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Has the community dragged this back to being X1 with a new coat of paint?

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They are in, you haven´t seem them yet if you are Beta-Tester.

1. The Base-Buildup looks the same as in X1, but you can identify the Buildings much better now. And you can set Technicans as well as scientists to other Baseparts (like Workshop, Labs or Sikbay).

2. The Fighters get new Suspensions for Armor etc.

3. The Geoscape gets recruiting Missions for Scientists, Workers or if you are full you can choose Money.

4. The Geoscape gets spezial Missions too against the Aliens and spezial Alien-Missions which all are time limited.

And much more you have to find. The most things are still WIP, but there are much changes in the Game already and others which will come in for more Beta-Versions and first Early Access Versions until the Game is finalisied.

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Phoenix Point is good example of how introducing new mechanics that deviate from original for sake of change can harm gameplay.

Lot of combat problems there came from developer trying to mix things up by introducing XCOM2-based class and abilities, which unfortunately did not turn out to mix well with the design of UFO Defense. The battle is almost entirely skill-dependent at the cost of other tactical elements, and ironically leads to reduced variety in team composition (if you don't go with "correct" build of heavy/sniper or shotgun/sniper, end game becomes near unplayable difficult). Making power difference between rookies and veteran too strong has also led their difference in performance to be too different, making soldiers less disposable and making gamers less inclined to be favourable toward perceived unfairness of aliens. In short, Phoenix Point is suffering because it's been designed as realistic strategy game while new element has shifted the game towards gotta-nuke-everything-in-single-turn puzzle style of XCOM2 battle.

While sequel is good opportunity to add additional mechanics that support the original gameplay, I am glad Goldhawk Studio is choosing to build a solid well-proven foundation first, because then the developer can add new elements based on that foundation and also track how it affects game design.

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The Game isn´t ready yet and they have changed many things back to a working Process. Yes there are new Games which have a better concept or Programming, but this games are in the Future. XCom / XCom 2 and Phoenix Point are playing in 201x to 21xx.

But there are only 3 Games which brings the Story to the real UFO- and Alien-Story-Beginning. Xenonauts and Xenonauts 2 is doing that with a tactic / strategic Game (like the orignal X-Com). And XCom: Bureau, which is a Shooter and a Prequel to the new XCom-Series. They are playing in that time, where the cool UFO- and Alien-Time was (from 1950 to 1980s).

I wasn´t impressed of the changes which get in since the last versions too, but if that was needed to make the Game fully playable, then it has to be so. And the Community was asked about that. For that give the Community the blame, which botched that and not the Developers.

But we will get missing things implemented (which weren´t in the orignal X-Com-Series and Xenonauts 1), overworked Standards etc. Next year I think Feb. / March all "normal" Gamers can see what has changed to the original Xenonauts and Games which Xenonauts 2 is constructed on. And how good the Beta-Testers did their work.

 

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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I am very concerned about this game, its not even xenonauts 1.5 its just the first one in 3d. None bought the first one for the graphics and the second one looks like a game from 2004 so thats not going to be a selling point. So i have to ask. whats the point of this game ? same soldiers same buildings same aliens, weapons, research, geoscope, air combat, mission types everything is the same.

Here is what they could to differently. how about a game set in the 80 after a nuclear apocalypse. the aliens land their ships in the hotspots(randomly generated) and you have to fight them off.One thing that always bugged me about xcom is how convention military is pretty much absent but in a nuclear apocalypse this makes sense. Instead of underground bases make towns, buildings are actual buildings, you get funding from the civilians in your cities(that you have to rescue). add mutating soldiers,psionics and rad resistant power armour.

Yea i know its too late now but im seriously not going to buy xenonauts 3d , its pointless

Edited by fall19

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If you don´t like it, don´t buy it.

Frankly speaking I´m in some Parts not happy too about the Game-Change to some older Things with 3D Look. But if the Game is then stable, bugfree and everything works we can be happy about it. It´s better than an Game from a big Company which has everything new and you can´t play it. But therefore the Devs here tried new things, which were good but not stable / workable enough.

