Feature suggestion: Dropship storage

[Puciek]

As old as the original ufo games are, and xenonauts proudly following suit, it is usually smart to over-pack your soldiers, and then on first turn drop the excess eq into a neat stockpile at the dropship. Stuff like more ammo, replacement shields, grenades, stun weaponry, what have you - just to give you more versatility while in the field. And fair is fair, well placed explosive by the aliens means that much more gear is then destroyed.

The process is tedious to do in every fight, so why not expand the dropship with some storage that you can put gear into at base (within some sensible weight/grid limits)? Same result, so no balance changes, just without all the annoyances that go with the current solution of over-packing and dropping. If this feels like maybe OP, introducing full load weight limits into dropship would be one way to fix it, although if the locker is op, so is over packing, but that now quietly happens, anyway.

[Alienkiller]

Yeah, Puciek, thats true. Haven´t noticed that since I have stopped to play the old X-Com-Games and did more playing UFO ET-Series, Phoenix-Point and similar new Games.

[Puciek]

17 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

Yeah, Puciek, thats true. Haven´t noticed that since I have stopped to play the old X-Com-Games and did more playing UFO ET-Series, Phoenix-Point and similar new Games.

Still very common in xenonauts

[P_Owl]

They probably removed the feature from the original XCOM as to streamline and make things easier to bare. But having a dropship locker with a hard limit sounds like an awesome idea! It's easier to understand that way then in the original XCOM, and if it turns out you need more, say, snipers than assaults, you can adjust early to mid battle. 

It's more of a quality of life feature more than anything else. And I think it'll be more balanced out if it takes more TUs to get into the locker than fallen items, and maybe have the space to access the locker be 2x1 so it'll still be tedious if the player decides to be shrewd about it. 

[MasterBurte]

I think that's a great idea. But seriously i never thought of overpacking my men. I usually go slightly over the weight limit if the individual soldier uses a lot of grenades and rockets.

[Rodmar18]

Overpacking is useful on terror or base missions, when a long siege may occur, at least for half the team. A locker would be welcome in such situations. I'd have a storage capacity at least three times that of a backpack, i.e. a small weapon rack, spare ammos for everybody, an additional medipack, ...

[Alienkiller]

Like I said already, nice Idea. Such Elements I get missing in the UFO-ET-Games (1 and 2) too. There you have the same Sitiuation. Either your People are light Armed and have enough Reserves with them or they are heavy Armed and can´t carry so much.

I understand too (I have done my Soldier-Duty), that in deep enemy Base-Missions, Special Mission etc. you can´t say to your Enemys: "Hold on, we are out of Ammonition and have to supply us again, before we can continue the fight."

For that Situation it´s good to have fully equiped Soldiers and use them wisely.

[Rodmar18]

You can't tell them that, but at this stage, you'll always have a severely wounded soldier to run for and from the locker in your transport through seemingly deserted streets, or the supply crate in the insertion room through gloomy corridors...

But the real situation that would be avoided by such a feature is when you managed to keep the enemy at bay (or to corner them) with your inferior weaponry and "superior" tactics, but failed to push your advantage further, and now you start counting every ammo that is shot. On one hand, equipment management is a full-fledged part of the game, and should stay as it is... on the other hand, not having some spare supplies is a tad odd when the game's settings and premises don't preclude it (more so when defending your own base).

[Alienkiller]

Exactly that´s the Proplem Rodmar18.

In your Base / Bases / Outposts you won´t have any Problem with Supply. But that´s only 1/2 or 1/4 from the full.

Minimum 3/4 or in good Shape 1/2 of the Game you will fight outside. That means UFOs, Alien-Bases, enemy Human-Bases, Special Missions and whatever. That´s the Part where the big Problems beginning and you can´t resupply. That´s exactly that where I said in my Post above.

23 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

Like I said already, nice Idea. Such Elements I get missing in the UFO-ET-Games (1 and 2) too. There you have the same Sitiuation. Either your People are light Armed and have enough Reserves with them or they are heavy Armed and can´t carry so much.

I understand too (I have done my Soldier-Duty), that in deep enemy Base-Missions, Special Mission etc. you can´t say to your Enemys: "Hold on, we are out of Ammonition and have to supply us again, before we can continue the fight."

For that Situation it´s good to have fully equiped Soldiers and use them wisely.

You see the Problematic of the Idea. You could do it like in old X-Com with the additional Equipment. But what then? If you are deep in an Alien-Base / enemy Human Base / Special Mission or such you haven´t the Chance to refill / rearm or similar. There the old X-Com had cheated before going in the next Level / Mappart. That the Devs wanna avoid.

An similar problem like Xenonauts 2 have is in the UFO-ET-Series (UFO 1 ET which get an fully Refit and UFO 2 ET which get DLCs). There you have only the Opportunity to fit everything the Soldiers can carry and fight in 3 Options (f. e. heavy = Mortar, medium = Rocketer or light = Rifle / Grenadier etc.). The Advantage there is, that you can use after R & D the Alien-Weapons, Ammo-Magazins etc. if your Soldiers have such Weapons and the Aliens haven´t upgraded their Arsenal like in good old X-Com or new XCOM.

The only Solutions in Xenonauts 2 for that Problem I see are following:

1. Standard-Ground-Missions (f. e. Crashsite): The Dropship-Pilots make an Resupply-Depot there with an HMG and Long-Range-Weapon as Security

2. Special-Ground-Missions (f. e. Enemy Bases): The Dropship-Pilots are the burro and make an Resupply-Depot on the Mission-Entrace with the same Depot. If there are more Levels with Map-Changes then they have to do it several times.

