X2 Base Mechanics - Community Poll

[Decius]

If a fatigue mechanic were to be implemented, counting time spent in transit as a major contributor to fatigue could be interesting, since it would be trading off different strategic resources.

[Wyldefyre_CP]

On 6/25/2019 at 11:27 AM, Ravn7 said:

Also, in the game, there could be missions with a few UFOs landed. Like a squadron of three small ships or one bigger and one smaller. That would be something new in the franchise. 

That's actually kinda cool just to even think about ... not just in terms of a base assault, but shooting down more than one UFO and then going out to deal with more than one on the battlefield.  

Or, if the work to fight more than one ufo at a time in the air seems like too much of a mess, your radar could pick up 'more than one landed craft' in an area - presumably, for something like alien base construction, which might be accelerated if more than one ship was left to get it set up.  I could see some interesting crossfire scenarios with having to deal with 2 separate alien ships at opposite ends of the battle map, and, as I tend to split my squad into 4 and 4 anyway, perhaps having to continue with those split formations even once the aliens ship(s) have been discovered.

[Ninothree]

Yeah I don't know why multiple crash site UFOs aren't a thing. Especially if you're doing a dogfight against a three-UFO wing. I think part of the fun of ground combat is pushing onward with an injured team. Having to go through multiple breaches sounds fun!

[Ravn7]

That's exactly what I was thinking. New tactics, new situations, new challenges.

[Alienkiller]

Let the Secret Base as it is. It´s enough for the World-Rescue and the other ones are Fighter Bases as they are.

You won´t have enough Money for more than 1 Main-Base "in that Game: Atlats Base". That´s a cool concept and have to be used. The Reason and Answer why is easy.

The System with 4 Main-Bases (like in the good old X-Com Series and some Clones like Xenonauts 1) broke the Games their Neck for following major reasons:

- More Bases means very high costs for Soldiers, Standardpersonal, Attantion and Upkeeps; that means you have to sell things which you need sooner or later to get the Game running on in higher Levels (like Alien-Equipment, Armor, Lifeforms etc.)

- More Lifesigns from Humans means more interesst from the Aliens, which means more Attacks and Destruction to them or takeover with PSI and then Destruction (esp. in the old X-Com Series and many Clones).

- You won´t have enough money for 2 or more big Bases (you had to sell everything you cover from the Field) to get the monthly upkeep costs , which means nothing left for upgrading your Interceptors, Solderequipment and modernising your Main-Base / Interceptor-Bases with Buildings etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Alienkiller

[Wyldefyre_CP]

18 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

Let the Secret Base as it is. It´s enough for the World-Rescue and the other ones are Fighter Bases as they are.

You won´t have enough Money for more than 1 Main-Base "in that Game: Atlats Base". That´s a cool concept and have to be used. The Reason and Answer why is easy.

The System with 4 Main-Bases (like in the good old X-Com Series and some Clones like Xenonauts 1) broke the Games their Neck for following major reasons:

- More Bases means very high costs for Soldiers, Standardpersonal, Attantion and Upkeeps; that means you have to sell things which you need sooner or later to get the Game running on in higher Levels (like Alien-Equipment, Armor, Lifeforms etc.)

- More Lifesigns from Humans means more interesst from the Aliens, which means more Attacks and Destruction to them or takeover with PSI and then Destruction (esp. in the old X-Com Series and many Clones).

- You won´t have enough money for 2 or more big Bases (you had to sell everything you cover from the Field) to get the monthly upkeep costs , which means nothing left for upgrading your Interceptors, Solderequipment and modernising your Main-Base / Interceptor-Bases with Buildings etc.

 

 

 

 

All good points about the previous games and their constraints, but who says you have to lay the groundwork for this game to follow lockstep down the same path?  Just need to make adjustments to the costs of certain key base structures / personnel etc. to make these things that could 'barely be pulled off' become 'yeah, there's still a trade-off here, but this is feasible, we can actually work with this.'

[Alienkiller]

Use your Brain to answer your Question yourself. Then you will know why more big Bases makes no sense. And my Points are Mentiond above are the other reasons. But I will explain it to you. I have done my Military Duty, so I can answer that.

First I wanna come back to my prev. Points.

- Aliens will firstly Attack Main Military Bases to destroy Resistanceabilitys. That´s Point 2 in my prev. List. That´s not only Holywood-Fantasy, because Military Ressistance is the Main Distress.

