Integrate community sub-maps into release by voting about them

[Kreny]

Hey,

I tried to search this forum for my idea but was not successful (this doesn't mean I am not dump)

Inspired how this is done in Rise of Flight with community skins - it would be great if there will be possibility of voting about integrating sub-maps created by community into game. This would greatly increase sub-maps library and thus levels would be more random.

It should looks like following : there will be separate thread for each sub-map and creator of sub-map will post source code as well as screen shots and some justification of this map. And we will vote if we wants to have this in the game or not. If there will be at least 50 or 100 votes then result will be valid.

These sub-maps could also be added in form of patches after release

What do you think guys?

[Gorlom]

I think Chris is going to be against it for legal reasons. I don't think he can sell community generated stuff without risking a lawsuit (unless he employs those people or buy those maps).

I think mappers just releasing their maps free on the forum or mod hosting sites is preferable to the hassle that comes with trying to get community made stuff into the official release.

Edit: although I'm not sure about all this, I could be wrong...

Edited October 3, 2012 by Gorlom

[gnarly]

In addition to Gorloms thoughts, and along a similar line, by Chris adding these community maps to his product, he would therefore be taking responsibility for any issues encountered on said maps. Which I doubt he'd fine appealing, nor the map maker.

This again is really the provenance of mods; they are still controlled by the map maker, who can therefore update them as they wish based on feedback they receive, without having to wait for Goldhawk to do another release.

[Kreny]

if these sub-maps will be released under some BSD-like lisense then legal problems are solved. Also some integration testing of these maps will be needed but community can help with this. But still I think there can raise many great and complex sub-maps

and higher level is community tile sets

[Gorlom]

if these sub-maps will be released under some BSD-like lisense then legal problems are solved. Also some integration testing of these maps will be needed but community can help with this. But still I think there can raise many great and complex sub-maps

and higher level is community tile sets

I have no idea what a BSD-like license is.

[Kreny]

generaly there are lisenses which allows to lock and sell open source such as BSD lisense. Point of that post was, that lisensing is not at obstacle

[Gauddlike]

Would that type of license work when the rest of the game is not covered by the same license?

I would suggest that a community map pack be put together instead.

Their could be multiple map packs, maybe one for each tile set?

The top 5 levels and top 10 submaps of each tileset would be integrated into these map pack releases rather than added to the vanilla game.

This solves any issues with adding content in to the game and removes responsibility for them from the devs while still achieving what you want I think.

[dJm]

BSD License

My legalese isn't the best, but I guess it really depends on xenonauts' license. Most other games tell you what you can and can't do with your mods, so you'll have to base your license around those restrictions. I think bsd would work, as long as it doesn't contain any data/media from Xenonauts.*where is Xenonauts' license information anyway? Can't find it anywhere.*

plus keeping it as a mod would draw more people to the forums, which is always a good thing.

Edited October 4, 2012 by dJm
researched it a bit more

[Kreny]

but how would you separate good from bad ones if it would be as a mod? Without some approval process (like community voting) there will be mess I think.

it can be kept as some "official community expansion pack" but there should be some decissions done what to include and what not.

[dJm]

Hmm your probably right, but I think it's a bit too soon to be talking about the "official community expansion pack" before the game has even reached beta stage lol. not bashing the ideal, but alot can change from alpha to beta.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to setup a mod repository of some kind though. some of them have voting systems built in too, so that would help sort out the most popular mods.

but it's just way to early to be thinking of expansion packs. the community is still growing and It may just be wiser to wait until the game is near released/late beta before discussing this. Also by then the community will probably be much bigger and there will be a much larger assortment of mods to choose from.

Edited October 4, 2012 by dJm
..so ..many ...errors EDIT:need SLEEP

[Gorlom]

but how would you separate good from bad ones if it would be as a mod? Without some approval process (like community voting) there will be mess I think.

it can be kept as some "official community expansion pack" but there should be some decissions done what to include and what not.

description by the modder and reviews and comments from people that tried it.

In maps a screenshot of the map or submap should be enough.

I think it will be harder to separate the good from the bad if they come in big "official community" (isn't that an oxymoron?) packs.

As the community grows it's going to be hard to check everything and a lot of good creations will be overlooked because they aren't part of an "official" pack. And they might never be for whatever reason.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Gorlom

[Kreny]

just my opinion but I am quite confident that many users, if not most, do not want to manually check 1000 sub-maps. They just want one/two/three expansion pack(s) which they can install and increase randomness of ground battles.

