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andy079

Have antfarm bases been completely abandoned?

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So I know that the original Kickstarter idea of having 1 "antfarm" base like FiraXcom has been abandoned. But why can't antfarms be used in the current (X1) multiple base system? Especially now since facilities have adjacency bonuses, antfarms are a better representation of that.

In any case, I hope it doesn't stay/look like X1 base building. It's been 6 years, surely there can be improvements there? Sorry if I sound frustrated, but X2 is more like X1.25 or X1.5 so far. There has been no improvements in the projectile system, shot targeting, hit feedback, base building, air combat. But that's getting off topic

What do y'all think?

Edited by andy079

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@andy079: Yep that the new Base get disbanded is sad, but for the connections of Geoscape, Base-Attacks / Base-Defenses etc. nesseccary. We tested it very very very long and tried to fix the Problems, but the only fixing to get the connections stable were to downgrade from that to the older system. It´s like the Airfight-System an interim Solution, because there are not all Features etc. in it yet.

We have to wait and see.

Edited by Alienkiller

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2 minutes ago, Alienkiller said:

@andy079: Yep that the new Base get disbanded is sad, but for the connections of Geoscape, Base-Attacks / Base-Defenses etc. nesseccary. We tested it very very very long and tried to fix the Problems, but the only fixing to get the connections stable were to downgrade from that to the older system. It´s like the Airbase System an interim Solution, because there are not all Features etc. in it yet.

In my opinion having antfarm bases is more valuable than having an exact copy of your base for base defense. But I wasn't there when the y'all tested them so I respect the decision. I hope it can at least look better

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That we hope all. Like said, there is not all implemented yet. We have to wait and see what Features more will come in.

Edited by Alienkiller

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15 minutes ago, andy079 said:

So I know that the original Kickstarter idea of having 1 "antfarm" base like FiraXcom has been abandoned. But why can't antfarms be used in the current (X1) multiple base system? Especially now since facilities have adjacency bonuses, antfarms are a better representation of that.

In any case, I hope it doesn't stay/look like X1 base building. It's been 6 years, surely there can be improvements there? Sorry if I sound frustrated, but X2 is more like X1.25 or X1.5 so far. There has been no improvements in the projectile system, shot targeting, hit feedback, base building, air combat. But that's getting off topic

What do y'all think?

Yeah, as Alienkiller says the main reason is that you can't do a proper map for a base defence mission. There's also logical issues that become more obvious like Hangars not being connected to the surface etc, but they're less important.

Making "improvements" is a tricky to balance to find given we've got to preserve what made the original game good. A lot of people would consider not having proper base defence missions a major downgrade and would be very annoyed if we ditched those just to get a cosmetic upgrade to side-on bases. We've added a power system and an adjacency system and several new buildings to the base system, but it seems like it still feels "old" to you because the visuals are largely the same - but then we've updated the visuals in the ground combat without hugely changing the mechanics, and it seems like that also feels old to you too.

Not a criticism, just pointing out that it's not true that there's been no improvements to quite large areas of the game and I suspect that "this is old" feeling is actually coming from elsewhere. Possibly the fact that UI is currently looking very similar, etc. Hopefully that feeling will fade as we continue to add new features and restyle the UI.

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13 minutes ago, Chris said:

Yeah, as Alienkiller says the main reason is that you can't do a proper map for a base defence mission. There's also logical issues that become more obvious like Hangars not being connected to the surface etc, but they're less important.

Making "improvements" is a tricky to balance to find given we've got to preserve what made the original game good. A lot of people would consider not having proper base defence missions a major downgrade and would be very annoyed if we ditched those just to get a cosmetic upgrade to side-on bases. We've added a power system and an adjacency system and several new buildings to the base system, but it seems like it still feels "old" to you because the visuals are largely the same - but then we've updated the visuals in the ground combat without hugely changing the mechanics, and it seems like that also feels old to you too.