It´s like the good old X-Com and new XCom-Series. Take that what is working and upgrade the Game with Missing things and / or Changes on the Geoscape, Airfight etc. Xenonauts 2 remembers me exactly on X-Com 2 Terror from the Deep, which get the good things from X-Com 1 Enemy Unkown and Missing Things / Changes.

Actually it´s in Xenonauts 2 with it´s Beta-Version 10. You don´t have the cool new Base which were announced on Kickstarter anymore, but an cool Upgraded Base-System with 3D Look and other Features. It look like a mix from the new Base Concept (with some cool Features) and the old Basebuildup-Screen in 3D. If they have brought in the Limitation-Things which I said for the Secondary- and Tertiary-Bases (because the First-Base "ATLAS" is your Main-Base with Research, Attack-Soldiers etc.) then it feels much better like UFO:ET from 2007. 

The Devs then decided to use stable things from the first Game which are working without Problems, because the Beta-Testers are doing her Job great up to now. If the Beta-Testers say that and that don´t work after XXXXXX-thounsend fixes, reworks etc. then it´s better to use something older that works. And that has be done so far and will be done in further Development in some Parts.

And the Base-Concept in 3D is going back to a Q&A-Thing from the Devs which were asking the Community. And I think 80 % wanna have the old Buildupbase-System back. That we have now in 3D, which looks cool. Same with the Airfight-Concept, which the Devs have to fix some things there to make it perfect.

 

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Personally, I've pretty much given up with this game now. It really is X1 in 3D. Lots of good suggestions along the way have been ignored or batted away by the devs. Such a shame, because it could have been a fab game. I wouldn't contribute to another kickstarter project based on this experience. 

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You're saying this as if an improved Xenonauts is a bad thing and it has to be something completely different.

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That was my impression too after the ATLAS-Base was gone (the Base which is shown in Kickstarter) in the last Chances from the Beta-Versions. But there are much improvements already in the Game and many more are still comming.

The Game won´t be 100% Kickstarter-Promised about things not working correctly which were sheduled for Xenonauts 2. So it will be 60% new (special Missions in the Geoscape, Upgrades for Weapons and Armor, Secondary Weapons etc.) and 40% overworked (Basebuilding, Airfights, Standard-Groundmissions). If the Game runs fine then, instead to have a unplayable End-Version (like in the most big Companys), it will be so. It´s better to have a 40 % overworked Game and 60 % new Things / integrated things, then a 0 % playable Game.

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I feel like the trajectory of the project is going where it needs to so far, based on how features have evolved. 

Ant farm base was neat, and my vote had been to keep it. That being said, the current base system feels a lot less awkward, and setting up base defense like original XCOM really got me excited. 

Other features seem to be getting spruced and planted across the board, so no complaints from me. I wanted Xeno with better presentation, mod potential, and more interesting options, which seems to be happening. 

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I'm also disappointed by all the changes that got dialed down or cut back... but I also felt that way about some of the changes made during Xenonauts development, so I'm trying to give Chris/Goldhawk the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how it all shakes out.  The end result will probably still be a pretty good game, even if is more of a remake than a truly original work.

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Something I would like is being able to know what the androns truly are. I love the fluff there is on the first game, plus what the Lore+ mod adds, and I would love to see that area expanded on the second game. As long as the game feels different enough without making radical changes I'll be happy. Also, this is a crazy idea of mine, but it would be amazing if I could "hack" an andron and use it for my own purposes, since it's hinted they're sentient beings that were reprogrammed as war machines (I don't know if that's on the base game or in the Lore+ mod)

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Posted (edited)

Well what is a 2 game supposed to be?

It is supposed to be similar to the first game. So of course Xenonauts 2 should be very similar to Xenonauts 1. It should have been a continuation of the story in Xenonauts 1 with new features and gameplay arising naturally from that continuation of the story.

Instead the original plan for Xenonauts 2 looked like a really bad version of Xcom: EU. But people got behind Xenonauts 1 in the first place because it wasn't like Xcom: EU. So really the problem was that Xenonauts 2 wasn't originally a continuation of Xenonauts 1!

