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V25 Gameplay / Balance Feedback thread:


Chris

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4 hours ago, Kamehamehayes said:

I'm going to shift a little bit away from the price of good decreasing as you sell them to the topic of alien abilities again. 

I just got into the playtest and played a few hours all the way until I fought Wraiths in a Observer ufo (although I have not completed the clear base). I've currently fought cleaners, psyons, sectons, servitors, and wraiths. I played on Veteran difficulty and have not completed the cleaner base yet and have access to accelerated weapons and warden armor. 

Sectons: I really like their alien ability. Each secton individually is pretty weak, but as a group they are super deadly. It feels fair as you can either kill a secton or suppress them. Although, I did see a really weird ai quirk where sectons sometimes prefer to shoot someone from all the way across the map than shot someone 10 tiles away from them. I don't have a good save for that one unfortunately, and I deleted a lot of saves as load times were increasing rapidly and stuttering and freezing became more often because of the uncapped amount of autosaves. I'm kicking myself now for doing that. 

Psyons: I think their ability is a little excessive. Shooting and missing takes that soldier's turn away completely, which is especially annoying when they miss an overwatch shot and cannot do anything the next turn. I think removing half of the soldier's remain tus with mesmerize is more than enough to get the player to think more strategically and make them go out of their way to guarantee hits. Getting rid of 100% of a soldier's tus is unnecessary and overkill imo. 

Servitors: From what I can tell, their ability is not bugged and they heal the intended 50% hp. I don't have much to say about them other than that. 

Wraiths: These guys are extremely strong imo. Their cloaking field makes them insanely hard to hit and they regenerate their cloak after each turn. They also come with both plasma rifles and plasma grenades, so they are extremely deadly as well. They are also really tanky for some reason, they have over 100 hp which I find a little ridiculous since they are already so hard to hit and that is a lot more hp than the many psyons faced previously. I got destroyed by these guys in my encounter, only surviving with 4/9 of my squad left. I think they need to be toned down a little imo. Perhaps their hp need to go down or their shield has a cooldown before regenerating again? I do have a save from this mission though, if that is any help to this discussion. 

Other smaller notes: 

-The MARS cannon is really strong. It hits one-shot thresholds on a lot of earlygame enemies and my MARS is consistently more accurate than my snipers are with a cannon + rangefinder (after moving). I didn't test how strong it is compared to the rocket launcher, but it is the mvp of every mission I've done by far. 

-The cost of missiles and torpedoes for air combat is too demanding imo. I'm not encouraged to experiment with my air combat weapons because the initial cost of $200,000 for each of them produced is too much to justify when I have to do things like build soldier equipment, build a second base, hire more engineers/scientists, build more planes for said second base, etc. If it were $200,000 for an unlimited supply than I think it would be worth it, but $200,000 each is a big ask imo, no matter how strong torpedoes supposedly are. 

-For the first couple months, I only faced psyons/sectons with the cleaner intelligence hub mission in-between. I was hoping to have a bit more variety of alien species in the first couple months of the game. 

-I don't really have any particularly big issues with the new economic system, but this may encourage players to hoard, which is a massive pitfall if they continue to hoard their items even when they need to cash at that point. Maybe there can be random events were the price of certain items increases for some time, encouraging the player to sell some of their valuable artifacts instead of hoarding. 

Thanks. This is useful feedback. A few thoughts of my own:

  • It seems odd that the number of saves would be causing stuttering etc. Did the problem go away when you mass-deleted them? I can imagine it causing a delay when you load up the Load Game panel if you have lots of saves, but I don't think it should cause general performance issues (although the actual saving process does cause the game to freeze when the save is occurring).
  • My concern around the Psyon ability was more that Mesmerise could Mind Control units relatively early in the game; I think losing TU after a failed shot isn't too strong. Although perhaps it could be based on a Bravery check or something. The fact that overwatch fire failing costs you your TU for the next turn sounds like a bug though. Your soldiers refresh their TU after the alien turn is finished so if you're sure they're losing their TU due to a Mesmerise during the alien turn, that's something I need to look into.
  • Wraiths - yeah, post up the save. I'll give it a play and see if I feel like they're too strong. It's certainly possible that I've made them too tanky and we should reduce their HP.
  • MARS - I've not really played with the cannon myself, so I'll have to give that a test. The MARS is also extremely strong with the rocket pod / autorifle combo, I'd have thought more so than the cannon / rangefinder because of the versatility. But I might have to tone the MARS down a bit. It's meant to be strong, because it requires an investment of money and research and engineering time to build, but I think it might be a bit too much of a powerhouse right now.
  • Hmmm. I'll have a think about the missiles / torpedoes cost. Maybe the best way is to make the starting variants of missiles / torpedoes free so people can experiment, but then charge for the engineering projects to build upgraded versions. Then it mirrors the way soldier weapons work,
  • The first three missions are Cleaners, Sectons and then Psyons. I sorta want to be introducing new races and mechanics relatively slowly, particularly as I want to keep the post-mission research unlock spam down (you previously would often get 3-4 new popups the first time you did a Destroyer and encountered a Mentarch, as well as the Destroyer itself and any new types of aliens in the crew). But maybe the Psyons are too similar to the Secton; I guess I could mix in the Mantids instead and save the Psyons for a little later.
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56 minutes ago, happystrawberry1 said:

Thank you so much for the key Chris! Here are my first impression after 30 days in game time on my most successful campaign. Failed 4 previous campaigns. All Veteran Difficulty.

 

The best changes that were made after coming from a playthrough of XCOM UFO Defense , OpenXcom, and Xenonauts 1.

  • Sound Track is absolutely amazing. Aleksi Aubry-Carlson did a wonderful job.
  • Sound effects by David Kizale is great!
  • The camera angles! I love it.
  • The 2D and 3D artists knocked it out of the park. Almost everything looks great!
    • Bring back the old engineer from Xenonauts 1, I loved that guy haha.
  • The simplified inventory change took a bit to get used to but I personally loved it. My grandpa laugh at how huge the inventory space was for a "Belt".
  • The little chonk tank is the cutest thing in the world.
  • The moving/firing preview!
  • Training building!
  • Soldier metals!
  • Core gameplay is familiar to older fans.

The good stuff.

