Throwing grenades

[Arturius]

A simple suggestion to improve the way we see Xenonaut soldiers throwing grenades.

Right now it's very hard to predict where a grenade will land, so I suggest introducing a marker similar to the one in Jagged Alliance 2.

There we had two "cursors" - one was showing the target tile you were trying to hit, while the other (it was red cross) was showing a place where your grenade would most likely land.

Please look at this example, it shows a grey cursor that indicates the zone I want to hit and in the meantime red cross is telling me a that grenade cannot reach it due to obstacle in the way.

If that feature is already planned please do not throw grenades at me.

[Corporal Hicks]

Don't know, It would make too easy to throw a grenade.

If you had to throw a grenade, would you know exactly where it will land? I wouldn't... It can roll off, you can make a bad throw, etc..

The only thing that irritates me is when you gonna throw a grenade inside a room/ship, and you're standing right in front of it and the grenade hits the door and lands on your feet.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Corporal Hicks

[Demnevanni]

The only thing that irratates me is when you gonna throw a grenade inside a room/ship, and you're standing right in front of it and the grenade hits the door and lands on your feet.

A solution to that could be having two modes for grenades. "Throw", which would work like in the original X-COM, and "roll", which would make it move along the ground.

[cybrbeast]

I would at least very much appreciate an indicator if the throw is likely to hit a close obstacle near the Xenonaut like a doorframe or box instead of near the intended place.

I also like Demnevanni's idea, you could roll through a corridor, throw if you need distance, and I would add lobbing if you want to through over something like a fence or on top of a building, it would of course decrease distance. As an aside most soldiers are trained to mainly lob grenades, because grenades are quite a bit heavier than a baseball, and if you lob a grenade it tends to stay where it lands instead of rolling on past the target. Also the target has less time to respond due to the grenade being in the air longer.

[Corporal Hicks]

The option to roll the grenade would be really welcome

[thothkins]

Would that require any updates of the sprites or would people be fine with a rolling grenade coming straight from the soldier?

[Corporal Hicks]

Would that require any updates of the sprites or would people be fine with a rolling grenade coming straight from the soldier?

I couldn't care less for the sprites! LEt's roll those grenades!!!

[Max_Caine]

Hicks, how many people will, though? People can get hung up quite badly on little things. Or they can let 1 thing from a game ruin the rest of the experience for them. Case in point, the Mass Effect 3 ending. People had an awesome time, right up to the ending. And the ending seems to have coloured their entire perception of an otherwise great game.

I think that Chris might be able to get away with any "use item" animation he might have - say the medipack "use item" animation might pass muster.

[Corporal Hicks]

Good point. Sometimes I just think that what I want is what all other people want. Yes, I'm like that sometimes.

Maybe using the same throwing animation? The use item animation is a good call.

[Infinitum]

As long as the grenade is guaranteed to land in the general vicinity of what I aimed for (as opposed to, say, consistently hitting the wall next to the door I'm throwing through) I'm good.

Seriously, my soldiers not being able to throw through a doorway they're standing in doesn't add suspense, it makes me wonder why I even bother to begin with.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Infinitum

[Swe_Racoon]

Don't know, It would make too easy to throw a grenade.

If you had to throw a grenade, would you know exactly where it will land? I wouldn't... It can roll off, you can make a bad throw, etc..

The only thing that irritates me is when you gonna throw a grenade inside a room/ship, and you're standing right in front of it and the grenade hits the door and lands on your feet.

However, the red cross is only an indication of where the grenade might land, not 100% true. It just lets you know if it's within range, and if an obstacle is in the way or not.

[Arturius]

Swe_Racoon is right.

As I stated in my first post the red cross shows where your grenade would most likely land.

The option to roll the grenade would be nice too, but if we get something similar to my first post idea I don't think we need alternate "fire mode" for grenades. (Unless the devs planned some special grenades - like proximity mines - boomerangs from Apocalypse?)

And I do not think throwing grenades will be too easy with that. It is just an interface change (double cursor) that makes tactical choices more transparent , not a serious buff that makes the game "too easy".

[Chris]

We are planning to improve the grenade throws. They are pretty pathetic at the moment.

[Swe_Racoon]

Might chime this in as well. I once had a solider in basic armour throw a grenade, during the throw animation the sprite changed to the one with jackal armour. Just noticed it that once, but might be worth to throw up here.

