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[Gameplay Suggestion] Chinook Range


TornadoADV

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Refueling at local airports is a good idea too, however, the only problem I have with that and the whole long range Chinook thing is that the Chinook only has a range of a four hundred miles. It would have to stop for refueling every 2.5 hours. That's crazy. Add maintenance problems and you'd never reach any terror site more than a 2000 miles or so away. Hence, my opinion that the Xenonauts ought to use long range jet transports (C-5A) in combination with the Chinook. That would give them thousands of miles of range and it all fits within the 1970's timeframe.

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According to wikipedia long range jet transports' range isn't much longer - around 2500 miles (more or less for C-5 and C-141). Anyways F17 range is around 3000 miles, which is much closer than it is in the game. It's sad that the game isn't realistic about these values, but it looks like developers choose to sacrafice realism in favour of game mechanics.

Edited by Wormer
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People here are complaining that range is already too short.

If realistic ranges were used they would be significantly shorter than they are at the moment.

Realism only takes a game so far.

You can adjust the values yourself in the game files and see just how it plays with realistic ranges, then give us some feedback on if you think it makes things better or not.

I would be interested to know.

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People here are complaining that range is already too short.

If realistic ranges were used they would be significantly shorter than they are at the moment.

Realism only takes a game so far.

You can adjust the values yourself in the game files and see just how it plays with realistic ranges, then give us some feedback on if you think it makes things better or not.

I would be interested to know.

Obviously, with the current programming it's going to make the game much harder. Impossible would be my guess. Since we don't have the means to refuel or transport with a different aircraft. Using the Chinook with realistic ranges alone one can only operate within the borders of one European country in all likelihood.
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Why? The C-5 can transport a Chinook and was available within the time frame of the game.

Because C-5 was in low IOP deployment and still getting the bugs worked out? The C-141 is better in everyway, it can carry troops AND air deployable vehicles. It's faster, uses less fuel and has a smaller logistics footprint.

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People here are complaining that range is already too short.

If realistic ranges were used they would be significantly shorter than they are at the moment.

Realism only takes a game so far.

You can adjust the values yourself in the game files and see just how it plays with realistic ranges, then give us some feedback on if you think it makes things better or not.

I would be interested to know.

Allow us to 1. land aircrafts at local airports and military bases for refueling, 2. call for a tanker aircraft from local airports and military bases. This may cost money and cost may depend on the standing with the country. Technically aircarfts may reach almost any point on earth from the very beginning, it's only a matter of time and cost. As the time goes standing with countries increases, cost reduces and aircrafts become faster. Make UFOs flying slower when on a mission, they have no need to develop their maximum speed without need. Make them stay longer on their missions for balancing purposes since it may take more time to reach the location now. Let us leave aircrafts at airports and prebuilt military bases for a substaintial fee. Let aliens to 1. discover and 2. later in the game attack and destroy these bases.

As a side note, not every UFO detected is meant to be intercepted. It's a hard task to detect and intercept an UFO after all.

Edited by Wormer
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Well i will throw my two cents in. Chinooks or starter transports need better range somehow. It is very frustrating to see world collapsing no matter what you do and as realistic as it may be it doesn't make the game any more fun! :) I really don't care how you justify it, I think it would be a great addition to extend the range (fuel pods, extra cost to have a refuel ship launched, pay for a gas stop in India..., whatever it takes!)

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Hello,

had the same "hey it is out there" and chinook pilot says nah, too far forget it.. scenarios.

Reading the suggestions... i see few things would like to point out as potentials of choices... if i had my way.

time to land, time to fuel chinook... should be same as occurr at hangar-base.

drop tanks, I believe dont exist for chinooks.

However historically in past with military choppers; they will consider to carry extra gas cans (land and refuelling), upon told of mission-plan. I suspect they would do the same with chinooks, carrying extra fuel drums. just sacrifice several square of space to do this. There are limits, cant land in ocean to do this thus cant cross major oceans.

[have to add time to travel {to land, roll out drums, and fuel}]

I would bet there might be some helicopter mechanic that could rig some kind of haphazard plumbing to hot-fuel the chinook. so once modified, chinook flying without extra tank/drum still have a lost space due to haphazard plumbing, but is ready for long distance travel, by loading on extra fuel tank/drum. I suspect ocean crossing is not possible either due to distance and the "space tradeoff"

[this would require space 'for the plumbing', plus space for fuel tank/drum, plus time to fill up extra tank/drum]

I also note, with smaller bases (ie radar), they would already have jeeps, truck lorries, construction equipment, generators, fuel tanks, some lone wazzoo guy's to work vechicle, etc (wait a minute did i say there fuel tanks for generator. Bingo!) Chinooks could land on a roadway and fuel up from the base' fuel tanks. I would imagine trade off here is moderate lost travel time {land nearest xeno's base, and time to refuel} and more time involving fuelling up extra tanks. This might might could do ocean crossing... if xeno base is on coast.