  • Aliens hit hard and I love it. Back into the meat grinder we go! Night missions are a nightmare and its the best. I'm also happy you kept the infinite flares.
  • Assigning a pilot's face to your planes was a great change! I loved the XCOM UFO Defense interceptor cutscene, so having a face to your pilots when they pull off a successful attack is great. The exact opposite happens to when you fail an attack and lose your expensive fighters.
  • Whoever decided to add in the adjacency bonus in base building was a good call. I do miss the modded option of having your first base built out before being starting out, but it was doable.
  • The Cleaners fights are some of my favorites to slug it out in. The map where most of the fighting takes place in an office building is awesome! I do hope to see some more maps where it goes vertical. 
  • Losing your fighters and chonks leads to automatically rebuilding them. I love the option to spend cash to instantly replace them. It strikes a good balance in my opinion.
  • I like the modules! I hope it gets expanded upon. Such as a bipod for snipers or LMGs. Speed loaders for reduced TU costs. Headlights for the night missions. Deployable cover.
  • The demo charges return from XCOM UFO and I love it! I wished we could have the option to prime it.
  • I love the encyclopedia 
  • No godawful voice acting like Phoenix Point.
  • Mantids!

Neutral

  • No armory system like XCOM UFO. What you bring on your troopers is what you get.
    • This leads to me making ammo luggers and grenade luggers. They only carry the ammo and grenades.
  • New approaches to air combat! I like that you can organize how you can approach your attack.
    • I went back to auto resolving, but my grandpa loves doing the manual fight. We both like that after auto-resolving, you can choose to do it manually! Great design decision.
  • No priming and throwing grenades or ammunition packs to your fellow troopers.
    • You can throw a demolition charge at an alien that really deserves it, so it balances it out.
  • So far, no mixed alien types aside from Secton and what I think are Sebellians or Bigger Sectons. I haven't managed to kill one yet to find out what they are.
  • Reaction fires everywhere!
    • No complaints, it feels fair since I bring LMGs to suppress stuff.
  • Smoke grenades work both ways.

The bad.

  • I had a hard time understanding what the yellow and green bar on cover stands for.
    • I couldn't explain what it does when my grandpa gave the game a shot. In Xenonauts 1 I beat the game with close range and never bothered to use it. I hope to see a tutorial when players new to this type of game comes in. The GOG Demo would be a fantastic tutorial, just add in the snipets of what things do.
  • Please explain the yellow numbers in the tutorial and that being in the smoke causes stun damage. My first mission lead to a squad wipe since I had no idea or any indication I was getting stunned.
  • Where did free aiming go? I absolutely missed it and it would have save 2 of my campaigns best soldiers before things turned sour.
    • It lead to me forgoing the grenade launcher completely and just having a high strength trooper with an inventory full of grenades. I miss having the blind fire option to at least suppress an enemy. The choice to remove free aiming leads to a higher casualty rate that I am not a fan of.
  • The knife weighing 15? 
  • I really miss assigning a specific amount of researchers to work on multiple assignments, even if the tradeoff is slower. 
  • Soldiers that get snipe from the furthest range while the camera does not move , do not get any damage. I had a Private survive 3 shots, there was a blood pool on him, but he received no damage. I saw the shots hit him from the edge of the screen.
  • I have no incentive to save civilians or local forces in most mission types. I would have love to see them evacuate to the chopper. The UI is there in Alien Abduction. Then you can combine the mission tool "Recover 10 data pads from the cleaners" mission type when they do get to the evac point. The only thing I can really do is stun them to stop them from running to their deaths.
    • This leads to me just holding a point and have the aliens come to me. Not that I mind, but this does get stale over time. I would like to see more mission types like the Alien Abduction but without the timer. XCOM 2 introduces the Raid type mission that I fell in love with since it changes up the gameplay.
  • When on the Geoscape and on 4x Speed, I get a notification that a UFO has landed. I know in previous playthroughs that I do not get to organize the layout of soldiers on the Skyhawk before launching.
    • I rejected so I can organize, but after rejecting the Geoscape kept moving by 4x speed, losing me 2 days on the mission timer and forcing me on a night mission with 1 day left on the timer. I would like the speed to go back to 1x speed if possible when I reject.

Minor stuff I would like to see

  • Is it possible to add an idle pilot figure in the chopper during ground combat? Since we got a face to our pilots, would love to see them on standby when I abort a mission or go on a successful evac.
  • Crash details around down UFOs. 
  • I have yet to encounter a nightmare enemy like the reaper or chryssalid
    • I want more of these things or another melee type enemy.
  • Give the enemy grenades or a rocket launcher?
    • One of my favorite moments in UFO Defense was a Muton commander destroying half my squad with a blaster launcher.
  • Enemy snipers?
    • I feel like the ground combat is strictly limited to the ground floor most of the time. I love to see enemies using the ceilings too!
  • Vertical maps? The rotating camera would really show it's shine here, plus I love close quarters combat.
  • More icons or the ability to add in our own icons for custom loadouts.
  • Ambush mechanic or ambush tile sets on maps?
    • The idea came from when aliens in the UFO won't go out or start combat until you open the door. I feel like this would discourage the camping strategy of being near your chopper if you combine this with an offensive mission type. I think it would really make the bigger UFOs all the more scary. 
    • This leads to you considering your inventory. Bring a trooper with C4 to create a different path!

Overall, I love it. The only thing that really gripes me is the lack of free aiming.

Hi, welcome to the Beta-Tests.

I can aggree with you fully in the Positive Points.

 

What the Neutral Points belongs:

1. There you do an big Failure to make only Ammo- or Grenade-Specialists. That brings you in the big Problematics you mention in the Bad Points. You can complete avoid that if you Equip your Specialists correctly and give them differnt Roles (Shield, Shotgunner, Sniper, Heavy, Grenadier and Riflemens with Medikts [Shotgunners / Riflemens], Stun Weapons [Stun Rods in the Backpack of the Shields / Stun Guns for the Riflemens], Knifes [Heavy / Grenadiers] and additional Upgrade-Equipment for more Protection / Shooting).

I f. e. equip my Soldiers that minimum 4 Pistols (Sniper / Shield), 2 Rifles (Riflemens), 2 Shotgunns (Shotgunner) and 2 LMGs (Heavy) with the Ballistic Main-Weapons. Some of them have Medkits, others additional Save-Equipment and so on like above described. If you let the Basic Adjustment you will win every fight, incl. the very important Timed Missions (Abduction, etc.).

