Gorlom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Ok, I probably got the years wrong. I did not infact check my facts on that one Apologies. Thanks for providing a source. america is more religious than most places in the western world, and as a result ends up getting blamed as the most squeamish place, as far as media is concerned. I think it's more about selective squeamishness. That America are so against the curse words and insinuations about sex, but have no problem with the violence or gore. It comes off as a double standard (even if that's not really the correct use of the term) I don't really know how much violence is glorified in the middle eastern media, if it is as much or in the same way as in the western media. I can't make any accurate comparison to that effect, but I have a feeling they don't have Michael Bay directing any movies (read: hour long series of explosions) over there. Edited June 1, 2012 by Gorlom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akavit Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Hmm. Bit of a topic derail we have going on here. It is also a particularly annoying derail as well. as religion wanes an aversion to gore becomes more pronounced. It would be pretty hard to support that statement in America. Obsession with gore has increased dramatically over the past 50 years based upon the content of movies during that time. Yes, the whole thing regarding gratuitous violence being more accepted within the entertainment industry than gratuitous sex and foul language is weird. However, there is one thing even more absurd and that is the way of thinking that we should attempt to balance the first by adding more of the latter two. Perhaps a more reasonable suggestion would be that the American fascination with endless amounts of gore, guts and decapitated body parts needs some serious toning down (perhaps it's a European fascination too but I wouldn't know since I don't live there). There is a reason why I am supporting a game like Xenonauts and not Wasteland 2 even though I actually enjoyed Fallout 1 more than X-Com. That reason is largely due to the different vibes of their respective forums. When I started reading the Fallout/Wasteland related forums after I had played Fallout I noticed some rather disturbing trends I'd not seen before in other game forums. People were saying things like... "The more violent the graphics and descriptions are the better!" "The sequel better let me be a porn star!" "Killing children was the best part of the game!" "There needs to be swearing and cussing in every conversation!" "Violence done right is bleeping funny!" It is true that not everyone (or even the majority of folks) made statements like the above but such conversations were in general, pretty well accepted or even approved on many of the sites I was reading. Now most people I would assume play games for enjoyment. The question I've asked myself is, "Do I really wish to take pleasure in doing the above mentioned things in recreational gaming?" The short answer is no. I do not wish to be like that. I'll gladly enjoy the tactical challenges of of a strategy game like Xenonauts but I can see nothing good out of teaching myself to relish the prospect of watching a monitor display of chunky bits of people flying around. Having said that, I'd prefer that the thread stop derailing into a discussion of the less admirable trends of computer gaming and focus on Xenonauts instead. Regarding the Xenonauts update, I'm happy to see that the inventory portrait of the female soldiers is well done. The number one reason I'm leery of games including woman characters is because many developers insist on cladding Barbie clones in skin tight jumpsuits or armor (for sci-fi) or bikinis (fantasy). Getting a game where they have normal, sensible clothing is a huge plus. Kudos to Chris for his design decision. Edited June 1, 2012 by Akavit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I generally think that games should down play gore/sex/language more often, not because I like censoring, but because its usually in games in order to make game have Mature rating and appeal to teenagers Aka I think game should have those only when its actually mature or done well instead of providing something for immature people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonVanCaneghem Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Regarding American TV: The most taboo thing to show on American television is anything remotely intellectually stimulating, which is why shows like Awake only last one season. The nudity regulations are pretty comical, because the intent is usually to prevent children from becoming "prematurely sexualized." Yet we have loads of shows about children copulating and reproducing, which is far worse. The violence and sex standards are pretty similar though... you can have a lot of implied violence and implied sex, so long as you don't get too graphic with either. Also, violence committed against zombies or other "monsters" gets a free pass to be as explosively visceral as you like. Upgrading base defenses: I like the workshop idea. The benefits of upgrading via workshop should be speed and cost. If you have a base without a workshop, and you want to upgrade, TOUGH you will have to do it the old-fashioned way (creating new defense system, then choosing to dismantle or keep old one). Upgrading to new technology always has some overhead, and this adds yet another strategic consideration. Auto-upgrade feels too "neat" and easy. If you are keeping the running costs of all tiers of defenses the same (which I would also disagree with), then I agree it makes no sense to ever keep any of the old ones around. But if the lower tier defenses are cheaper, then minor bases might not even need or want to upgrade to the more expensive to run defenses. It gives greater control over how much we want to protect each base. I've found that space isn't usually an issue outside of the main base, because typically the main base houses lots of research and production. Thus in minor bases, you'd not be concerned about reclaiming the build space that your old missile