?

For one, I think piltos should be simpler than soldiers.

I don't see them needing more than a few stats:

accuracy - make their guns more accurate

evasion - makes them harder to hit

electronic warfare - makes the mebtter at avoiding missiles and getting their missiles trough?

[Gauddlike]

If you don't see how that is limiting, I can't help you.

I see how it is limiting, the limitation just doesn't bother me in relation to the vanilla game.

There aren't enough different weapons at each tier that it is an issue.

There is one of each missile type and one cannon.

Assuming the same is true at each tier the three slot types are adequate.

I also like having the better weapons available to lower tier craft to make sure you can't only compete if you have the best of everything at all times.

For the current implementation I think the system works as intended.

For modding purposes I imagine there will be people who want to add in several different types of missiles with subtly different stats so the change would be useful.

It shouldn't be too big a change and is in line with the changes made to ground weapons to allow multiple ammunition types to be created.

As I said in my earlier post, I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as curious what you wanted to do with the change.

To clarify it for you the suggested change doesn't do much to improve the vanilla game which is what your thread title suggests.

I agree that for modding purposes though it would be a good option.

[Gauddlike]

Also, assuming we get pilots (yes please), how would they function?

How is gun accuracy determined?

How would piltos advance?

For one, I think piltos should be simpler than soldiers.

I don't see them needing more than a few stats:

accuracy - make their guns more accurate

evasion - makes them harder to hit

electronic warfare - makes the mebtter at avoiding missiles and getting their missiles trough?

As far as I know at the moment guns don't have an accuracy.

If the target is in range and within the fire cone then they hit.

Same applies to the missiles as well just the range is longer and they have limited fuel and can be avoided easier.

[goodoldxelos]

The full/max air to air load-out on most fighter aircraft (hardpoint system) should work. I'm guessing the air to air combat system is not finalized?

As for suggestions, in the real world air to air engagements are classified generally into 2 categories. Beyond Visual Range and Within Visual range (which can become what is referred to as a "knife fight"). I would suggest the developers keep these 2 concepts.

Edited October 12, 2012 by goodoldxelos

[TrashMan]

To clarify it for you the suggested change doesn't do much to improve the vanilla game which is what your thread title suggests.

I agree that for modding purposes though it would be a good option.

I would think that improving variety would add to the vanilla game.

If the game currently only has 3 missles then indeed it doesn't do much.

[Gauddlike]

Your suggestion does open the door to additional missiles though, even if only from modders, which does lead to more variety and options when choosing your loadout.

If you haven't spent much time looking through the files (I would suggest aircraftweapons.xml) then there are still things in there that haven't been announced.

At least one of those things leans in the direction of your earlier suggestions.

If you do decide to mention any of the unacknowledged features though remember your spoiler tags!