- Secondly you need big Personal, which means that you have very high costs. That´s Point 1 in my prev. List. An Aircraftcarrier costs about 1 Million / Day to keep fully operational and is filled with only military Ranks. In the Game the Main Base (Atlas Base) is your Aircraftcarrier. There you have your Personal (Scientists, Technicans, Soldiers) and your Standard Upkeep Costs (Generators, Laboratorys, Hangar for the Transport Craft etc.) With that example you see that´s not doable incl. other Military Dutys up to the essentials.

- Thirdly the Aliens will investigate the compact Livesigns in that Areal. And if they see an military Base they will destroy it like the Standard-Military Bases in the first wave.

You see about this Points more big Bases makes no sense. But there are more.

Additional following Points:

- Big Bases needs a new big area. That won´t be unnoticed by Civilians, Police and others. That People will talk and speculate. That´s an another Reason not to build other big Bases and combines with Point 3 of my prev. Points.

- The Main Reason to the End: Xenonauts is a secret Operating Organisation. Only the highest military / political Leaders from the Financing Staates (esp. UdSSR and USA) know the existance. And they get checked and if needes seperated from the others before. That get explained (only the highest and relaiablest Politicans / Militarys) in every Game from that Gerne I have played so far. So I can´t understand why you have to build other big Bases under Water (X-Com TftD) or on Land (X-Com Enemy Unknown, UFO-Afterseries and other X-Com Clones incl. Xenonauts 1). In that Case you can say to the Aliens. Look here we are, come and destroy us.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Alienkiller

[Dagar]

I disagree. And I have also done "my military duty", as if that signified anything.

Yes, Xenonauts are a secret organization, but not so secret that there is a chance that their existence is still in question to the aliens after the first few missions. Xenonauts are also a Guerilla organization against a vastly superior enemy. Do guerillas centralize all their assets so the superior enemy can take them out in one sweep? Maybe you should use your brain (just mirroring your borderline insulting argument style here). So, for me, multiple bases in this scenario make much more sense. If you now call them "big" or "small" or whatever does not really have a meaning in my opinion.

[Alienkiller]

The Base is there were no Alien or normal Human would go volutunary. It´s on the safest place you can build it up in the Arctis on Greenland. And I was in Greenland, there you can build up a Secret Base without beeing disturbed on a save place if you want. The Storyline of Xenonauts 2 is telling that we had a public Base which were destroyed in the first Alien-Attack / Alien Controlled PSI-Attack (maybe we get more Infos about that in a next Dev-Build) and the befriend Bases too. So normal Bases make absolutly no sense. Like I said before if you wanna have a normal public Base again. Take a Banner and write on it: "Here we are Aliens, take us down."

And one more Point for the 1 Base Design which is very important:

In the old Games incl. Xenonauts 1 you had only one playstile. Build up 5 Bases, upgrade them to the teath and don´t give the Aliens a Chance to make Hide Missions where you have to react. You handn´t such Missions which make the Games much more interessting. In her timeline (90´s, 2k´s) the old X-Com-Series, UFO Extraterestials, the old UFO-After-Row were the best of the Best you had.

OK it was nice to make a timestep back in Xenonauts 1 again. But it made the same Mistakes the old Games had. The Game don´t give a Challange. After you had build up 2 or 3 Bases with Jets and Transports you did ervery 10 Minutes the same (Shoot down UFO´s, make the Map); (Shoot down UFO´s, make the Map); (Shoot down UFO´s, make the Map) and that we can carry on forward to the lifeend of us. Between we had a Terror Mission or a Alien Base Mission if you were lucky. That was it until you reached the Endmission.

The Devs have seen the Problem and are making a complete new Game. Maybe the new XCom-Series and Phoenix Point give an second Reason with the open World Geoscape.

You have now in Xenonauts 2 to use your Soldiers in Recruit-Missions (f. e. Ingeneurs, Scientists [which you need every month] or more Cash if you need it / the Ingenieurs and Scientists are full atm), Infiltrator-Takeout, Special Missions [like Investigate Harbors, abonded Buildings etc.] and much more like in the new XCom-Series. You have small fighter Bases now, wich are your Ressilance-Bases against UFO´s (only the Personal you need for Work under the Radar).

The only Difference between the new XCom-Series and Xenonauts 2 is that XCom is known to the Aliens after the Supporters prink the knife in XCom´s Back (like the Legend from WW1 in Germany), but in the XCom Story it was done realy.

