In the Defence of Armour

[TrashMan]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 4:28 AM, Bobit said:

Exactly, that's like 10 different random status effects, pretty complex. If you just throw those on a random roll and they just last a turn, that's going to add very little depth and maybe just luck. Random status effects aren't bad, but they should consist of a few distinct categories which change your strategy in interesting ways, like engine or rudder damage on a plane, or retreating.

How is what I described a random status effect?

It's not random (depends on what is hit and how hard) and it doesn't last a turn. A crippled arm doesn't heal itself in a turn or two.

 

 

Complexity usually adds depth. It's just that other kinds of complexity could add more depth. For example instead of working on making this and explaining it to users, they could add variable squadsize/equipment missions or a loot-based research tree that's more of a research web like OpenXCOM mods do.

That is a terrible way. Not only is it less coherent and sensible to have random, pointless limits like that, but it also screams ARTIFICAL. OR are you telling me you wouldn't have to explain that to the users, but something as natural as bleeding or broken arm is too complex to understand?

[Alienkiller]

We could test the new Armor-System and Weapons-System since the Weekend more or less.

It works very good for both sides. Example Cevlar-Vest vs. Alien Magnetic Weaponry (Pistols / Rifles).

The Beginning Tactical Suit is Armor-Level 1 and only to see as Clothes with little Protection.

The Beginning Tactical Suit with the Cevlar-Vest is Armor-Level 2 and gives 20 Extra-Hitpoints.

The beginning Alien-Magnetic-Weapons (Pistols / Rifles) are Level 1 Weapons and do per Shot 30 Damage.

That means that a Soldier with Cevlar-Vest can absorb 1 direct hit and gives then no Protection anymore. The same would happen to the beginning Standard-Weaponry you have with lesser Damage to the first Alien-Magnetic-Weapons.

Beta 13 is the first Big Refit-Version to existing Betas and need some Hotfixes for the 3 Main Bugs we found already (Mission-Complete to Geoscape, Armor-Change to fighter Aircraft and the Countdown-Missions).

After a Hotfix is there we can test more, esp. with upgraded Armors, Weapons and the new implementations.

 

 

[ApolloZani]

Two values: Armor threshold. Armor effectiveness.

 

Armor threshold determines the amount of damage something has to do to actually do damage. Example:

Pistol does 10 damage to 15-armor. Zero damage.

Next pistol damage rolls 22. 22 damage.

This lets you get those sweet sweet no-damage pop-ups, and if you go through the armor, you get to do damage. Getting to do damage is so much better than hitting 1s and 2s.

 

Armor effectiveness provides %reduction after damage threshold. Gives all armor a minimum effect.

Pistol rolls 22 damage to 50% effective armor. (22 * 0.5 =) 11 damage.

 

Weapons can get a penetration value which directly negates the %reduction of armor effectiveness.

Shotgun has 0-armor penetration. Rolls 80 damage against 50% armor. Does 40 damage.

Sniper rifle has 40-armor penetration. Rolls 80 damage against 50% armor. (50% - 40% = 10%) Does 72 damage.

 

Ablative armor is nice from both a realism and a gameplay perspective. Armor does lose its effectiveness when its beat up, but even shattered ceramic plates are better than nothing. Gameplay wise, it's nice when a stray shot doesn't put your guy in the hospital for a few weeks. I think the best solution here is to have a small HP shield on top of health. If you want more realism, you can say that this small shield directly adds to armor threshold and effectiveness until it's gone, ensuring that that armor stats show armor MINIMUM effectiveness. If you want easier to understand simplified, just say that it's additional unhealable HP on top of HP, under the armor system.

All that said, I don't think an X-Com style game really needs an armor system the player can easily understand. It's a very random game with so many interacting systems that it's almost better if the player isn't given full information for how everything works. Just a general idea for how effective things are. This is more of a simulation and less of a game, a toy not a puzzle. A system that feels good is more important than one the player fully understands.

Edited June 24, 2020 by ApolloZani

[MrAlex]

There were many interesting ideas here, I do not understand why it was decided to use this one

On 6/15/2020 at 2:55 PM, Alienkiller said:

Cevlar-Vest can absorb 1 direct hit and gives then no Protection anymore.

Instead of this

On 6/24/2020 at 11:08 PM, ApolloZani said:

Shotgun has 0-armor penetration. Rolls 80 damage against 50% armor. Does 40 damage.

Sniper rifle has 40-armor penetration. Rolls 80 damage against 50% armor. (50% - 40% = 10%) Does 72 damage.

As I wrote in another topic

On 2/8/2021 at 12:31 PM, MrAlex said:

One shot makes one hole in the armor, if it penetrated. The next shot must re-pierce the armor, if it did not hit the same hole. For example: If one hole was made in the soldier's back, the armor still has to protect the chest. That is why the current armor is not normal.

The probability of getting into the same hole is very small, so it can be ignored. It will be more correct if the protection of armor will reduce the value of weapon damage each time.

There are three ways to calculate damage:
1) simple (Non-destructive armor): Every hole in the armor is ignored because the probability of getting to the same place of armor is small.
2) Medium (fixed destruction of armor): each hit (if it pierces the armor) deals damage and reduces the protection of the armor (other shots will do more damage)
3) Complex (real armor behavior): Same as in example 2), but calculated separately for each part of the armor (arm, leg, chest, back, head, etc.)

If desired, using a modular armor system, you can create a unique combination of armor and various shields (gravity, magnetic, etc.). Shields will work as additional armor (what we have now for regular armor: each shot reduces the protection of the shield depending on the weapon damage)
The shields may recharge when the battery is changed. (Using a large% TU, provided that the soldier has another battery)
Armor will provide protection when the shield stops working.

Edited February 16, 2021 by MrAlex