That have the Advantage for Maximum-Resupply the Dropship-Locker can carry, but have several Disadvantages too (like that the Enemys can destory your Resupply-Depot and esp. your Pilots and use the Weapons against you, which means you loose automatically the Mission and all your Soldiers).

That´s why all Devs from such Games (dosen´t matter Xenonauts 2, the UFO-ET-Series, Phoenix Point and in X-Com: Apocalypse) didn´t bring that in anymore. If there is an other Solution, which didn´t get found in the last 25 to 27 Years since X-Com: Apoc the Devs of such Games would have integrate it.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Alienkiller

[Komandos]

On 9/2/2021 at 4:39 PM, Alienkiller said:

That´s why all Devs from such Games (dosen´t matter Xenonauts 2, the UFO-ET-Series, Phoenix Point and in X-Com: Apocalypse) didn´t bring that in anymore. If there is an other Solution, which didn´t get found in the last 25 to 27 Years since X-Com: Apoc the Devs of such Games would have integrate it.

1. In mods for "OpenXcom" combat platforms (tanks) are used as "donkeys" to transport goods. (Two Stage Missions).

Also in the mods there are robotic units with a large carrying capacity and a roomy backpack.

2. In Jagged alliance 2 mod 1.13, soldiers have "combat backpacks" and "hiking" backpacks (filled with all kinds of supplies). Before the battle, the "traveling" backpack with all the equipment is dropped to the ground. (by pressing just one button). The soldier fights without an AP penalty for being overweight. After the battle (when all the enemies on the map are destroyed), by pressing just one button, the "travel backpack" reappears on the soldier's back.

Backpack removed.

 

Backpack dressed.

 

3. In some games (Men of War), each platoon of soldiers has a portable crate full of supplies. Two soldiers carrying this box make up a single "combat unit" 2x1 or 3x1 (Soldier, box, soldier)" which moves around the map just like two soldiers carrying a mortar or two soldiers carrying a heavy machine gun.

 

[Alienkiller]

Yes Open X-Com is nice, but it don´t decive the Problems the old X-COM Row have. The same deems for other Strategy-Games in the 1990 and 2000-Decades.

Either the Games were to complex [f. e. old X-Com: there you had to perform 100 % correctly in it´s Research-Tree and if you did only 99% you lost the Game / in other Games there was the Management or Whatver].

The other extreme were that the AI cheated a lot [f. e. the Command & Conquer-Series or Dune-Series].

Some will now come and say, but there are Refits of this Games or Tools to make them Playable on new Systems again with Bugfixes, Reworks and so on. Yes, that´s true, but sadly both Extremes aren´t solved, dosen´t matter what have been done so far. The 1990 and 2000-Decade Games still have their original Extremes. 

The Alcove-Games, which try to solve the both above announced Extremes are very rare. Thats the UFO-ET-Row, Hearts of Iron 4, Stellaris, Xenonauts 2, Battletech, old Wing Commander-Row, old Privateer-Row and complete new Refits of Existing Games (like f. e. the new XCOM-Row, upcomming in Refit KotoR-Row and the Mafia-Row).    

Sadly some big Game-Companys and much more important Players don´t see the or wanna see the done Failures in the Past (most big Companys begunn that Failures in the beginning 2k-Decade and never changed that in the 201x / 202x-Decade). And I know many of that Failures in more then 30 Years of Gaming on the C64/C128, some Consoles and first PCs up to today (the today on PC with a +).

What the Lockers in the Transport belongs: the only Feature I liked was that you get Reserves in the Level-Beginnings (if they were big Missions) in the first 2 X-COM-Games (Enemy Unknown / Terror from the Deep) as well as the upgrade Ammonation-Test in the 3rd X-COM-Game (Apocalypse).

An new Test about that was getting in with Phoenix Point, if you have your APC with you. Maybe we will get such or similar Backback-Elements in Xenonauts 2 and the UFO-ET-Refits. The second Thing is absolutely clear in the UFO-ET-Row [testable in UFO 2 ET].

Edited December 16, 2021 by Alienkiller

[Komandos]

If a player in the game can bombard a UFO crash site, why not give him the same opportunity in a ground operation? In addition to artifacts, the player will not lose anything, but have fun. I support the idea: boxes with additional equipment (ammunition) on board the helicopter.

[Alienkiller]

We will see what happens. Like said

5 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

What the Lockers in the Transport belongs: The only Feature I liked was that you get Reserves in the Level-Beginnings (if they were big Missions) in the first 2 X-COM-Games (Enemy Unknown / Terror from the Deep) with the extra Locker in the Transport [if I remember me correclty for 60 Parts].  An new Test about that was getting in with Phoenix Point, if you have your APC with you to Backback more found Equipment.

What Upgrades of Ammo and Grenades belong: The Upgrade-Ammonation-Test was firstly be done in the 3rd X-COM-Game (Apocalypse). The Ammo-Upgrade was integrated in the UFO-ET-Row. The first time in UFO 1 ET Standard- / Gold-Editon and with the UNI-Mod for the Shotgun. An fix Part it is for UFO 2 ET and the new UFO 1 ET Platinum-Edition.

Maybe we will get such or similar Backback-Elements and extra Storage-Elements in Xenonauts 2 and the UFO-ET-Refits.

We can give Suggestions and the Devs decide what is possible and what not. In many Games like the new Mechwarrior we got with the 2 DLCs many Surprisses. Mostly the Devs can´t bring in such elements in the Main-Game and bring in it later with an DLC about several Reasons. The Main Reasons are: major Jobsisites which have to be done which we Test, Upgrade, Rework and Refit already. 

Everything else we discuss here is Secondary and Tertiary. After the Groundbase is stable, fully functionally and playable, then first then come in Secondary and Tertiary-Parts. Some in the Base-Game others with DLCs.