defense took up, since you're probably not maxed out anyway. If you ARE maxed out, chances are you have a workshop anyhow. If you're maxed out, and you don't have a workshop, and you still want to upgrade your defenses... well that's why build build space isn't infinite, it is a strategic concern. You might have to sacrifice some coverage while you dismantle and then rebuild. I also like the aesthetics of having a base where the old missile defense is sitting right near the fusion defenses, it's kind of a nice "how far we've come" feeling. Edited June 1, 2012 by JonVanCaneghem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 And either way, graphic violence is more harmful to them than nudity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stx Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Regarding sex in games/entertainment media: I think that it should be present if it fits the story/context. As an example of how it should not be treated, see the sex cards in The Witcher 1 (great game, by the way). The cards were completely out of context. The same devs released also The Witcher 2, were sex/romance is very well managed, as it fits nicely in the story. I believe CD Project Red studio, author of both games, is one of the best gaming company in these days. My opinion is that sex should not become the selling driver of the game. Generally speaking mature themes can be present in games, if used intelligently. Games are an expression of art.... The same concept applies for violence, albeit games today are on the opposite side of the scale. In many games there is too much violence and gore. Most of the times it is completely unneeded and out of context. Regarding base upgrades: I believe that just one build project could be sufficient to install upgraded defences in all the bases. Base defences are a minor aspect of the game. The micromanagement needed to upgrade base defences in every base does not add much to the game. I also imagine that in many bases there will not be a workshop. Many bases will be built only to increase the radar coverage or the interception capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I loved the "sex cards" in Witcher 1. As far as random gratuitous sex goes they were a great way to handle it (imo). The cards allowed a degree of explicitness to the occasion without going overboard. I found them quite tasteful (all things considered), they were sort of like erotic paintings. As far as casual sex goes W1 is the game to look at I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 And either way, graphic violence is more harmful to them than nudity. Who is "them"? The aliens?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swe_Racoon Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well, this has gone off the tracks and into the wild woods. I agree that one shouldn't counter the amount of violence with increasing amounts of sex, but rather that both can be applied if it fits the context of the game. The Mass Effect series is a good example, IMO. The sex scenes there are very much in the context of the story and character development you chose, and the violence was pretty "tame" by comparison to other games (no dismemberment and generally not much blood at all). And they remain the best RPGs I've played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I loved the "sex cards" in Witcher 1. As far as random gratuitous sex goes they were a great way to handle it (imo). The cards allowed a degree of explicitness to the occasion without going overboard. I found them quite tasteful (all things considered), they were sort of like erotic paintings.As far as casual sex goes W1 is the game to look at I'd say. Don't forget the Witcher (awesome) and Witcher 2 (not long started, seems to be good) both are made in Eastern Europe, which means they have slightly different views on things. Personally, I love it, as they pretty much treat sex and violence as serious mature content, rather than the "tits and guns!1!!" which seems to come from America. To go back to a Xenonauts related topic: I'm fine with either auto upgrading turrets, or just one global manufacturing job (research is shared globally anyway I think) to do the same thing. Having to do a manufacturing job at each base or click an upgrade button at each base is just wasting time and making you click more stuff for very little in my eyes. Edited June 1, 2012 by Buzzles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamoecw Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 i was less than impressed by mass effect's sex. the scenes are fine, but it seems that the entire universe has no culture that has casual sex, or multiple partners. heck it is almost christian/jewish/islamic minus the homosexual stuff. i am not saying that i have a problem with homosexuality, just the mandatory romantic connection for the sex to be considered okay (after all you could 'take advantage' of jack). the witcher had casual sex, and didn't rely on the sex to sell the game. which to me is more 'progressive' than the mass effect series, which has been given praise for it's 'progressive' approach to romance. personally i think sex makes pretty much everything better, except gore. i don't don't mind gore, i just don't like mixing sex and gore. i also don't like something trying to use sex in order to overcome it's shortcomings. as far as to what i think hurts the youth, media wise, would be the attitude that main characters have. if you have some sleaze groping women, treating them like shit, and they are attractive and either tolerate it, or like it, then you'll be telling people that don't know any better that such behavior is at some level acceptable. if he is the good guy for what ever reason, then that is even worse. if you have some guy beating people up and he gets his way, then again you are telling people it is acceptable. if some guy swears and it doesn't negatively impact his professional image, then again people are going to associate it with being okay. personally i think attitude of people in media has a bigger impact by far than the content within them. as far as the discussion on the base defense