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Am I missing something?

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I purchased Xenonauts over a year ago now on Desura, and enjoyed it quite a bit, even though it was very limited in terms of content.

I started playing it again yesterday and today, and it seems to be very similar to the game I played a year ago in terms of content..surely more has been done in a full year of development (plus a kickstarter?)

is there supposed to be the same basic map for every campaign mission? or did Desura mess up the version? because I remember there was only one map way back when I played it last year.

note: I've played roughly 12 missions now, on 2 different continents and the map is the same one every time.

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Alot of changes have been made, but yeah on the skin of it the game still plays more or less the same as it did a year ago. however as some one whos been playing all builds since late last year i can say that massive changes have been made.

here is a change log which should help you notice just wants been changed. hope that helps.

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/2958-Xenonauts-Changelog-thread

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What do you mean by progress?

If you count only maps as progress, yes, there's still few. But tilesets number has increased, most are still to be finished and will be available from beta on, I guess.

But progress is another thing, is adding new funcitonalities, fixing bugs and generally giving the player a better experience, making little steps towards game completion. If you don't see this progress, please take a look at gnarly's changelog thread, just to give you an idea. Loads on new things have been added in an year!

If you still don't see them, I'd suggest you to wait until release (or beta, at least). Alphas are not meant to be funny/pleasant to play, it's only adding new things and debugging them.

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For the £15, being one of the more expensive indie titles, there's very little progress in the game, which worries me.

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For the £15, being one of the more expensive indie titles, there's very little progress in the game, which worries me.

What sort of progress are you looking for? Pretty much all the new units are made and rendered, but Chris is holding it back until beta. Same for research and pretty much all the actual content.

There's a lot of work that's been done that isn't available yet for us plebs to play with. We just get to play with changes to existing systems or new systems and features.

Then there's all the new maps to come, due to the dedicated mapper only starting very recently, or there's the new AI system, which isn't something that can be added piecemeal into the game.

Edited by Buzzles

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Some of the things that have been added to the game since v9.4 (April 23rd).

  • Terror Drone alien type (terror mission)
  • Aircraft laser cannon
  • Corvette tiles (currently not working)
  • Andron alien type
  • Female solider portraits+paperdolls
  • Solider surival chance on dropship destruction
  • Suppression system
  • Solider hiring system working through "pool" system
  • Hypervelocity projectiles (currently restricted to AP missiles and precision rifles)
  • New damage type (EMP)
  • Flashbangs
  • C4
  • Alien clips converted to Alienium (so even if you don't get a power source, you still get alienium).
  • Missiles on alien fighters
  • Alien fighters can dodge
  • New system of solider advancement
  • Bleeding wounds system
  • Friendly map-specific solider spries (e.g. cops on industrial)

None of these things were in this game before April of this year, and that isn't the whole list of things added. Nor does that list take into account the numerous bugfixes that came out with each version. Nor does it take into account the times when Chris has consulted with the community on aspects of the game, such as: the new research screen, new barracks screen or new stores screen that Chris has previewed.

EDIT:In summary, what has mostly gone into each new build are systems and bugfixes. If "content" means maps, new research, new items, new aliens - all of those things seem to be saved for the beta, when the systems are in place.

Edited by Max_Caine

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Yeah, just check the change log. There's been a huge amount of stuff done. A level designer was only relatively recently hired post-kickstarter so maps are a bit late to the party but they'll get here.

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There are female soldiers now? Wow I have been away for ages...

Oh AD. :P Yes but only portraits/paper dolls. Battlescape sprites are the same.

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The game really hasn't changed much this year. It's still a mess, in terms of balance, game mechanics and programming. There's no AI, no good maps, and a lot of very, very very tedious ground missions that involve clicking a lot, and almost zero strategy.

I don't see this getting much better, either. Making a game is so much more than throwing a bunch of systems together. I have very little confidence this will be a solid tactical experience anymore.

Goldhawk has had more than enough time to throw together a decent tactical experience. They should be in the stage now where they just add maps and some plot elements. Instead, they're still struggling with the foundations.

It's a shame, and a reminder of why Kickstarters are a bad idea. Don't give indie devs money if you aren't sure they can make a good game. What else did we expect, given that Chris isn't even a programmer, and is outsourcing the game's development to the lowest bidder?

Firaxis X-COM is coming out soon, at least. They're a respected developer with a big budget. That's some consolation prize.

Edited by wiglafman1225

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...

amusedhitler.jpg

Firaxis X-COM is coming out soon, at least. They're a respected developer with a big budget. That's some consolation prize.

Enjoy your console game.

amusedhitler.jpg

amusedhitler.jpg.a399a4b0f2ec82d73f27064

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generic hater bullshit

Wait, so you're saying that, the indi game, being made by like 6 people on a small budget isn't 100%done AMD ready to ship except for the story elements while its stil in alpha?

You are right my good sir. How dare this small group not be able to develope games as.fast and as good as 100+ man dev teams and millions of dollars at their disposal, the only path left for Chris is to refund everyone their.money and dig a hole and hide in for all time because he has proven that he can not only not make a quality release ready alpha version of a game. But he has the audacity to take a vacation instead of slaving over a hot keyboard to get.his alpha game 100% complete.and bug free befor it hits beta.....