2. Where I aggree is that you can´t throw some of your Equipment to your Comrades, which need it evtl. But that is normaly easy doable like the UFO ET-Series and Phoenix Point from today show already. The same was doable in good old X-COM on the old DOS-Base-Operating System too. But that is an secondary Thing which can be done in between.

 

What the Bad Points belongs:

1. No Game have free aiming. X-Com and UFO ET-Series as well as Xeonauts 1 do it a little differnt like the Xenonauts 2 with the % of Time-Units. New XCOM and Phoenix Point is going an complete differnt way in that!

2. The Tutorial will come as first playable Mission where everything for the Battlefield get announced and explained. That you can read, if you turn on the Tutorial, which is with some Story-Information already implemented (only the Tutorial-Mission is not implemented atm, but get in before Early Access start).

3. The Abduction Civilian-Safe-Mission is easy to handle. And Civilians in Panic don´t do what you tell to them. They will say: "Yes, Yes" and do exactly the different Thing. That the Game is an Homage in most Parts to the Good old X-COM shows that with the Civilians as best example. But evtl. you can give an direction where they have to move (if the Ways to the Transport are clear that way or to an meeting Point in the save and from you already controlled Map Part).

4. The Timed Missions come in to give the Game more picancy. They are not often, but an big must have, before you get tired on the Monitor and oversleep the Main-Parts of the Game. 

5. Use maximum the Speed of 2 or 3. Then you can react. With speed 4 you cant.

Where I aggree is that the Knife is to heavy, therefore only the Grenadiers and LMGs get it as secondary Weapon.

You mentioned the Research. There we had some Discussions already about it. This System (similar get used in new XCOM / Phoenix Point) and the older 1990-System (which get used in UFO ET-Series in an refited Version) have both Advantages and Disadvantages. Evtl. there will come some more as Upgrade with the Ideas in Discussion (Outposts, Countrys etc.) and Beta-tested Features.

 

What the Whish-Stuff belongs:

1. The Crash Site-Damage I miss too. Should be doable, but that belongs on the Devs. In the UFO-ET-Series it get implemented.

2. The Pilot-Picture from the Transport-Pilot. Should be doable too. That´s an Feature, which only have Xenonauts 2 for the Fighter-Pilots and new XCOM for the Transport-Plane.

3. You will see the Reapers soon enough. If they have an Worth for the Player (Upgrading Ammo, Security-Things or similar). I think they will show up in Alien-Bases (very good defenders from the unseen / uncontroled Positions and esp. Alien-Planets. The Reapers are very hard to control, that the Reason why the Aliens don´t use them to often.

4. The Aliens have Grenades and use them. Esp. if they have an tactical / strategical Advantage to hurt or destroy many of your Squad-Members.

5. Some of the Aliens are very good Snipers. Esp. the Cesans / Psyons with the linked PSI-Features or the Robots with the advanced Targeting System. There 2 Cesans shoot down 2 of my Specialists with the Warden Combat-Armour to get dying.

6. To much vertical Maps will destroy the Game. We are not playing Homeworld or Star Wolves, where such Maps are a must have. But for new XCOM, Phoenix Point, UFO ET-Series as well as Xenonauts 2 the 3D Maps we have are more then excellent.

7. You can individulise the Specialists like already explained. There I give them some additional Equipment like Medkits, C4, Stun Weapons or similar, like it´s in Real. An Soldier only as that or that is in such Games your Death Sentence.

8. That we had already, but it was to much. So the individulise System I already explained make your Soldiers Multi-Role-Effective. 

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36 minutes ago, Chris said:

Thanks. This is useful feedback. A few thoughts of my own:

  • It seems odd that the number of saves would be causing stuttering etc. Did the problem go away when you mass-deleted them? I can imagine it causing a delay when you load up the Load Game panel if you have lots of saves, but I don't think it should cause general performance issues (although the actual saving process does cause the game to freeze when the save is occurring).
  • My concern around the Psyon ability was more that Mesmerise could Mind Control units relatively early in the game; I think losing TU after a failed shot isn't too strong. Although perhaps it could be based on a Bravery check or something. The fact that overwatch fire failing costs you your TU for the next turn sounds like a bug though. Your soldiers refresh their TU after the alien turn is finished so if you're sure they're losing their TU due to a Mesmerise during the alien turn, that's something I need to look into.
  • Wraiths - yeah, post up the save. I'll give it a play and see if I feel like they're too strong. It's certainly possible that I've made them too tanky and we should reduce their HP.
  • MARS - I've not really played with the cannon myself, so I'll have to give that a test. The MARS is also extremely strong with the rocket pod / autorifle combo, I'd have thought more so than the cannon / rangefinder because of the versatility. But I might have to tone the MARS down a bit. It's meant to be strong, because it requires an investment of money and research and engineering time to build, but I think it might be a bit too much of a powerhouse right now.
  • Hmmm. I'll have a think about the missiles / torpedoes cost. Maybe the best way is to make the starting variants of missiles / torpedoes free so people can experiment, but then charge for the engineering projects to build upgraded versions. Then it mirrors the way soldier weapons work,
  • The first three missions are Cleaners, Sectons and then Psyons. I sorta want to be introducing new races and mechanics relatively slowly, particularly as I want to keep the post-mission research unlock spam down (you previously would often get 3-4 new popups the first time you did a Destroyer and encountered a Mentarch, as well as the Destroyer itself and any new types of aliens in the crew). But maybe the Psyons are too similar to the Secton; I guess I could mix in the Mantids instead and save the Psyons for a little later.

I haven´t played the V.25.x-Versions yet, because I wanna make fully Beta-Tests like done in V.24.7 with 2 or 3 Playthroughs. Therefore I wait until the first fast Playthrough-Runs get done and Bugfixes get out to make the Version more stabe.

Testet out the Main-Version from V.25 until Day 60 or so. It runs good with the first Enemys (Cleaners, Sectons, Psyons, Sebillians, Mentarch, Mantids) in the Scout- / Destroyer-Crashsites, Abduction-Mission, Cleaner-Bureau-Mission, etc.

The new Aliens and better Equiped Aliens should come slower there I agree. And an Mix between Mantids, Sections and unarmored Sebillians would be cool, that the Psyions and better equiped Enemys will come later if you think it couldn´t come harder.  