[Gauddlike]

I was not really talking about Goldhawk making a community map pack or any kind of official action by them.

I was suggesting that if someone wanted to make a thread where people could post and vote on submaps or levels then that person could also stick the vote winners together in a zip and that would be a community map pack.

It really is too early though, a lot of the tiles don't really work yet.

Once they are in a usable state I might make a few buildings myself, It was something I always wanted to do in x-com and takes me back to making warhammer and 40k scenery

[Gorlom]

wouldn't just hosting it on xenolith or some other mod hosting site with a voting function and sorting by rating solve the "how would one know what is good without going through 1000s of maps" problem?

(would those people you describe even be looking for maps? Once the officially made maps are in the game wouldn't those be enough for many, if not most, users?)

I'm sorry I'm not trying to dump on your idea. But I don't see the point of selling the content or creating some official verification system when it can be done for free (and as I see it easier) by the modders and users themselves.

If someone want to compile maps into bigger packs they could just contact the modder ask if they may include their work in a map pack and call the pack "<name>'s choice" or whatever. (they just need to remember crediting the creators)

That at least happens with starcraft maps and wow addons as far as I know.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Gorlom

[Gauddlike]

It has been a pretty common thing for a long time.

it was also pretty much what I was suggesting

[Kreny]

but I didn't said a word about selling these packs. Only that people could welcome these map packs as extension of current game. And with some voting system, we could sort good maps from worse and compile them into packs so it will be accessible for common users

[ElTee]

Although I'm sure the devs might feel otherwise from a business perspective, I absolutely loathe the idea of selling map-packs for DLC. It's EA-tier.

[Kreny]

Although I'm sure the devs might feel otherwise from a business perspective, I absolutely loathe the idea of selling map-packs for DLC. It's EA-tier.

noone said/suggested anything about selling. People do not spread this kind of information. This thread is just about suggeation how community maps could integrate with game. FOR FREE

[Oathbreaker]

Can't Goldhawk buy the maps for $0.01 or somesuch?

[Kreny]

Can't Goldhawk buy the maps for $0.01 or somesuch?

but why? there is no need of buying anything. It all deppends on under which lisense these maps will be published

[HWP]

Most games that are heavily moddable tend to get joint overhauls compiled within about a year of the game's release.

Searching for best single maps won't do. It's not enough for them to be good, they also need to be balanced. A super-hard map can be very good, but imagine getting it on your third mission. Just far enough into the game that you don't want to restart, but just soon enough to get 3/4 of your squad killed.

These compilations will be have to be done by individuals. Sometimes voting is good, other times a single voice is better. With compiling a map pack, I think it's the latter, one player's perspective. You aren't going to get 50/100 votes for each map, it would mostly be a few votes, too much random noise.

But I think it would be good to ensure that can happen. For instance stating in EULA that maps created with the editor can only be distributed under a free license (e.g. no more restrictive than CC-BY-SA), similar things can be done and have been done. It might let down a few people who get overly proprietary about their work (not like we want them to be sold anyway), but in favor of a greater good, greatly reduced hassle for map pack makers, because they only have to give credit, not ask every mapmaker personally.

Edited October 11, 2012 by HWP

[zzz1010]

It's not enough for them to be good, they also need to be balanced. A super-hard map

what do you mean calling map "hard" in xenonauts? I can't imagine what can make map hard or easy, hardness is depend on level, type and count of enemies, I think. Maps do nothing with this, or enimies placing - all this is governed by different layer- map is just battleground where aliens and you fight each other. If there some place what some way give advantage it will work both way, and for you and for aliens. Especialy submaps - can't imagine what building placed on map drasticaly change it's difficulty for player. Maybe I just don't see. Only difficult map i can imagine is bare, whole map, plane at night. Maybe i just did'n have enougt imagination - it will be intresting to see such submap.

Anyway, I think you involve too much bureaucracy. I prefer nexus way(or steam workshop, or anything else). People just share their work and other just download them. And I see voting center disssution but didn't see significant amount of maps\ submaps there(I know why but anyway). It more usefull to make maps then organise elections. Good things become popular(at least in the same way as voting), I understand -you think such integration(more content) can make project more successfull, and many peoples too lazy( or doubt) for mods. But didn't see noticeable amount of maps to make sense or too much the need for them by Chris to disscuse about this. Just my point, sorry if i'm too sceptical

Edited October 18, 2012 by zzz1010