 

From what I saw of the original changes it was Xcom: EU with worse graphics and worse gameplay. When they made Xcom: EU they decided to heavily focus on making the game a turn based squad game and so creating things like an action cam, soldier abilities, awesome graphics, etc. Xenonauts 2 however would have none of that. It would only have the superficial changes everyone hated about Xcom: EU. Specifically the change to a single base being constructed anthill style and air combat that boiled down to RNG.

 

A good upgrade from Xenonauts that would make satellite bases useful is to allow satellite bases to hold troop units that be used to auto resolve ground combat and create heavier restrictions on the ability of Xenonaut crews to run back to back missions. This would require the player to maintain multiple units ideally in multiple locations to combat the multiple downed aircraft. And since most of the battles will be resolved via an automated system the player won't get bored and tired of resolving the multiple downed UFOs. Nor will they feel they are missing out if they auto resolve the UFOs and therefore feel like they have to play through every single one. This was a huge fault in Xenonauts 1.

Edited by Shahadem
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Personally, already played beta more than I've played first game. Small little changes here and there made it more enjoyable.

- Like ability to break UFO walls make ground mission feel much less grindy as exactly the same UFO can now be breached in a different way

- New way of management of Scientist/Engineers feels more engaging, previous version was more of "how much money I spend on these guys" type of thing

- I'm loving new sounds, weapons sound like they have a good punch behind them

- reworked aliens and characters look pretty good in 3D and it's easier to read "specials"

There are other things but this is just what jumped immediately to mind.

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Considering Xenonauts is one of my favourite games of all time (even surpassing UFO: Enemy Unknown), I'm eager to see Gold hawk's finished product. Remember that things can be added by the mod community.

It would be, perhaps, nice to see some alien weirdness (such as floating eyes) thrown in though...

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So is there an date on when Early access will be out?

I Kinda wanna play this game, gief

Edited by Ersmajo

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No it´s still in internal Testing. The Devs are working realy hard and doing their best, to bringe the Game 2020, but I don´t think you wanna have a Game like most big Company Games. An unready Game dosen´t want anyone. So you and the other Comrades have to wait until the Testers are saying the Game is Ready for Early Access.

The Game get new and promised Contents in all Parts (Geoscape, Base, R & D, Soldiers etc.) which have to be tested first. And that isn´t done in 2 Days. Therefore you need Weeks. As well as missing Research Text, Storyelements etc. are comming in and reserve Research Texts get out and will get the correct Texts.

You see the Game isn´t still ready yet for Public Early Access. I think it will be Summer (June / July) to get Early Access if all goes well.

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On 1/29/2020 at 3:15 PM, Ersmajo said:

So is there an date on when Early access will be out?

I Kinda wanna play this game, gief

Not yet, no - although once things slot into place and the game is at the standard I'm happy with, I suspect the Early Access launch will happen very shortly afterwards (like 6-8 weeks).

The points raised in the posts above explain the source of the delays. The initial idea for the strategic side game was much simpler in some areas, and when we realised that wasn't improving gameplay we made the decision to revert several mechanics back to the state they were in X1. I feel like this was definitely the correct decision for the project and I know a lot of people were very happy about it; after all a lot of people enjoyed Xenonauts specifically because it was the most complex and simulationist of the various X-Com esque games.

The problem though is that we can't just remake X1 and expect people to be happy with it. The Early Access build needs to demonstrate several interesting new systems right from the very start of the game so it's immediately clear that other changes to the formula ARE happening - i.e. having strategic operations or the signal uplinks on the Geoscape, having the modular armour system working with your starting soldiers, supporting greater equipment customisation on the aircraft, etc. I think people will be happy to give us the time we need to finish the project if they can see clear evidence that there are going to be interesting changes and new content, but I think we'll get a lot of negative Steam reviews if we don't.