[Max_Caine]

Swe Racoon, that one should go in the bug forum.

[Swe_Racoon]

Crap! My bad, though I was in the bug forum. I really am too tired to be on here writing stuff. My bad, my bad.

[Comassion]

We are planning to improve the grenade throws. They are pretty pathetic at the moment.

I found the grenades themselves to also be pretty unimpressive - just for fun I tossed one in the middle of my own troopers in the Chinook, just to see what would happen. It got a couple, but most were still standing after being right next to a grenade blast. It took three to get 'em all.

[Corporal Hicks]

I think the grenades should me more powerful, or at least do more realistic damage.

Does anyone ever watched those mythbusters episodes in wich they tested the blast range of grenades??

If a grenade goes off near you, it´s certain death.

[Gorlom]

Is that because of the blast or the shrapnel?

Either case gameplay > realism in the case of explosions. Unless its Michael Bay explosions, then realism > Michael Bay.

[Oktober]

Weird. I wish I hadn't come across this thread. One of my mans in my squad is a dedicated nade-chucker/medic. Every single nade he's thrown so far has landed exactly where I've wanted it.

Reading stuff like this always makes me paranoid that suddenly my game isn't going to run as perfectly as it has been. The Wile E Coyote effect.

However (and pls don't yell if this has already been answered!) are we eventually going to get the option to Prime grenades? I mean, 9 times out of 10 I want them to blow up right away anyway, so it's not a huge deal. Just seemed like an odd exclusion.

[Corporal Hicks]

Is that because of the blast or the shrapnel?

Either case gameplay > realism in the case of explosions. Unless its Michael Bay explosions, then realism > Michael Bay.

Hi Gorlom,

You die from both. If you are inside a 2 meter blast radius it's certain death, just from the blast. And you are "lucky" if you dont have a piece of you ripped appart. If it doesn't kill you right away you certainly will die within minutes from the trauma (internal bleeding / organ damage), gonna be deaf for sure. The shrapnel can kill you if you scape the blast range, hundreds of sharp metal shards flying in all directions... Not good to be around those when they explode.

[Max_Caine]

Hicks... do you remember from X-Com what one of the best early-game strategies was, before you got lasers? Explosive force, and lots of it! If that meant saturation bombing of areas with a combination of grenades and rockets from the HWP, then so be it! If grenades are too deadly, then they will become the weapon of choice, with projectile weapons used only when absolutely necessary. RotGtIE's analysis of weapons shows what happens when a weapon is too deadly. I don't say that grenades couldn't stand for some tweaking, but this is one of those many situations where gameplay > realism.

[Gauddlike]

Grenades will also be able to ignore cover so they have a niche for when you just can't get a good shot into the enemy.

They are also a weapon that can hit an area and/or around corners.

Chris is also talking about all of the higher tier grenades having a proximity setting, if there is time and money enough to do it.

Personally I couldn't care less about prox grenades as I never use them in the originals but some like them.

I like the simple way of doing it now, just prime, throw, and boom.

[Korval]

...

Personally I couldn't care less about prox grenades as I never use them in the originals but some like them.

I like the simple way of doing it now, just prime, throw, and boom.

I totally agree. In fact, although I haven't run into many tactical games that I've enjoyed enough to play much, I'll generally skip all explosives in *any* given genre. Big/high-tech guns were always more effective, more fun, and a more efficient use of my time. The only two exceptions I can think of are thermal detonators in Dark Forces (I was wicked good with those for some reason) and laser trip bombs in multiplayer Duke Nukem 3d (multiplayer only). Oh, and aoe weapons in fantasy-themed games. For some reason I find myself using them all the time.

I recognize that proximity explosives are supposed to be good tactics, but maybe I just suck at planning. I always seem to be in one of two situations, neither of which calls for proximity fuses. 1) I don't know where the enemy is far enough in advance to plant mines or 2) the enemy AI is too dumb to follow me. Also, backtracking over an area I've previously mined is wholly counter-intuitive to me. I won't think of it until my umpteenth reload and my every other idea has failed. Also, I tend to be too stingy with munitions too mine my flanks or unused entryways "just in case." Maybe this game will change my mind on this last point.

[Corporal Hicks]

For the proximity grenades to work, we need the aliens being more pro active. The Prox Grenades won't add anything to the game if the aliens are hiding inside the ships or buildings, just waiting for us to break in.