Oh wait, that is the most backward thinking ever, nevermind.

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Enjoy your console game.

I ... probably will, actually. It's rare to have a tactical turn based strategy game released on a console, but I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Wait, so you're saying that, the indi game, being made by like 6 people on a small budget isn't 100%done AMD ready to ship except for the story elements while its stil in alpha?

You are right my good sir. How dare this small group not be able to develope games as.fast and as good as 100+ man dev teams and millions of dollars at their disposal, the only path left for Chris is to refund everyone their.money and dig a hole and hide in for all time because he has proven that he can not only not make a quality release ready alpha version of a game. But he has the audacity to take a vacation instead of slaving over a hot keyboard to get.his alpha game 100% complete.and bug free befor it hits beta.....

Oh wait, that is the most backward thinking ever, nevermind.

I don't care what his excuse is. This isn't a pity party, especially since he's promised a beta by Oct. 9 and received tens of thousands of kickstarter dollars from fans sight unseen. I'm just pointing out that his game hasn't made much progress and looks like it lacks basic fundamental game mechanics. It's a complete and total mess right now.

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Guys, come on now, give wiglafman the benefit of the doubt. He clearly has what feels to be valid concerns, and wants to express them, just as people have expressed concerns over aspects of the game they didn't like. The style in which he expresses them does come across as abrasive, vague, assumptive and prefers emotional language but there's no need to raise the forcefields because his his posts are written emotionally. Try and look at it from wiglafman's point of view.

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@wiglafman1225

What would you consider progress to be? There's things like an entire new AI system being built currently, and that's not something you can slap piecemeal into a game. Same goes for the new UI and lots of other systems.

I'm curious because Goldhawk have been pretty transparent with regards to a number of problems they've had, such as former AI developers being rather flakey, or the fact their dedicated tile artist/level developer had to give a months notice before they could start work, plus they are adding and refining things month on month.

I'm also interested to know what you mean by it missing fundamental game mechanics. What mechanics are missing in your eyes currently?

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...especially since he's promised a beta by Oct. 9
What we're shooting for, hopefully, is to be able to announce our beta at the same time as Firaxis release their new X-Com game (9th October - so about two and a half months). We may not succeed at that, but it's something for us to work towards.

1. Read the above quote very carefully.

2. Look up the definition of "promise".

3. Become more acquainted with (indie) game development (in general).

4. Gain common sense.

5. Reign in your anger and holier than thou attitude.

6. Profit all 'round!

See ya at release Wig. I'd invite you to participate in some of our discussions about the game in terms of Chris' updates, community feedback requests, specific suggestions, mods or just in general but you're not really interested in that, are you?

Edited by Jean-Luc

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The game really hasn't changed much this year.

The change log begs to differ. The pace of the change may not be to everyone's liking, but it's pretty clear what's been going on.

It's still a mess,

I prefer "areas for development improvement" myself :) It's less emotive, almost provocative, and more accurate in light of the change logs and forum posts where you can see progress being made on all fronts.

in terms of balance
,

A lot of balancing to be done, although it's not an utter disaster now. You can get through an enjoyable couple of game months.

game mechanics and programming. There's no AI, no good maps, and a lot of very, very very tedious ground missions that involve clicking a lot, and almost zero strategy.

AI is an area that's seeing more recent development. It's going to get a lot better shortly by all accounts and you can see steps already. The "tedious" ground missions are part of the lack of current variety, or "no good maps" as you call it. Following the map progress over the builds I've seen lots of improvements, in that we're not fighting a barn any more. The maps can be added once the mechanics are in place. That makes sense, surely?

The necessity of strategy will come with the AI and the map variations, so it's no surprise that that's lacking currently. Having said that, I got wiped out in my first terror mission and my first alien base, so they're doing something right. No, I'm not pants at it :)

I don't see this getting much better, either. Making a game is so much more than throwing a bunch of systems together. I have very little confidence this will be a solid tactical experience any more.

Having peeked at the files and having read the posts, I don't see the evidence to suggest that it won't get much better. The UFO's being redone as multi level missions shows the large changes that still have to be undertaken in the game, so it's obviously going to take a while longer than predicted. Which is even longer than previous hopes for a release. That can be a frustration, but it's simply not the case that it won't improve. Not when we can see it improving all the time.

Goldhawk has had more than enough time to throw together a decent tactical experience. They should be in the stage now where they just add maps and some plot elements. Instead, they're still struggling with the foundations.

I'm not sure how fast games, with the resources Goldhawk have, must run in order to meet your requirements. I imagine that each game is different and has it's own issues. I don't think I've ever read anyone here say "Hey, you guys have been sitting on your butts all month." Perhaps you could share project management tips for where the game should be? I'm not being facetious there, it would be interesting to see a take on it.

(I was going to use "You guys have been on exotic holidays over the last month", but that would have been a bad example. Not to mention that the team can still function and meet deadlines as Chris "isn't even a programmer." )

It's a shame, and a reminder of why Kickstarters are a bad idea.