[time taken to land, and fuel for normal tank, twice if extra tank.]

if we went with leasing transport, loading chinoook method,

there are drawback here, disassembly and reassembly is required, this cost huge huge amount of time (compared to filling up the tanks above). I note from various sources, usually takes like 1 to 2 weeks... (gahhh!!!)

[fuel cost for transport, hangar space {loading for transport}, engineer taken from workshop, time to disassemble & reassemble, can do ocean crossing, fuel cost for chinook]

own a transport (minus chinook) with smaller soldier-equpiment team, just commandeer for "paradrops" or ground "vechicles" from nearby city.this might cost least time, but I am sure politicians would prefer to spend 100,000 for that rather than launch a nuclear war head. (gahhh!!!)

[hangar for transport, aircraft mainteance cost, paradropping/vechicle programming code, larger fuel cost for transport]

so take your pick!!! or curse alien for dropping outside range.

R

Edited by rynait
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Hello,

for those with statistic buffs; to fly across pacific ocean, (to touch down on nearest landmass), 5,000 miles.

note of interest starting 1962/63

chinook (a) 1962 carry 7t, weighs 16.5t

chinook © 1967 carry 7.5t, weigh 23t (difference is range)

chinook (d) 1982 carry 12t, weigh 25t

mfg model yr ; carry #ton (range)

Antonv, An-12, 1957; 20t (5,700 miles)

Antonv, An-22, 1965; 80t (5,000 miles)

de Haviland, c-7, 1958; 3.6t ( 2,000 miles)

douglas, C-47, 1943; 3t (2,600 miles)

grumann, C-2, 1964; 4t (2,400 miles)

fairchild, C-123, 1949; 11t (1,666 miles)

lockheed C-5 1968; 122t (4,445 miles)

lockheed c-130 1954; 20t (3,800 miles)

lockheed c-141 1963; 45t (9,880 miles)

Allianz c-160 1963; 16t (1,850 miles)

with specs, clearest preference (due to time in service) to transport chinook is [modified] Antonov A-12, lockheed c130, lockheed c141.

for smallest transport (not chinook.), would have to carry at least 3.5t without vechiles,

de Haviliand from Canada, and would not cross pacific ocean safely.

gruman c2, will have to do a island hop to cross pacific ocean safely.

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That would be realistic, but require effort on developers' part.

I have a simpler to implement suggestion: instead of dropping dead once they exceed their range, aircraft would slow down severely if they have to fly past their range, to simulate refueling stops or IAR (also takes time). Best if slowdown is intermittent but to zero.

A Chinook wouldn't be able to cover even one good-sized country without refueling anyway.

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Not a big effort.

Citites are already on the map.

All that's needed is the refueling ability aded to them.

Either way you put it, a Chinnok really shouldn't have the continental range.

At least for fighter planes there is Air Refueling options (which I don't think work for helicopters, but they can always land anywhere)

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Though... that chinook is full of quite a bit of fuel. A normal Chinook can carry 50 soldiers and then-some. Only being able to carry less than half of that, that must be a LOT of fuel! More than double, methinks! Even with 3x it's real range, though, it wouldn't even be able to cross the US, and that would be one-way only! :P

And there IS mid-air refuelling for Chinooks IRL! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook#MH-47D)

Edited by Andeerz
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Though... that chinook is full of quite a bit of fuel. A normal Chinook can carry 50 soldiers and then-some. Only being able to carry less than half of that, that must be a LOT of fuel! More than double, methinks! Even with 3x it's real range, though, it wouldn't even be able to cross the US, and that would be one-way only! :P

And there IS mid-air refuelling for Chinooks IRL! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook#MH-47D)

BUT, helicopters are notoriously unreliable. Even with lots of fuel, you would in all likelihood get hung up somewhere for maintenance hours and hours while making a long trip. Plus the CH-47 is very slow compared to a jet. It would take days to reach some places. It simply isn't practical. That's why I suggested a big cargo jet take the whole XCom squad, CH-47, equipment and vehicles to someplace close to the alien incident then the team proceeds in using the CH-47 for the final leg.
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Yeah. That would make some sense. I don't know, though. The only aircraft I could think of that might be able to carry everything would be a C-5, but how would the logistics of all that play out?
Well I figured since the Xenonauts already have access to cargo planes to move their fighters and equipment between bases there was no reason they couldn't use them to get close to a site when needed. C-141 and C-5 have both been verified as in the right time period and capable of transporting a CH-47 when only the rotors folded.
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