Maps

[Skitso]

Even at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have to once again criticize tactical maps we currently have in X2. Many of them still feel like shooting galleries instead of real places. Maps need more:

• Verticality
• Visual story telling. Have the map itself say something about what has happened.
• Does this place feel like a real place or a map in a game?
• Larger, more interesting buildings with many floors.
• More urban maps. (tends to be more interesting than a random jungle)
• Variable pacing: large open areas -> tight close quarters. Better "paths" through an area with sense of progress.
• Need of surveying the area -> Seeing an alien in a third floor window - how can I get there? 
• Completely different map layout styles within a single biome so they wouldn't feel so samey.
• Having more complex maps will really benefit the game by giving players more interesting scenarios to play through.

I checked the old X1 maps I made back in the day. You can maybe see and feel the vibe in these screenshots I'm looking for:

Edited January 7, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Now that @Chris has published the official development roadmap for the early access period and one of Goldhawk's bullet points being "additional tactical maps", I think it's time to bring this topic into discussion again.

I am the author of the highly appraised Skitso's ultimate map pack for Xenonauts 1 that had thousands of downloads back in the day so one might say I know what I'm talking about.

While many of the game's current maps are fine, there's a lot to make them better. The list I've made in the first post above has it all so I'm not going to repeat myself here. Just saying... the game needs more than just a lot more tactical maps. Many of the current ones need some improvements too.

Biggest map issues are:

• Many maps feel too empty/sterile/not lived in
• Not enough verticality (!!!)
• Layout variation within a single biome is too homogenous:
  • Farm biome is too formulaic and boring with the same crossing roads and hedges over and over again
  • Jungles aren't dense enough and ancient temples in each is an odd design choice 
  • Deserts of the world are all full of construction yards

And additionally, crash sites need to feel like crash sites. So smoke, fire, broken stuff and debris around and inside the wreck

what about you guys and gals, what you feel the game is missing mapping wise?

Edited July 12, 2023 by Skitso

[Emily_F]

@Skitso Given the images of the maps you showed in the OP, I think Goldhawk should employ you as THE map designer.  You obviously know what you're doing and it would take a big dev headache off their plate!!  

[Skitso]

5 hours ago, Emily_F said:

@Skitso Given the images of the maps you showed in the OP, I think Goldhawk should employ you as THE map designer.  You obviously know what you're doing and it would take a big dev headache off their plate!!  

We actually had such a talk with Goldhawk (thank you @Chris for giving the opportunity!) this spring, but I soon realised that it requires so much time and effort that I simply couldn't manage it in my current life/work/family situation any more. :/

Edited July 12, 2023 by Skitso

[Skitso]

Now that I've played the milestone 1 through, I have a better view of the maps we have at the moment and here's what I think:

DESERT:

• Not my favorite at the moment
• Too samey maps with too many construction yards
• Needs more open wilderness maps with just sand, rocks, shrubbery and cliffs for elevation changes.
• More shack village and trailer park style maps  

ARID:

• I like these maps quite a lot visually. Nice theme
• Submaps need more variation with some higher buildings and other elevation changes
• Needs some elements to restrict movement but not visibility like chain link fences  

POLAR:

• I like the vibe of these.
• The Thing movie styled science bases are nice, but again, not every maps needs to be like that.
• Many polar maps could maybe be more sparse with longer LOS to differentiate them more
• More wilderness maps with no or very few buildings. More trees, lakes and cliffs.

DOCKS:

• I like these maps too. One of the better looking biomes.
• Too many containers. Needs some other elements to break LOS.
• More water and for example narrow bridges to split maps and make it more difficult to close up on enemies.
• Two story buildings
• Both cleaner cell missions are too samey with identical main buildings.

JUNGLE:

• Nice to look but needs something more to spice it up.
• Maybe make them more dense with even more trees and tight cliff crevices with shorter LOS
• Too many ancient ruins. Might also have some shack villages or similar
• More elevation changes with 2 or 3 story cliffs.
• Water areas looks bad. It should be more lush around water: more shrubbery, grass and rocks to make ponds more grounded.

BOREAL: 

• Nice theme and visually pleasing biome.
• Lots of large but empty feeling buildings with only outer walls. Needs more smaller rooms and props inside. Also more shacks and other smal buildings.
• Some areas suffer a lot from asset overuse. Like, I understand it's an area to store piles of logs, but does there need to be 9 of those similar piles side by side? Could a few of them be a small storage shack maybe instead?...or, nice there's a cool looking fork lift. Does there need to be 3 of them side by side? Could you switch one of them to like oil barrel and pile of boxes? Train rails? Very nice, but do we need 10 rails side by side? You get the point.