So right now the main thing is to get those interesting new systems in the game. Once we've got a few of them working well we can name an Early Access date and then spend a couple of months frantically polishing the game in preparation for launch :)

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For those who weren't here when Xen1 was being developed, Chris and his team pretty much delivered everything they said they would. So don't worry. This man's very honest and wants to produce the best game he can. Don't worry - him and his team will get there in the end. Perfection takes time! Play something else whilst you are waiting - there's plenty of good stuff out there. Remember - it takes a lot of time to make a great game these days as they are so complex. Other company's have 100s of staff - Goldhawk is much smaller.

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This is an original X-Com clone.. a clone should be same at core and got improvements here and there with nice additions. There are people out there who wants to play an original xcom game. So this is it. There are many franchises which failed so bad because they changed their core at next installments. 

To be honest, if the engine was good, we won't even need this. Because X-1 got everything and beyond for people who wants xcom experience. Yeah, it was weak as core game but mods and XCE project handled that so good even against that broken engine. If the engine was good, Goldhawk would make many improvements and expansions already. So for that reason, we needed a remake of X-1 with all the experience and solid ground. A "working" game got always a chance to improve. Working means here to have bug free core elements, like proper shooting, proper AI, proper cover.. 

Chris made the right choice here. I am happy with that. I hope he can make a very solid, bug free core game. With the mod support, there is no chance to fail.

To be honest, i got huge hopes about Phoenix Point but that game got a long way content, game play and bug wise.. i am so happy that, they started with Epic, so in my mind, the game is still in development and they got time about 1 year before they come to steam.. probably much more polished and with needed expansion/DLC's..   

So for short, it's a remake of X-1 which is needed and waited for a loooong time. I will wait more if needed. Chris is our only chance to have a proper modern X-Com.. If a solid ground combat needs time, he can have my years.. 

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Yeah it´s similar to the good old X-Com Titels. But it has the Advanteges of the new and old X-Com Titels combined and get working elements from Xenonatus 1. 

1. The Game is now 3D in Ground Fights and has a rotating Camera. That we could test in the free Ground-Combat-Feature from GoG Galaxy long time ago. 

2. The Base Build Concept is the same as in good old X-Com and Xenonaut 1. But you can (if it´s implemented again like in the first long-playable Betas from Xenonauts 2) set Soldiers to the Training Center, Scientists / Worker to the Generators, Hospital, Hangars etc. 

3. You have now Weapon-Upgrades, which were not implemented in Xenonauts 1 and the old X-Com Series. You have to Research them first and then you get a Workshop-Order for all Weapons (f. e. you can make your Ballistic-Weapons 20% stronger).

4. You have now the Modular-Armor System which was firstly implemented in X-Com Apocalypse and later in the new XCom-Series. The Modules you can upgrade later too (like the Kevlar-Vest to a better Protection)

5. You have now the Modular-Aircraft System (with Armor and Weapons). Weapons were implemented in all Games, but the Armor-Modular-System is new. It´s working like the Same as on Soldiers.

6. You have Vehicles again. Not big as in the old X-Com-Series [EU / TftD] and first Xenonauts. And you will need them, that I can promise. ;)

7. The Soldiers, Enemys, Civilians etc. are all in 3D. Esp. the Enemys are looking in 3D much more angst-indung then before (Xenonauts 1 and the old X-Com-Row). It´s from the feeling you play the new XCom-Row only in the 2nd Xenonauts against organic Enemys / Robot-Enemys.

8. The Geoscape get max. Improvements with Special Missions and other surprises.

9. Special Researches help your Founders and esp. their Security (Police etc.) in all points later on.

10. Special Surprises are get in and there will come more until the Game is finished.

There could be more i have forgotten. But you see, Chris and his Team are making the best Game from all Predecessors in one. And you will get an official Modding support to the Finished Game if the things the Devlepors and Beta-Testers get in for you aren´t enough. But for the most Gamers ist will be, that we can promise.

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I think one of the best new additions has to be the ability to rotate the map. That makes a BIG difference sometimes.

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On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 11:41 AM, fall19 said:

I am very concerned about this game, its not even xenonauts 1.5 its just the first one in 3d. None bought the first one for the graphics and the second one looks like a game from 2004 so thats not going to be a selling point. So i have to ask. whats the point of this game ? same soldiers same buildings same aliens, weapons, research, geoscope, air combat, mission types everything is the same.

