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Komandos

The strategy of the game. Concept.

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10 minutes ago, Kamehamehayes said:

16 soldiers is generally my limit in terms of tactical enjoyment; any more soldiers will just start to make the game more and more of a slog imo when it was fun and enjoyable before.

1.

16 soldiers is the minimum for me. 16 soldiers can still be divided into 4 tactical groups. But I prefer to have 5 tactical groups on the battle map.

2. 

If the enemy is weak, then it is not necessary to assign a combat mission to the entire platoon. Make a move only with those soldiers who need combat experience and an increase in parameters.

3. 

On the contrary, I find that it is much more difficult to kill an alien with 8 barrels than with 16 barrels. And 20-24 barrels located in strategically important areas of the map make the game exciting and not stressful even with a threefold numerical superiority of the enemy. The more fighters in a tactical group, the higher the firepower of that tactical group. It's like a more powerful cannon in the hands of the player-commander.

Better to have one battle in which 20-24 of your soldiers will destroy 40-48 aliens.

Than to spend two battles in a row, where 10-12 of your soldiers will destroy 20-24 aliens.

 

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1 hour ago, Kamehamehayes said:

Increasing the soldier count to 20-24 is pretty ludicrous in the context of most players’ experiences, even if there is technically enough room in the drop ship to support that many soldiers.

Most players are experienced with game settings in which the range of sight does not exceed the radius of the grenade throw. As a result, players are forced to move their soldiers in dense crowds (phalanxes), half the AP. Which is not very fun and pleasant anymore.

Increase your visibility area by only 1.5 times and you can already run further, run less (without having to look into all the dark nooks and crannies). And fire contact with the enemy is provided at almost every step.

Night battles are even more difficult (due to low visibility). And with a low firepower of the entire detachment (weak weapons, few soldiers) - for me this is the highest difficulty (which quickly tires).

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The same "battle stress" problem that Chris presents - as a player, I can reduce the stress on some of my soldiers (came under fire, etc.) - simply by increasing the size of the battle group.

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3 hours ago, Kamehamehayes said:

Generally, 10-16 soldiers is considered pretty complex for a tactical game. It can already take minutes to plan out optimal moves and it is a good middle ground to balance complexity and still not become tedious and unenjoyable.

If you approach the solution of a combat mission as a Detachment commander, then yes: 10-16 is a lot for a detachment.

If we approach the solution of a combat mission as a Platoon commander, then the classic division "into 5-7 regiments" (the detachments) have not been canceled. The presence of a reserve (for example 16 + 4) will not complicate the game in any way. Vice versa. The reserve will only make life easier for the player in a too difficult combat situation.

Edited by Komandos

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4 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

I told about Xenonauts 2, UFO-ET-Series, Phoenix Point and Fan-Projects,

Xenonauts 2.

I saw the stream

https://youtu.be/Lrkv1oIHMKQ

The battle tactics are no different from the battle tactics in Xenonauts 1.

UFO-ET

I liked the research tree, but there are too few soldiers for serious battles. Playing with a small amount is hard, long and boring.

Phoenix Point

I watched streams on YouTube. Phoenix Point - an RPG game that uses firearms instead of swords. A more developed model of social relations is lacking for a full-fledged role-playing game.

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If you make the size of the Base not 6x6, but 12x12, then outwardly nothing will change. Living quarters that used to be 1x1 will become 2x2. Hangars that used to be 2x2 will now be 4x4. However, it will be possible to make 3x3 rooms; 3x4; 2x3 and even 1x1 (small warehouses, small radars, garages, etc.).

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We will see. Everything is in Beta-Status and can switch very quickly.

Maybe we get small / medium special Bases as the Outposts we tested already, Bases like in Phoenix Point, buyable Outposts in different Sizes like in X-COM Apocalypse or an complete new Concept.

The only thing I can´t see anymore is the old Base-Buildup where you have to pay 1.000.000 Credits only for Ground and then slowly build up your Base step by step for another 5.000.000 to 6.000.000 Credits.

We all don´t know that and have to be patient with drinking Tea.

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3 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

The only thing I can´t see anymore is the old Base-Buildup where you have to pay 1.000.000 Credits only for Ground and then slowly build up your Base step by step for another 5.000.000 to 6.000.000 Credits.

We all don´t know that and have to be patient with drinking Tea.