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1 hour ago, happystrawberry1 said:

Thank you so much for the key Chris! Here are my first impression after 30 days in game time on my most successful campaign. Failed 4 previous campaigns. All Veteran Difficulty.

 

The best changes that were made after coming from a playthrough of XCOM UFO Defense , OpenXcom, and Xenonauts 1.

  • Sound Track is absolutely amazing. Aleksi Aubry-Carlson did a wonderful job.
  • Sound effects by David Kizale is great!
  • The camera angles! I love it.
  • The 2D and 3D artists knocked it out of the park. Almost everything looks great!
    • Bring back the old engineer from Xenonauts 1, I loved that guy haha.
  • The simplified inventory change took a bit to get used to but I personally loved it. My grandpa laugh at how huge the inventory space was for a "Belt".
  • The little chonk tank is the cutest thing in the world.
  • The moving/firing preview!
  • Training building!
  • Soldier metals!
  • Core gameplay is familiar to older fans.

The good stuff.

  • Aliens hit hard and I love it. Back into the meat grinder we go! Night missions are a nightmare and its the best. I'm also happy you kept the infinite flares.
  • Assigning a pilot's face to your planes was a great change! I loved the XCOM UFO Defense interceptor cutscene, so having a face to your pilots when they pull off a successful attack is great. The exact opposite happens to when you fail an attack and lose your expensive fighters.
  • Whoever decided to add in the adjacency bonus in base building was a good call. I do miss the modded option of having your first base built out before being starting out, but it was doable.
  • The Cleaners fights are some of my favorites to slug it out in. The map where most of the fighting takes place in an office building is awesome! I do hope to see some more maps where it goes vertical. 
  • Losing your fighters and chonks leads to automatically rebuilding them. I love the option to spend cash to instantly replace them. It strikes a good balance in my opinion.
  • I like the modules! I hope it gets expanded upon. Such as a bipod for snipers or LMGs. Speed loaders for reduced TU costs. Headlights for the night missions. Deployable cover.
  • The demo charges return from XCOM UFO and I love it! I wished we could have the option to prime it.
  • I love the encyclopedia 
  • No godawful voice acting like Phoenix Point.
  • Mantids!

Neutral

  • No armory system like XCOM UFO. What you bring on your troopers is what you get.
    • This leads to me making ammo luggers and grenade luggers. They only carry the ammo and grenades.
  • New approaches to air combat! I like that you can organize how you can approach your attack.
    • I went back to auto resolving, but my grandpa loves doing the manual fight. We both like that after auto-resolving, you can choose to do it manually! Great design decision.
  • No priming and throwing grenades or ammunition packs to your fellow troopers.
    • You can throw a demolition charge at an alien that really deserves it, so it balances it out.
  • So far, no mixed alien types aside from Secton and what I think are Sebellians or Bigger Sectons. I haven't managed to kill one yet to find out what they are.
  • Reaction fires everywhere!
    • No complaints, it feels fair since I bring LMGs to suppress stuff.
  • Smoke grenades work both ways.

The bad.

  • I had a hard time understanding what the yellow and green bar on cover stands for.
    • I couldn't explain what it does when my grandpa gave the game a shot. In Xenonauts 1 I beat the game with close range and never bothered to use it. I hope to see a tutorial when players new to this type of game comes in. The GOG Demo would be a fantastic tutorial, just add in the snipets of what things do.
  • Please explain the yellow numbers in the tutorial and that being in the smoke causes stun damage. My first mission lead to a squad wipe since I had no idea or any indication I was getting stunned.
  • Where did free aiming go? I absolutely missed it and it would have save 2 of my campaigns best soldiers before things turned sour.
    • It lead to me forgoing the grenade launcher completely and just having a high strength trooper with an inventory full of grenades. I miss having the blind fire option to at least suppress an enemy. The choice to remove free aiming leads to a higher casualty rate that I am not a fan of.
  • The knife weighing 15? 
  • I really miss assigning a specific amount of researchers to work on multiple assignments, even if the tradeoff is slower. 
  • Soldiers that get snipe from the furthest range while the camera does not move , do not get any damage. I had a Private survive 3 shots, there was a blood pool on him, but he received no damage. I saw the shots hit him from the edge of the screen.
  • I have no incentive to save civilians or local forces in most mission types. I would have love to see them evacuate to the chopper. The UI is there in Alien Abduction. Then you can combine the mission tool "Recover 10 data pads from the cleaners" mission type when they do get to the evac point. The only thing I can really do is stun them to stop them from running to their deaths.
    • This leads to me just holding a point and have the aliens come to me. Not that I mind, but this does get stale over time. I would like to see more mission types like the Alien Abduction but without the timer. XCOM 2 introduces the Raid type mission that I fell in love with since it changes up the gameplay.
  • When on the Geoscape and on 4x Speed, I get a notification that a UFO has landed. I know in previous playthroughs that I do not get to organize the layout of soldiers on the Skyhawk before launching.
    • I rejected so I can organize, but after rejecting the Geoscape kept moving by 4x speed, losing me 2 days on the mission timer and forcing me on a night mission with 1 day left on the timer. I would like the speed to go back to 1x speed if possible when I reject.

Minor stuff I would like to see

  • Is it possible to add an idle pilot figure in the chopper during ground combat? Since we got a face to our pilots, would love to see them on standby when I abort a mission or go on a successful evac.
  • Crash details around down UFOs. 
  • I have yet to encounter a nightmare enemy like the reaper or chryssalid
    • I want more of these things or another melee type enemy.
  • Give the enemy grenades or a rocket launcher?
    • One of my favorite moments in UFO Defense was a Muton commander destroying half my squad with a blaster launcher.
  • Enemy snipers?
    • I feel like the ground combat is strictly limited to the ground floor most of the time. I love to see enemies using the ceilings too!
  • Vertical maps? The rotating camera would really show it's shine here, plus I love close quarters combat.
  • More icons or the ability to add in our own icons for custom loadouts.
  • Ambush mechanic or ambush tile sets on maps?
    • The idea came from when aliens in the UFO won't go out or start combat until you open the door. I feel like this would discourage the camping strategy of being near your chopper if you combine this with an offensive mission type. I think it would really make the bigger UFOs all the more scary. 
    • This leads to you considering your inventory. Bring a trooper with C4 to create a different path!