Here is what they could to differently. how about a game set in the 80 after a nuclear apocalypse. the aliens land their ships in the hotspots(randomly generated) and you have to fight them off.One thing that always bugged me about xcom is how convention military is pretty much absent but in a nuclear apocalypse this makes sense. Instead of underground bases make towns, buildings are actual buildings, you get funding from the civilians in your cities(that you have to rescue). add mutating soldiers,psionics and rad resistant power armour.

Yea i know its too late now but im seriously not going to buy xenonauts 3d , its pointless

"They didn't change it, it sucks!" VS "They changed it, now it sucks!". It's a battle you cannot win so it's pointless to try.

If more of the same, or a more refined formula doesn't do it for you and you require a completely new formula, then this game isn't for you.

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I've been playing on the stable beta (8.3?) recently, I've been enjoying it, things are good, air combat simplified and less daunting, then I realised I wasn't on the most recent version and updated...

 

Air combat is back to the way it was in 1, there's a few progressive differences and some shinier graphics, but all in all I feel like I'm playing a mod for 1 rather than a new game. Xenonauts 2 had some big, bold ideas on how to make creative differences, and I appreciate things don't always work out and things change, but after 200 odd hours in the first game and a good 20 in X-2 I'd be hard pushed to tell anyone what significant differences were that set it apart from X1 aside from graphics.

 

I'm really enjoying the game (apart from air combat, always hated this real time system...) and I'm sure I'll enjoy many hours in whatever is released, but I was hoping for something a little more diverging from 1, not for the sake of it, but to show what was possible

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I dont mind if X2 becomes an "advanced" clone of X1. I mean hey thats why we are here and why we loved the game in the first place. What I dont want to see are simple esthetics that repeat from the first game, like the geoscape looking exactly the same or the science/manufacturing screen having a slight shift in UI and then creating new art for the exact same placing of the back picture. 

Certain types of smart changing(in the right way) can go far on crowdfunded resources so it makes it "feel" different. I certainly hope that what we've seen so far are place holders. Yes aesthetics/eye candy is skin deep but if it doesn't advance enough it makes the game feel the same and hence the bickering and bantering begins in the thread. The ground combat for now has the most strength in change.

Chris if your viewing, please look into adding the comprehensive features lists back into the "Xenonauts 2 features" sub thread. Once upon a time there was loads of information that could pump the community on whats to offer. Currently we are getting news as it comes of things that are stripped back(being perfectly normal for game development) but it gives a stagnant feel to the project. There are still underlining features that make X2 better than the first, but they are being overlooked.

Edited by roxxed

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15 hours ago, Naresh said:

I'm really enjoying the game (apart from air combat, always hated this real time system...) and I'm sure I'll enjoy many hours in whatever is released, but I was hoping for something a little more diverging from 1, not for the sake of it, but to show what was possible

Understandable. However I think if you'd played the final game with those exciting new mechanics, you'd probably have eventually concluded that X2 was less of a game than X1 once you'd got over the initial novelty and possibly been left a bit disappointed. Making X2 "more of the same but better" should ensure that everyone who enjoyed X1 also enjoys their time with the sequel - although I get it's conceptually less interesting.

2 hours ago, roxxed said:

Chris if your viewing, please look into adding the comprehensive features lists back into the "Xenonauts 2 features" sub thread. Once upon a time there was loads of information that could pump the community on whats to offer. Currently we are getting news as it comes of things that are stripped back(being perfectly normal for game development) but it gives a stagnant feel to the project. There are still underlining features that make X2 better than the first, but they are being overlooked.

Most of those threads are out of date now; as I've mentioned above most of the changes are quite subtle and we're only now at the stage of development where we can be testing the new ideas. I'm already compiling a list of the changes relative to X1 and I'll probably want to publish it for the Early Access launch, but right now we're still experimenting with those changes and figuring out which ones work and which ones don't.

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