Not a criticism, just pointing out that it's not true that there's been no improvements to quite large areas of the game and I suspect that "this is old" feeling is actually coming from elsewhere. Possibly the fact that UI is currently looking very similar, etc. Hopefully that feeling will fade as we continue to add new features and restyle the UI.

I'm quite impressed with the steam festival ground combat demo actually. I think it's great, that's why I didn't list it in the things that haven't seen any improvements. Though I'm a bit disappointed that we still have the chunky "drawn in paint 400% magnified" targeting line (someone in these forums described it like that, and I think its hilarious, not in a malicious way or anything). Not to mention the way that ballistics and grenades work. I think they're the same as X1? At least they feel identical.

Edited by andy079

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2 hours ago, Chris said:

A lot of people would consider not having proper base defence missions

Speaking of attacking bases. I always tried to shoot down the alien cruiser before it reached and attacked the base. Unfortunately, such a cruiser does not create a crash site after the interception :(

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1 hour ago, andy079 said:

Though I'm a bit disappointed that we still have the chunky "drawn in paint 400% magnified" targeting line

The entire battlefield is a plane divided by cells. Such guidance shows in what cell an obstacle if it is. I think the use of a straight line may not be obvious enough.

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4 hours ago, andy079 said:

I'm quite impressed with the steam festival ground combat demo actually. I think it's great, that's why I didn't list it in the things that haven't seen any improvements. I'm a bit disappointed that we still have the chunky "line drawn up in paint 400% magnified" targeting line (that I've seen it describes as) though. I was also thinking of the way projectiles and grenades work, I think they're the same as X1? At least they feel identical.

Yeah, the graphics quality in the demo is what we're aiming at across the whole ground combat, and I'm glad you like it - although many of the other biomes aren't at that level yet. But we'll get there.

The chunky line doesn't necessarily have to be styled as a chunky line, I guess, but it does accurately represent the fact that the battlefield is made up of lots of tiny squares and those are used to model the path of the shots. It'd be possible to model shots in full 3D based on the colliders of battlefield objects (in fact it'd be much easier to do it that way than what we're currently doing) but then the hit %s become much wilder and harder to predict because cover objects aren't perfect cubes; it's something Phoenix Point does and although it's a valid choice I don't personally think it improves the gameplay.

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Chris, if such changes like you announce make it better playable and easyer then we will bring it in. We have to test it in Beta 18 / 19 first, to give an Opinion on it.

In Phoenix Point I like the Idea to say what Bodypart get shoot at in the Groundfight. That´s something new and a big Feature others will bring in in their Games of that Gerne earlyer or later.

X2 get many Ideas in already and make them better then the direct competitors in new XCOM / XCOM 2 or Phoenix Point. But Phoenix Point get many Reworks and Refits too with and after the last DLC. The Problem is that 3 more DLC´s will come and Phoenix Point in the Gamestile could get a big Refit.

That means we have to implement more Specials in X2 like the announced Must have ones and get upgrading the already implemented ones (Transport-Refits and Upgrades / Fighter-Refits and Upgrades / more Geoscape Elements etc.). If neccessary in 1 or 2 DLC´s for Xenonauts 2. But therefore the Base Game must be bombastic and it dosen´t look so atm on the Steam-Meanings, esp. after the new Ground-Combat-Demo.

Edited by Alienkiller

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I actually am lukewarm on Phoenix point's micromanagement. I feel like controlling everyone's shot is overstepping for an strategy game, but being able to not do the 95% chance and still miss thing is great. For me I just spam burst fire to never experience that problem in X1.

Edited by some12u

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The antfarms make less sense too. Digging and building underground is expensive and time consuming compared to just building outwards on the ground. It actually ends up being exactly the same, base management wise, so all it really has are negatives I feel.

As to shooting, as long as I don't have instances where bullets are hitting objects that really are far away and never should have been hit, X2 will be a huge improvement over X1. One of the biggest problems I had with X1 was that bullet collision detection was just not right. You would also have instances were you couldn't shoot aliens from a certain tile but they could freely shoot you. I imagine it's part of the same problem. So far, I haven't seen it in X2 which is really good.

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