Overall, I love it. The only thing that really gripes me is the lack of free aiming.

Thanks. This is also very useful stuff. Again, a few comments of my own:

  • Your grandad sounds cool.
  • Free aim is in the game, don't worry. You just need to hold down Ctrl. I think this backs up the comment you made about us needing the tutorial, and we're hopefully going to have that done for the next major build.
  • Oh yeah, I forgot to update the name of the "Belt". I'll get that fixed.
  • Yeah, we do plan to add a tutorial shortly. I think it'll help a lot given how complex the game can be.
  • What do you mean by what "the yellow and green bar on cover stands for"? Do you mean the cover indicators that appear on the mouse as you move it around, or the colours of the tiles in the shot fire path, or something else?
  • Yeah, I'll add in a popup about stun damage being yellow then.
  • For the "Soldiers that get snipe from the furthest range while the camera does not move , do not get any damage" issue, can you provide a save and a screenshot (and maybe some game logs) next time you see it? Unfortunately it's hard to understand what might be happening just from a text description. Were you fighting the small grey Sectons when it happened? I guess they can probably shoot a really long way when their accuracy bonus is active.
  • Could you explain a little more how an Abduction mission without the timer would improve the gameplay? To me the main reason why Abduction missions are interesting is because they have a timer that forces the player to move forward and clear the map, rather than waiting for the aliens to come to you. Wouldn't they be the same as the other mission types if you removed that?
  • Yes, I was also thinking that some of the popups should slow time when you cancel them. I'll experiment with that for the next major hotfix. However it's worth knowing that you can rearrange soldiers in the dropship while it is in flight, you just can't change their loadouts.
  • It does seem like people are interested in more verticality; it's something I've been trying to avoid so far because shooting between different camera levels is a bit shonky visually and in terms of line of sight / line of fire. But if people do want it then it's something we can probably explore in Early Access.
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Hi all (Devs / test players).

 Thank for the beta test key / opportunity.

 I had a long hard work day yesterday so I only had time to plat the initial 45 days of the game. Most of my concerns was already stated. However, some few thinks I would like to say:

 - When I stared the game, I just produce more “armor suits” (can remember the name, but the basic one already available at the start) for the soldiers that do not have it (not all came equipped with it from the start). However, after the ground missions some of those armor suits kept being missed. When I went to the soldier loadout page, some of the soldier did not have it anymore. I believe that the reason is because the soldier was shoot in the previous mission and the armor suit became ruined (and then gone from the inventory). Therefore, I should be some tip that explain that, so the players do not get lost by “why the soldier loose the armor suit? / why I should produce more if I already produce enough for all soldier before?”.

- I do not know if I was unluck but for every ground mission I was losing 3to5 soldiers. This led to a situation that I was hiring people after every mission to get back to a 9 soldiers team. I am just not sure if this is the way it should be.

- In a general manner, I think the lack of tips very concern. Since most if us are used to Xeno1 or other similar games, we already have some felling about how things should work. But, as said, the new player will have a hard time to understand without a good tutorial and an easily tip system.

 Be Brave! o7

Castelo

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Hi CasteloBranco,

welcome to the Beta-Testers.

The Defender-Armour-Suits are not good for all Soldiers, because they are to heavy, what the Researcher-Chief will later explain. Only the Rifelmens, Shotgunners and Heavy (LMGs) will get it from beginning. The others (Shield, Grenadiers and Snipers) get the Armour-Plates instead.

I made 2 complete runs with that in V.24.7 without Problems and an 60 Day Run with V.25.0 without Problems. There the Armour didn´t get lost (Wounded, Heavy Wounded, Dead Soldiers). If the others would have the same Problem then it would already show up in the Bug-Reports for Xenonauts 2.

Seems that you have that Problem. Should be sovled easyly with an Steam Repair-Search and new beginning of a Campaign.

 

What your Soldier-Dying Problem belongs is the Fact, that the Basic-Armours / advanced Basic Armours / Shields / Protection Plates allone won´t give enough Protection. You have to use every Cover you get (Walls, Trees, big Naturals etc.) the whole Game. The best Basic-Cevlar-Suit and Basic- / Upgraded-Basic-Armours don´t protect you from an Headshot, Explosion etc.

Therefore you get the MARS-Assistance-Vehicle too after Research with good Protection, and it can be rebuild after getting destroyed, what an Human can´t in normal Conditions (with and without Protection). Only the UFO ET-Series have such an Rebuild for Soldiers if they have of Chance for Surving about the special Armour-Features to hold some Body-Parts alive for several Rounds if Possible. That Xenonauts 2 only have with the Hospital-Buidlups / Upgrades and about 10% from beginning on.

Not to forgett, that such an Rebuild of a Soldier (Healing, Learning several normal Things again etc. [see 6 Million Dollar Men / Bionic Women]) needs a lot of time. Try to avoid such long Healings with the using of every cover you get. As well as good Protection, but not directly from beginning for all Soldiers (Defender-Armour etc.). There the other lighter Protection-Parts will get Upgrades and are more useable for Grenadiers, Snipers and Shield-Specialists, esp. in the long Beginning-Phase. 

 

The Tips are good and for new People very helpfull. The only thing is that they must read them. Many of us which make the Beta-Test from Day 1 on played similar Games (UFO ET-Series, XCOM-Series, old X-COM-Series, similar Fan-Projects or the not so good Predecessor Xenonauts 1) don´t need them so often. Only if there are new Features or Parts we have overseen or completely new the Tutorial get read fully.