Instead the Secret Anti-Alien-Organisation in Xenonauts 2 is esentially secret. And you have your HQ on the best safest place on the World. In Xenonauts 2 this is Atlas-Base (which is the Reserve-Base for Xenonauts build up in Foresight and keep Secret), which is only known to the checked loyalist and sperated highest miliary and political leaders [your Financers].

And they build in what the other Games couldn´t and can´t do up to now. Only the new X Com-Series are in the same Leage with Xenonauts 2. The Phoenix Point Game dosen´t matter at this Point, it´s not for the Public to have on Steam, GoG, Blizzard. So it´s uninteressting. If it were availible there we could make a comparisson.

What the Games [new XCom-Series / Xenonauts 2 / shown Vids from Phoenix Point] make so uniquie is the one Base Concept, the open World Playstile on the Geoscape and much more. You are a secret Organisation and the normal Humanity don´t know you Organisation [XCom EU / EW, Xenonauts 2 / evtl. Phoenix Point (but we can´t test it, so PP dosen´t matter at this point)]. They only see soldiers which unknown Markings or no Markings fight the Alien Threat and that´s all. Maybe later your Organisation in Xenonauts 2 will be unfolded from the Storyline or whatever. 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Alienkiller

[TrashMan]

22 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

Use your Brain to answer your Question yourself. Then you will know why more big Bases makes no sense. And my Points are Mentiond above are the other reasons. But I will explain it to you. I have done my Military Duty, so I can answer that.

First I wanna come back to my prev. Points.

- Aliens will firstly Attack Main Military Bases to destroy Resistanceabilitys. That´s Point 2 in my prev. List. That´s not only Holywood-Fantasy, because Military Ressistance is the Main Distress.

- Secondly you need big Personal, which means that you have very high costs. That´s Point 1 in my prev. List. An Aircraftcarrier costs about 1 Million / Day to keep fully operational and is filled with only military Ranks. In the Game the Main Base (Atlas Base) is your Aircraftcarrier. There you have your Personal (Scientists, Technicans, Soldiers) and your Standard Upkeep Costs (Generators, Laboratorys, Hangar for the Transport Craft etc.) With that example you see that´s not doable incl. other Military Dutys up to the essentials.

- Thirdly the Aliens will investigate the compact Livesigns in that Areal. And if they see an military Base they will destroy it like the Standard-Military Bases in the first wave.

You see about this Points more big Bases makes no sense. But there are more.

Additional following Points:

- Big Bases needs a new big area. That won´t be unnoticed by Civilians, Police and others. That People will talk and speculate. That´s an another Reason not to build other big Bases and combines with Point 3 of my prev. Points.

- The Main Reason to the End: Xenonauts is a secret Operating Organisation. Only the highest military / political Leaders from the Financing Staates (esp. UdSSR and USA) know the existance. And they get checked and if needes seperated from the others before. That get explained (only the highest and relaiablest Politicans / Militarys) in every Game from that Gerne I have played so far. So I can´t understand why you have to build other big Bases under Water (X-Com TftD) or on Land (X-Com Enemy Unknown, UFO-Afterseries and other X-Com Clones incl. Xenonauts 1). In that Case you can say to the Aliens. Look here we are, come and destroy us.

You are wrong on all accounts. Putting all your eggs in one baskets is what makes no sense. Dispersion/redundancy is what militaries these days are aiming for. And guerilla style warfare with decentralized/spread out resources is the main way to fight a superior foe.

- Aliens have to find your bases first, and if a base is hidden it won't be easy. And given the sheer number of military baes around the world, the aliens have a LOT of work to do.

 - if aliens are capable of detecting lifesigns the neither a) the secret base wont' be hidden for long, so a single one makes even LESS sense, or b) the bases will be hidden within populated areas to mask their presence

- a global defense effort against an alien invasion will require a lot of personnel anyway. Given the sizes of real world armies and miltiary budgets, especially in such a scenario, it is not only doable, but necessary

 

As for the other points:

- people will not gossip to aliens. And things like the A-bomb project prove that you can have big bases that remain secret.

- how can aliens tell apart a xenonauts base from a standard military base?

 

I suggest you quit LARPing as some military expert, since you are clearly getting everything wrong.

[Max_Caine]

Now that people are openly insulting each other, this thread is now locked.