FARM:

• My least favorite biome.
• Boring, formulaic maps with long straight roads and hedges, empty fields.
• Large concrete tiled areas with concrete walls look ugly and boring.
• Desperately needs more interesting and multi story buildings, trees etc.
• Needs more variation to block FOV other than hedges and concrete walls, like trees, tall wooden fences, small buildings, shacks etc.
• Too much same props side by side here too.

WESTERN TOWN:

• Cleaner intel mission map is my favorite map in the whole game: It's excellent and feels like a real office building. Tight close quarters battles, multiple optional paths and lots of cool visual detail. I wish I got the same feeling from more maps.
• The few terror maps we have atm are also pretty good, but they need more higher buildings, tighter side alleys and more complex interiors with smaller rooms and corridors.
• Terror maps could be made more "terrory" by adding more chaos. More aliens, more civilians, more local forces. Aliens wrecking places, burning houses and cars etc. Also ambiance sounds like people screaming, explosions, warning sirens etc.
• More indentifiable places like gas station, restaurant and grocery store. With some imagination, you can probably do a lot with existing assets already. Some apartments, bars and  and maybe an arcade or barber shop.
• Many buildings feel too much like a general approximation or a movie set. Restaurants don't have toilets, Gas station doesn't have a storage room or any back areas for staff etc. Everything feels too empty and sterile.

GENERAL:

• Most maps feel too flat. More verticality is my number 1 thing that needs improvement.
• Having more movement blocking areas like water or chain link fences, higher ground areas and two or three story buildings are super important, as it forces the player to think more how to deal with the threat more than just run next to a target with a high TU unit and shotgunning them away. This route planning gameplay is something X2 is currently missing a bit. If I see an alien sniper in a third floor window, I need to infiltrate the building, find stairs and fight my way to the upper floors to kill the sniper or try to shoot it from afar. This kind of map design also gives more reason for jetpack which is currently pretty useless on flat maps we have.
• Maps lack light sources like street lamps to illuminate night missions.
• Many maps suffer from asset overuse where same prop is used multiple times inside a small area.
• Many maps could use a bit of ambiance effects. (rain in jungle, dust clouds in desert, snowing in polar, seagulls in docks)
• As the UFO's grow larger, maps could be made smaller.  Largest ufo's could be almost the whole map and you wouldn't need to make so many maps for them.
• Many buildings are too simple with just outer walls. More complex buildings with tight spaces, corridors with lots of doors and small rooms with good ambush locations.
• I'll put this in general too: many buildings feel too much like a general approximation or a movie set. Restaurants don't have toilets, Gas station doesn't have a storage room or any back areas for staff etc. Everything feels too empty and sterile. Many things look and feel they are just randomly thrown there for player to have something to crouch behind.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Skitso

[Raffik]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:45 AM, Skitso said:

Now that @Chris has published the official development roadmap for the early access period and one of Goldhawk's bullet points being "additional tactical maps", I think it's time to bring this topic into discussion again.

I am the author of the highly appraised Skitso's ultimate map pack for Xenonauts 1 that had thousands of downloads back in the day so one might say I know what I'm talking about.

While many of the game's current maps are fine, there's a lot to make them better. The list I've made in the first post above has it all so I'm not going to repeat myself here. Just saying... the game needs more than just a lot more tactical maps. Many of the current ones need some improvements too.

Biggest map issues are:

• Many maps feel too empty/sterile/not lived in
• Not enough verticality (!!!)
• Layout variation within a single biome is too homogenous:
  • Farm biome is too formulaic and boring with the same crossing roads and hedges over and over again
  • Jungles aren't dense enough and ancient temples in each is an odd design choice 
  • Deserts of the world are all full of construction yards

And additionally, crash sites need to feel like crash sites. So smoke, fire, broken stuff and debris around and inside the wreck

what about you guys and gals, what you feel the game is missing mapping wise?

I am happy with the looks so far, assuming it will be worked on further. Love the maps shown above.

What I would like would be maps with underground levels, like some houses with underground garage / basement or military base f.e.

I understand it would require some extra programming to add a level, but would be so cool imho.

[Shadeth]

I have not played through enough multi-layer maps to know, but what happens with this game engine if you, say blow out all the walls of a subfloor?  Does the rest of the building remain standing floating in mid-air or does it all collapse, damaging anyone who was in it?  Just wondering since that might make for an interesting strategy if some stubborn or hard to kill aliens were at the top of a tall building and you could effectively demolish it to kill them.