Edited by Alienkiller
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3 hours ago, Chris said:

Thanks. This is useful feedback. A few thoughts of my own:

  • It seems odd that the number of saves would be causing stuttering etc. Did the problem go away when you mass-deleted them? I can imagine it causing a delay when you load up the Load Game panel if you have lots of saves, but I don't think it should cause general performance issues (although the actual saving process does cause the game to freeze when the save is occurring).
  • My concern around the Psyon ability was more that Mesmerise could Mind Control units relatively early in the game; I think losing TU after a failed shot isn't too strong. Although perhaps it could be based on a Bravery check or something. The fact that overwatch fire failing costs you your TU for the next turn sounds like a bug though. Your soldiers refresh their TU after the alien turn is finished so if you're sure they're losing their TU due to a Mesmerise during the alien turn, that's something I need to look into.
  • Wraiths - yeah, post up the save. I'll give it a play and see if I feel like they're too strong. It's certainly possible that I've made them too tanky and we should reduce their HP.
  • MARS - I've not really played with the cannon myself, so I'll have to give that a test. The MARS is also extremely strong with the rocket pod / autorifle combo, I'd have thought more so than the cannon / rangefinder because of the versatility. But I might have to tone the MARS down a bit. It's meant to be strong, because it requires an investment of money and research and engineering time to build, but I think it might be a bit too much of a powerhouse right now.
  • Hmmm. I'll have a think about the missiles / torpedoes cost. Maybe the best way is to make the starting variants of missiles / torpedoes free so people can experiment, but then charge for the engineering projects to build upgraded versions. Then it mirrors the way soldier weapons work,
  • The first three missions are Cleaners, Sectons and then Psyons. I sorta want to be introducing new races and mechanics relatively slowly, particularly as I want to keep the post-mission research unlock spam down (you previously would often get 3-4 new popups the first time you did a Destroyer and encountered a Mentarch, as well as the Destroyer itself and any new types of aliens in the crew). But maybe the Psyons are too similar to the Secton; I guess I could mix in the Mantids instead and save the Psyons for a little later.

-Reducing the number of saves did increase my general performance by quite a bit. Sometimes the game would hang on someone shooting or my MARS moving around, nd the problem got worse as there were more saves. So deleting them decreased the stuttering by a lot. 

-I did not encounter mind control when I triggered mesmerize during my play session out of the 3-4 missions I played against psyons. I don't know if I'm just lucky or not. 

Here's the wraith save. For some reason, the game did not autosave at the beginning of the mission, so I'll have to give you a save from the end of that turn instead. 

auto_groundcombat_turn_1_end-105.json

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Kamehamehayes, the reduced Performance which caused from Save-Games I hear for Xenonauts 2 the first time. But I know an Game where such an Problem comes up too. It´s called Battletech (the Strategy-Game von Harebraind Shemes). From what it´s comming nobody knows, but if you delete some older Saves or to much Autosaves the Performance increase again, like the Effect you announce for Xenonauts 2.

With the new Abilitys from the Aliens, which work fully since V.25 the first time, I hadn´t an Problem yet.

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3 hours ago, Chris said:

 

  • What do you mean by what "the yellow and green bar on cover stands for"? Do you mean the cover indicators that appear on the mouse as you move it around, or the colours of the tiles in the shot fire path, or something else?
  • Could you explain a little more how an Abduction mission without the timer would improve the gameplay? To me the main reason why Abduction missions are interesting is because they have a timer that forces the player to move forward and clear the map, rather than waiting for the aliens to come to you. Wouldn't they be the same as the other mission types if you removed that?
  • It does seem like people are interested in more verticality; it's something I've been trying to avoid so far because shooting between different camera levels is a bit shonky visually and in terms of line of sight / line of fire. But if people do want it then it's something we can probably explore in Early Access.

Hello! 

Thank you so much for telling me the button for free aiming, I can suppress things now and use the smoke grenade ammo from the grenade launcher.  It also gives me options on how I can approach an enemy. 

The cover indicators, I wasn't sure how they work at all in my first playthrough. I think if you guys do decide to do a tutorial, explaining what the cover indicator mean in a text snippet would be fine! The shot fire path is fine and I love the visual data that explains the percentages.

  • I like the Abduction mission timers! Sorry, I wasn't sure how to word it. After playing a few more of these, it was a nice change of pace. Fighting the aliens on their terms and where they defend the abductions was awesome! And a lot of casualties. Personally I think 6 turns feels too little, and think 7 would work. First 2 turns most of the time is just getting out of the transport and trying to find the pods. The reward where global panic reduces by 10 is perfect in exchange for potentially sacrificing some soldiers. Makes victory all the more sweeter if you complete one with no losses!
    • I think the timer mechanic could be expanded upon and increase mission variety! Example mission type would be to defuse the bomb idea that XCOM 1 had. Get rid of the bomb before the timer runs out and then you can clear the map.
  • Nothing too crazy with vertical maps, we could start off small! Like two story buildings. Have some of the objectives like the Cleaner's datapads be on the second story.
    • Or we could explore the opposite. Ground floor, then go underground. Underground hangers, cloning facility, Reaper infestation lair etc.
  • This is where I got the idea of the ambush tile or the incorporation of Aliens not moving from the UFO comes in. You can clear the first floor and ground floor without triggering another pod of aliens. I also think it would add variety to the crash sites instead of being tucked away in the corner most of the time. 
    • It can help change the mission flow and encourages capturing the UFO mechanic if you cant find the hiding enemy or ones lying in ambush. 

Sorry if these ideas seem bad, the inspirations came from playing Terror From the Deep Cruise ship missions, the bigger UFOs in other XCOM games, and the Site Recon from XCOM EU. 

 

Additional feedback

My grandpa and I love the reminder when a soldier TU hasn't been used yet. The right click to end things without it popping up? Cherry on top!

I love the numeric display showing how much health an enemy has, just having that information is valuable to me personally.

Can't wait to encounter enemies with bigger and badder weapons! A fellow user told me aliens do use grenades, can't wait to see that in action.

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2 hours ago, CasteloBranco said:

Hi all (Devs / test players).

 Thank for the beta test key / opportunity.

 I had a long hard work day yesterday so I only had time to plat the initial 45 days of the game. Most of my concerns was already stated. However, some few thinks I would like to say:

 - When I stared the game, I just produce more “armor suits” (can remember the name, but the basic one already available at the start) for the soldiers that do not have it (not all came equipped with it from the start). However, after the ground missions some of those armor suits kept being missed. When I went to the soldier loadout page, some of the soldier did not have it anymore. I believe that the reason is because the soldier was shoot in the previous mission and the armor suit became ruined (and then gone from the inventory). Therefore, I should be some tip that explain that, so the players do not get lost by “why the soldier loose the armor suit? / why I should produce more if I already produce enough for all soldier before?”.

- I do not know if I was unluck but for every ground mission I was losing 3to5 soldiers. This led to a situation that I was hiring people after every mission to get back to a 9 soldiers team. I am just not sure if this is the way it should be.