In fact, in the event of a war with aliens, no one will demand money for renting land for the construction of defensive structures. And the soldiers will not demand huge fees to save themselves and their families from death. If you look closely at the financial side of the issue, then the earthlings have a typical mercenary army, which was created for colonial wars, coups, and not for protection from external aggression. For example: in the new version of X-COM (which was never created) the Gollop brothers were going to provide the soldiers with food rations. And all of this. The number of personnel at the Bases was limited by the food supplies at the Bases.

In fact, there is no reasonable limit on the size of the Base, other than the size of the interface window. The base, like the city, could potentially grow many kilometers. And the only limitation of its growth is economic and military expediency. It makes no sense to build thousands of airfields for thousands of aircraft in order to shoot down (for example) one UFO accidentally flown over Antarctica.

In X-COM 1-2, the economy (market) of planet Earth had no saturation limit. With an infinitely large Base, the player could build an infinitely large number of laboratories (for the development of new technologies), build an infinitely large number of workshops (factories), hire an infinitely large number of workers, produce an infinitely large number of laser cannons, sell them on a market with infinite purchasing power, and make an infinitely large amount of money.

Base Size in X-COM: 1-2 limited the player's production and trading options. (Profit from trading).

If initially the game will have a limited number of engineers and scientists (living on planet Earth); a limited number of cities in which you can produce and buy a limited number of goods, then an artificial limitation of the size of the xenonauts base in the game will not be needed.

 

In "X-COM: 3 Apocalypse" the Gollop brothers tried to create an economy similar to the one that now exists in many Strategies, but limited themselves to "stubs": the player could not hire more than 25 biologists, more than 25 nuclear scientists, more than 50 engineers , more than 100 soldiers. There was no explanation for this.

The city's economy was so shallow that it resembled a rural one. The sale of ten rifles dramatically saturates the market, and the purchase of 10 rifles creates an acute shortage in the market.

Edited by Komandos

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In X-COM: 3 Apocalypse, despite very tight limits on the number of construction sites on the base and the total number of bases themselves (6-7), all the usable rooms (which could be filled with labor) could easily fit into two or three bases.

There were many graphical, tactical and strategic innovations in the game, but artificial restrictions on the player's freedom and concern for him did not make X-COM: 3 more popular than the first two games.

There was no balance in X-COM: 3 Apocalypse, which made many innovations and restrictions meaningless.

Edited by Komandos

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I don't know if the developers read the whole forum or not, so I duplicate the following post:

https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19643-random-thought-about-the-importance-of-the-main-squad-storywise/&do=findComment&comment=183330

here:

 

The problem is that while one (single) player's battle group flies around the globe for several days to eliminate 10 "crash sites", the alien battle groups sit motionless all these days and do nothing.

If the "UFO crash site" gets the opportunity to cause damage to the region (at the crash site) every hour (every half hour), then the player will think:

What is more profitable?

1. Use one battle group that (on average) gets to the crash site in 10 hours (for example), but the region takes 1000 damage.

2. Use five battle groups that (on average) will reach the crash site in 2 hours (for example), and the region will take (in 2 hours) 200 damage.

Total:

"UFO crash site" every hour (every minute) should cause damage (damage) to the region in which it is located.

There is also a "UFO landing site": every minute it must inflict damage (damage) to the region in which it is located.

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Like said, don´t think to make the Development much longer as it is atm with so Tertiary-Things. We all wanna (Devs, Founders / Betatesters) bring an excellent Open-Beta, which is the Early-Access-Version, to the Community.

Let us bring in the already tested and Upgraded / Reworked / Refited Features in again as well as important missing Features to make the World Map / Base Management / Soldier Management and so on more interessting (like the Stress-System, Outposts, Missions and such) and all Gapfillers get closed.

In an DLC we can then think about an Rework / Refit from Xenonauts 2 with missing secondary and some interessting tertiary Features coming in.

The Concern about the Game is not here in the Forum and the Ideas here get discussed. It´s the Community on other Platforms (and to 95 % Steam), which isn´t ammused to wait much longer. That´s the Concern we have to think about. So the Main-Importance is to fill the Gaps (R & D, Info-Boxes etc.), implement the special Features / already testet Features for Missions, World Map, Management etc. and make Xenonauts Early-Access-Ready.

Edited by Alienkiller

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