Apart from all the delighted people getting to make their dream projects and all the delirious fans who get to see their favourites released, you mean?

Don't give indie devs money if you aren't sure they can make a good game.

I think there was enough shown to convince me that Goldhawk could make a decent stab at giving me a good game. Not quite as tried and tested as some other kickstarter companies, I agree. But all the development prior to Kickstarter was more than enough to really show the game off to prospective funders. The art, the game play in the demo. Much better than the Kickstarters that haven't got off the ground really, surely?

"What else did we expect,"

Ah, I think your expectations and time scales may be at variance with a lot of others on this one.

"given that Chris isn't even a programmer, and is outsourcing the game's development to the lowest bidder?"

No Chris chose not to go with my Photo shopped Xenokittens ideas, so it didn't go to the lowest bidder. Second lowest maybe... Do we have sauce on that? Are small Indonesian children being forced to paint tiles on this game?

Firaxis X-COM is coming out soon, at least. They're a respected developer with a big budget.

Yes they are and yes they have. Yes it looks to be a good game. A game that has been in development for a long while at that big, respected, well resourced company. And there has been a fair amount of squealing over some of the issues they had, despite all that resource.

That's some consolation prize

I don't see them as an either/or. Both should be good games.

Hopefully, you'll be willing to post on the forums as the game progresses over the next few months. No harm in having constructive criticisms over a number of the elements you raised above.

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Hopefully, you'll be willing to post on the forums as the game progresses over the next few months. No harm in having constructive criticisms over a number of the elements you raised above.

This is precisely why I requested that wiglafman1225 start a thread to pick apart the game as it stands. I, for one, would like to hear what Chris has to say about the issues he has brought forth.

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This is precisely why I requested that wiglafman1225 start a thread to pick apart the game as it stands. I, for one, would like to hear what Chris has to say about the issues he has brought forth.

Not sure if you were here at the time but we already had this discussion.

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This post below is very well-reasoned and mature as a response to my criticisms. Thanks very much for taking the time! We will see how things pan out in the following months.

The change log begs to differ. The pace of the change may not be to everyone's liking, but it's pretty clear what's been going on.

I prefer "areas for development improvement" myself :) It's less emotive, almost provocative, and more accurate in light of the change logs and forum posts where you can see progress being made on all fronts.

,

A lot of balancing to be done, although it's not an utter disaster now. You can get through an enjoyable couple of game months.

AI is an area that's seeing more recent development. It's going to get a lot better shortly by all accounts and you can see steps already. The "tedious" ground missions are part of the lack of current variety, or "no good maps" as you call it. Following the map progress over the builds I've seen lots of improvements, in that we're not fighting a barn any more. The maps can be added once the mechanics are in place. That makes sense, surely?

The necessity of strategy will come with the AI and the map variations, so it's no surprise that that's lacking currently. Having said that, I got wiped out in my first terror mission and my first alien base, so they're doing something right. No, I'm not pants at it :)

Having peeked at the files and having read the posts, I don't see the evidence to suggest that it won't get much better. The UFO's being redone as multi level missions shows the large changes that still have to be undertaken in the game, so it's obviously going to take a while longer than predicted. Which is even longer than previous hopes for a release. That can be a frustration, but it's simply not the case that it won't improve. Not when we can see it improving all the time.

I'm not sure how fast games, with the resources Goldhawk have, must run in order to meet your requirements. I imagine that each game is different and has it's own issues. I don't think I've ever read anyone here say "Hey, you guys have been sitting on your butts all month." Perhaps you could share project management tips for where the game should be? I'm not being facetious there, it would be interesting to see a take on it.

(I was going to use "You guys have been on exotic holidays over the last month", but that would have been a bad example. Not to mention that the team can still function and meet deadlines as Chris "isn't even a programmer." )

Apart from all the delighted people getting to make their dream projects and all the delirious fans who get to see their favourites released, you mean?

I think there was enough shown to convince me that Goldhawk could make a decent stab at giving me a good game. Not quite as tried and tested as some other kickstarter companies, I agree. But all the development prior to Kickstarter was more than enough to really show the game off to prospective funders. The art, the game play in the demo. Much better than the Kickstarters that haven't got off the ground really, surely?

"What else did we expect,"

Ah, I think your expectations and time scales may be at variance with a lot of others on this one.

"given that Chris isn't even a programmer, and is outsourcing the game's development to the lowest bidder?"

No Chris chose not to go with my Photo shopped Xenokittens ideas, so it didn't go to the lowest bidder. Second lowest maybe... Do we have sauce on that? Are small Indonesian children being forced to paint tiles on this game?

Yes they are and yes they have. Yes it looks to be a good game. A game that has been in development for a long while at that big, respected, well resourced company. And there has been a fair amount of squealing over some of the issues they had, despite all that resource.

I don't see them as an either/or. Both should be good games.

Hopefully, you'll be willing to post on the forums as the game progresses over the next few months. No harm in having constructive criticisms over a number of the elements you raised above.

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