- In a general manner, I think the lack of tips very concern. Since most if us are used to Xeno1 or other similar games, we already have some felling about how things should work. But, as said, the new player will have a hard time to understand without a good tutorial and an easily tip system.

 Be Brave! o7

Castelo

Thanks for playtesting:

  • Yeah, armour is destroyed if the soldier wearing it is killed. I think this is already highlighted in the Xenopedia but I'll make a note to consider adding a popup to explain it as well.
  • If you're having 3-5 soldiers killed every mission, that's probably a bit too much. Usually I'd expect to lose 1-2 soldiers a mission (and maybe another 1-2 wounded), with the occasional mission that goes badly where you have 4-5 soldiers killed. But it's definitely not meant to be like the new XCOM games where on most missions I don't lose any soldiers, and I probably only lose 4-5 soldiers for the entire campaign.
    • You've not played that much Xenonauts or classic X-Com (1994), right? I think one of the problems is that the game is a bit difficult to understand without a tutorial, and the easier difficulty settings don't make the game that much easier. Which difficulty setting are you playing on? In a future update we'll be making the aliens a bit less accurate on the easier settings so it's not quite as dangerous when you're still learning the game.
  • Yes, the tutorial is something we're hoping to implement in January. Hopefully that make things easier for new players - but if not, hopefully the community will help us figure out what more we need to do :)
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2 hours ago, Kamehamehayes said:

-Reducing the number of saves did increase my general performance by quite a bit. Sometimes the game would hang on someone shooting or my MARS moving around, nd the problem got worse as there were more saves. So deleting them decreased the stuttering by a lot. 

-I did not encounter mind control when I triggered mesmerize during my play session out of the 3-4 missions I played against psyons. I don't know if I'm just lucky or not. 

Here's the wraith save. For some reason, the game did not autosave at the beginning of the mission, so I'll have to give you a save from the end of that turn instead. 

auto_groundcombat_turn_1_end-105.json 1.72 MB · 0 downloads

Hmmm. Interesting to hear that deleting the saves did help. You're not playing Iron Man mode, are you?

Thanks for the save, I'll give it a play and maybe I'll make some balance changes in the next patch.

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

Hmmm. Interesting to hear that deleting the saves did help. You're not playing Iron Man mode, are you?

Thanks for the save, I'll give it a play and maybe I'll make some balance changes in the next patch.

I am not playing on ironman mode currently. 

Edited by Kamehamehayes
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4 hours ago, Kamehamehayes said:

Here's the wraith save. For some reason, the game did not autosave at the beginning of the mission, so I'll have to give you a save from the end of that turn instead. 

auto_groundcombat_turn_1_end-105.json 1.72 MB · 1 download

Unfortunately I can't really look into this because loading this save has exposed a bug - the Wraith ability is broken after loading a save, and doesn't deactivate after taking damage.

I think I'll nerf their HP anyway, as you say it doesn't make sense have them be as tough as they are while also having a powerful -Accuracy ability.

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2 hours ago, Kamehamehayes said:

I do have another save for another mission with Wraiths. I'll provide that too. Maybe the bug might not appear in this one? 

Since I also have a save right before the mission, I might as well provide that one too. 

user_observer_wraith_mission_turn_1_-2.json 1.63 MB · 0 downloads auto_strategy_before_combat-25.json 493.41 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks. Looks like the problem here isn't necessarily the Wraiths themselves, it's that you're facing Wraith Elites with Plasma weapons on day 63 when the appropriate tier enemies would be Wraith Soldiers with Magnetic weapons.

Soldiers only have 70 HP and obviously magnetic weapons hit much less hard, so I just need to fix them appearing too early. I'll do a check on the other crews to ensure that Elites aren't appearing too early on them too.

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2 minutes ago, Chris said:

Thanks. Looks like the problem here isn't necessarily the Wraiths themselves, it's that you're facing Wraith Elites with Plasma weapons on day 63 when the appropriate tier enemies would be Wraith Soldiers with Magnetic weapons.

Soldiers only have 70 HP and obviously magnetic weapons hit much less hard, so I just need to fix them appearing too early. I'll do a check on the other crews to ensure that Elites aren't appearing too early on them too.

Now that you mention it, I did see psyons and sectons attack my base with plasma weaponry. I don't have a save for it, but I'll look out for it in the future. 

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6 minutes ago, Kamehamehayes said:

Now that you mention it, I did see psyons and sectons attack my base with plasma weaponry. I don't have a save for it, but I'll look out for it in the future. 

I was actually a little too hasty with that post, it seems. Wraith Elites with Plasma weapons are actually an appropriate crew for an Observer UFO, which is what you have shot down there. So there's two things I need to do.

First, I need to remove the Observer from that particular UFO wave. It's a rare spawn but I think it'll just end up blindsiding unsuspecting players with a difficulty spike when it does; normally Observers don't turn up for another two weeks.

Second, I need to mix up the crew a bit. It's all Elites with plasmas right now, whereas it should probably be half Soldiers with magnetic weapons.

Also, you're right about the MARS cannon. It's incredibly powerful right now because it's getting about three times the range bonus it should be getting (it gets +70% to hit when attacking adjacent enemies, when a rifle only gets +24%.) I'll adjust that down for the next patch.

Finally, seems like Servitors are self-healing right now, which is something we need to disabled.

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I just completed the clean base assault mission, and it was really easy. Most of their weapons were just regular ballistic weapons that did little against my soldiers in warden armor and did nothing against my soldiers with guardian armor. The sentry guns and plasma weapon cleaners were not particularly threatening, but I did generally take them out the earliest I was able to, so I did not actually see them shoot a x10 burst from their machineguns or fire plasma weapons more than once or twice. I also saw that there were no cleaners with any sort of armor whatsoever, which I found a little strange.

Opinions on the cleaner base mission? 

auto_groundcombat_turn_1_start-120.json

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Alright, I have some more things to talk about. 

-I was wrong about mesmerize affecting reaction shots and then carrying over into the player turn, the soldier gets all of their tus back like intended.