upgrades, everything sounds really good, so i don't really have an opinion. i do reserve the right to gain an opinion after i get to try it out in game though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) i was less than impressed by mass effect's sex. the scenes are fine, but it seems that the entire universe has no culture that has casual sex, or multiple partners. heck it is almost christian/jewish/islamic minus the homosexual stuff. i am not saying that i have a problem with homosexuality, just the mandatory romantic connection for the sex to be considered okay (after all you could 'take advantage' of jack). I was under the impressions that the blue all female alien race was rather casual in regards to sex. As long as they weren't in their maiden or mathriarc stage of their life cycle (forgot what the breeding stage of their life was called). You know like the 2 blue aliens that can join your party The third one that kills anyone that has sex with her doesn't count for that particular reason.. even though she was pretty promiscuous. In the first game they even had "the consort" or whatever her name was. She was practically a whore (that didn't even charge), wasn't she? I don't rcall anything about the Krogan social life. But I would have expected them to breed through gangbangs. Whoevers sperm is the most potent wins But the Salarians only reprouced, they never had sex as I understood it? As such they don't really conform to the Victorian values about sex. There is no stigma or fascination with sex. (I got the impression that the reproduction was through external fertilization, similar to fish) Edited June 1, 2012 by Gorlom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceVamp Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I don't rcall anything about the Krogan social life. But I would have expected them to breed through gangbangs. Whoevers sperm is the most potent wins Actually, what little fluff I read while playing nr 1 stated that the reason the Krogans were becoming extinct was because they had too little sex, they were all busy fighting. o.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 You guys are totally clueless about Mass Effect but I forgive you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Then I think you missed the part about the Salarian engineered plague the Turians released on them? That's the main reason in the decline in birth rate. What you were refering to was Shepards pet Krogan and his own theories iirc . Btw they (Krogans) have 4 balls in their scrotum and the blackmarket were flooded with spare krugan balls, because there was some rumor about replaceing your own gonads with someone elses would increase your fertility or something. Didn't make sense to me in the least but hey they were krogans, not exactly rocket scientists. ME2 reveals that they aren't going extinct, the plague is continiously updated and regulated to allow for breeding in diminished numbers without acctualyl letting them go extinct. dit: please enlighten us JL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Who is "them"? The aliens?!?!?! Children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swe_Racoon Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 [Mass Effect nerd goggles] Asari (the blue all-female aliens) have a pretty casual approach to sex in their early lives, Samara (a character in ME2 and ME3) says she spent her younger days "killing people, sleeping with people and dancing the nights away" (paraphrasing there). Krogan pretty much have a hard time finding a fertile female (thanks to Salarians and Turians), so they're not doomed due to a lack of sex, but rather a lack of reproduction. Salarians lay eggs, as far as I'm aware. I think they work like certain types of fish, in that the female lays eggs and then the male fertilizes them. Quarians are pretty restrictive about that stuff, according to Tali, since sharing their suit environment with someone is pretty hazardous.[/Mass Effect nerd goggles] TL;DR - Mass Effect covers pretty much the entire spectrum of sex if you bother to look. Younger Asari pretty much do it every night, while Quarians are very, very restrictive (generally speaking). Casual sex is an option for the player as well, Sha'ira in ME1 and Jack in ME2 if I'm not mistaken. I would wager a part of my tail that Samantha Traynor in ME3 is up for it too, or maybe that's a same-sex romance I mistook (which is something BioWare should get kudos for, IMO). EDIT: TL;DR = not so much at all. Just read or ignore at your convenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The New Romance Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Samara (a character in ME2 and ME3) says she spent her younger days "killing people, sleeping with people and dancing the nights away" (paraphrasing there). Just like all good people (sorry Montaron). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swe_Racoon Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I don't like dancing, nor do I kill people. Never had much luck with the ladies either, to be honest. Does that make me a non-good person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 That makes you a Swedish raccoon doesn't it? Whether you are bad or good are up for debate (but that bandit mask you are wearing makes you look bad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceVamp Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 What? No partysvenske? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoMask Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 What? No partysvenske? I sucked in Swedish in good and even I can tell that thats bad Swedish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I sucked in Swedish in good and even I can tell that thats bad Swedish Probably because its Norwegian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceVamp Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Probably because its Norwegian? Yeah, there's a big chance that is the reason tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 All Dutch to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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