Closed Beta V11 Balance Thread

[Alienkiller]

Yep that´s exactly what I mean Coffee Potato. That Option were in the last Build for Medical Room, Generators, Workshop / Research integrated.

To bring in that again should be easy in an Upgrade for Version 11, esp. with that we said: Hangars, Training Center. One more I get in Mind: Radar!

[Coffee Potato]

I must say that after testing it, I LOVE the MARS. I've seen complaints about the health, but I just want to point out that if you want to use it as a pure tank, you can actually slap a Shield on that badboy. Plus being able to use a stun baton makes it the best stun method in the game currently. I loved using a shield and shotgun MARS side by side, they were able to take on 5 larger Sebillians by themselves pretty much in the open for a far longer time than expected. Add smoke to the mix, and they are just amazing for so many things. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Coffee Potato

[Alienkiller]

Yep I love the MARS-Vehicle too. Only the Weak Points which aren´t closed are a little Problem. But as a fast Scout with light Weapons (I give it a Rifle and a Shotgun last time) instead the Heavy Weapon (LMG) they are a great help for the Soldiers.

[Coffee Potato]

Would it be possible to see current armor condition and effects on the map? I've been wanting something like that since Xeno 1, it would be good to know what everyone can still take. 

 

Also, I feel like there needs to be a reaction or tu penalty to the heavy armor. Right now that 5 weight is kind of a no brainier. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Coffee Potato

[drages]

On 2/11/2020 at 12:30 AM, Chris said:

Yes, this is exactly what I was going to suggest. The MARS spawns an item when it's destroyed (which is why the wreckage offers cover), and we can make that a recoverable item - and then create a workshop project called "MARS Rebuild" that only appears when you have MARS Wreckage in your base stores.

It's great idea! To let dead things at our side, can bring much more ideas too.. as modding at least.

[Coffee Potato]

For the MARS, I am loving the wall removal ability. I unknowingly just Kool Aid Bott'd a Cesean that was giving us issues, and it felt amazing. 

Also, on another note, what are the odds of Ceseans and Wraiths being able to bleed out? 

[Emily_F]

1) I really think you should get an aim bonus when crouching

2) The heavy weapons chance of hitting and/or suppression is still way off

3) Sectoids are ok.  Super-Lizards too difficult early on in the game, esp when there are so many of them. The only time I've seen Androns so far it CTD and then the first hotfix came. 

4) I've not had an ariel bombardment yet

5) The speed of base-building means I can get to March before I've got a second functional airbase somewhere else. 

[Max_Caine]

Opinions on the SMG

These opinions are not original - I've posted them before. However, I'm now posting them in the context of being able to use the SMG as a Primary weapon as well as Secondary. Currently, SMGs struggle to compete with other weapon types There's nothing it does that can't be done better by the OG Primary weapons. It need a new niche, as well as staying within the bounds of authenticty and credability (I won't use the word "realistic" in a game where you fight 7 foot tall regenerating lizards from space). 

The SMG

The SMG could be a contender for close quarters role, just as SMGs are used IRL but we have to be aware that the shotgun is also intended for this role so, while both weapons should compete, there shoudn't be a clear winner (otherwise you'd only ever kit out soldiers with one weapon type).

Suggested changes:

Remove single shot and aimed shot. Leave only burst shot and increase burst shot to 4. The shotgun fires one shot that splits into 4 pellets. To compete with this, allow the SMG to fire more shots per burst. Removing the single-shot modes tie into other later changes, so will be referenced there.

Reduce cost of burst fire from 50% to 20%. This is probably the key difference that changes up the SMG. By making burst fire so much cheaper, you transform the SMG into a spray and pray weapon. Typically, a squaddie armed with a SMG with a reduced AP cost will fire 2-3 bursts in a turn. This makes it very good for storming prepared positions, e.g. breaching a UFO. It is this change why single-shot should be removed, because if you make burst fire cheapo, single shots loose their savour. Additionally, this makes the SMG one of the few first starting weapons where ammo management is important, because with the increase in shots for burst fire, it's very easy to dump the mag.

Reduce damage from 20 to 14. Without changing damage the two previous changes make the SMG OP. But, if we reduce the amount of damage the SMG does per shot to that of a pistol, a single burst is unlikely to kill an alien, you'd probably need 2 or 3, unlike a shotgun which can kill in a single shot. This change also makes the SMG more authentic, as it is now using pistol rounds, as SMGs have historically done.

Reduce range from 16 to 12. The SMG has a 3-tile advantage over the shotgun, but the range of the SMG should not compete directly with the assault rifle, I say reduce it to help shape its niche.

Reduce suppression damage from 20 to 10. The increase in bursts makes the SMG suppression king, which is more the LMG's role. By halving the amount of suppression damage done the SMG is more likely to suppress at close range after several bursts, but not just one!

 

In summary, I currently can't see any reason why the SMG should be kept. As a Primary, the OG Primaries outstrip it. As a Secondary, the pistol is the better choice. The SMG needs an overhaul, and by push it towards its historical role as a close-quarters high rate of fire weapon, the SMG could be preserved both as a Primary and a Secondary weapon. 

[stewpidbear]

In ‘authenticity’ terms smg damage should per bullet be the same as a pistol, same ammo, unless you go down the route of small calibre ap ammo (as in P90 or Mp7).