-Base defense missions are really, really easy. The aliens always spawn in the hangers (which has the most open space in the whole base), so the optimal strategy is to camp the hangars and jump the aliens on their turn with all of your soldiers. The aliens hardly stand a chance even if they are equiped with strong armor and plasma weapons. You also get sentries (which you get a lot of them from the cleaner base assault), which trivialize the mission with their incredibly cheap production costs and strong options with machineguns, cannons, and rocket launchers. Using sentries also does not risk soldier death, are much more effective than a soldier, and can be rebuilt and redistributed for almost no cost. You only lose your base if all of your soldiers are eliminated, which is an extremely rare occurrence in itself and you likely have sentries which are powerful and risk free anyways. Base defense missions have no pressure to them, no risk of losing, and have no reason to play with purpose, camping or jumping the aliens player phase are all that's required. I think that the aliens should be able to spawn in other places other than the hangars and that they should have a secondary objective of some kind (like damaging base structures that take time to repair on the geoscape, or extracting information for some purpose) to make the player play with a little bit more purpose while not outright punishing them for playing a little slower. (Save at the bottom) 

-If you don't mind me asking, why doesn't the MARS have the option to use a machinegun? I saw in earlier versions that the MARS definitely had the option to do so, and the sentries continue to have the option to do so, despite their purpose being that of a diet MARS that can only be used on base defense missions. I think it would be kind of nice to give the player the option to choose a machinegun, a cannon, or a rocket launcher depending on their playstyle, and make the MARS a little more versatile than it already is. 

-The knife in the earlygame is deceptively powerful. I started using it a little bit a couple of hours in and it is quite potent as a weapon. It almost gives me vanilla xcom 2 ranger vibes with how powerful and consistent they are against earlygame enemies. It can easily 1 or 2 shot the vast majority of earlygame enemies with ease and with 100% accuracy. I checked the stats of the knife and I think it has an attack power of 40 compared to base/accelerated pistol's attack power of 28/32. It doesn't make much sense to me for the knife to be that much more potent than a pistol and still a lot more potent than an accelerated pistol. I should also mention that since melee weapons can "overwatch" or "bladestorm" now, they are also extremely effective weapon in close quarters of ufos too. 

-The shield is also really powerful in v25. Warden armor + shield makes most attacks from ballistic or magnetic weapons tickle a soldier, and you are are almost impervious to damage if you use guardian armor + shield. Even plasma weapons take 3-4 hits to actually kill a tanky soldier with a shield, which is significant as plasma weapons can easily 1 shot soldiers in warden armor if the player isn't careful. 

-As other people have said, repair times on aircraft are way too long. A lot of times, I can wait a week or two per ufo wave and my damaged angel only recovers 20-40 hp. It's almost worth it to purposefully shoot your own plane down so that it is completely repaired by the time you reacquire it in two weeks. The overhaul idea you mentioned earlier sounds kind of cool; I think it is something worth experimenting with at least. 

I'm going to take a break and restart my campaign once the alloy plating bug on aircraft is fixed, I'm getting bodied the the increasing number of destroyers and observers that can damage my angels quite considerably per fight, especially with several of my planes lacking alloy plating. 

 

 

auto_groundcombat_turn_1_start-156.json

Edited by Kamehamehayes
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Hello! I been clicking random buttons on different places in the Geoscape. Here's my feedback as a relatively new player to Xenonauts :D

 

I would like to see a button prompt or explanation when it comes to base building in the encyclopedia or tutorial. I discovered by complete accident that right clicking powers down some specific buildings, right clicking twice will demolish it, and left clicking will repower it. It would also be nice to see that if I do demolish it, I get the information prompt that I get money back. Maybe add an explanation that you can't move building around and you need to completely tear it down, if the idea of relocating a building in exchange for money is thrown out the window.

 

I also notice capacity isn't listed in any of the explanation windows on guns or items. Weight explanation on the airplane armor thing is incomplete too. That's all the input I thought things should be noticed when I consider the POV of a new player.

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1855076362_Screenshot(436).png

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After trying to get going with 3 separate starts I just found the games combat overly difficult. Getting half or more of the squad wiped on intro missions kind of ruined any fun. I'm saying this as someone who enjoys a bit of difficulty but this just was just not fun. Getting 1 shotted from across the map.. Barely getting 3 soldiers to make it to the end of missions.. Having soldiers be that expendable really ruins the experience for me. Instead of getting invested, it makes it so I don't care about any of them if they are just going to die on the next mission.

 

I'll likely try again later, besides a couple bugs with healing I liked everything else.

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@VitaminK if you're crouching, with cover, that shouldn't be happening quite so much ... granted, you can't always get good cover with every soldier every turn, but even crouching out in the open is better than nothing.  Also, be sure to leave enough TUs available on at least some of your soldiers to provide some Overwatch on the aliens' turn - though they've gotten a bit deadlier with shooting before doing all their moving, there are still generally some good opportunities to 'get them before they get you'.   Giving your Machine Gunners and your Snipers those opportunities on Overwatch whenever you can are often the best bet - the snipers for the longshot kills before the enemy can get close enough to do real harm, the MGs, if for no other reason than their ability to suppress aliens on their own turn, allowing your close up units to swoop in and blast them to ribbons on your own turn.  Also, grenades can come in very handy, especially if you lob them over obstacles and give the alien no enemy to try shooting back at, if it survives the frag.  You could try employing smoke grenades, but I've found they seem to hamper my own ability to hit targets as much as they do the enemy's ... perhaps use them in a pinch when you have a soldier badly exposed and no one else is close enough to do much else.

 

Hope that helps a bit!

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1 hour ago, VitaminK said:

After trying to get going with 3 separate starts I just found the games combat overly difficult. Getting half or more of the squad wiped on intro missions kind of ruined any fun. I'm saying this as someone who enjoys a bit of difficulty but this just was just not fun. Getting 1 shotted from across the map.. Barely getting 3 soldiers to make it to the end of missions.. Having soldiers be that expendable really ruins the experience for me. Instead of getting invested, it makes it so I don't care about any of them if they are just going to die on the next mission.

 

I'll likely try again later, besides a couple bugs with healing I liked everything else.

Fair enough. You might find it more fun to play in a month or so, once the difficulty settings options allow me to change the number of enemies on the mission and adjust their Accuracy. At the moment the difficulty tweaks mostly affect the strategy layer and the tactical combat is still balanced for veteran players.

However, bear in mind that you are expected to lose more soldiers at the start of the game than towards the end. That's when the discrepancy between alien technology and what humans are equipped with is the greatest. Once you get better armour your soldiers will survive longer.

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