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Hello Team,

Chris mentioned in one of his posts that RP elements will be in the game again. This time even closer to an RPG because of soldiers now have stats & skills (before they had just stats). I'd propose the Idea to give not only soldiers stats & skills, it would be nice to have the RP elements for scientists and engineers. Also, you have to save them in base attack missions. Both classes could specialise in the same way as you thought of the soldier (rifle skill vs. rocket skill vs. ...). Thinkable specialisations for scientists could be:

  •          Surgent: having a surgent in Base increases healing time of wounded units also he gets a bonus at autopsy speed.
  •          Physicist: he is specialised in this field, adding a bonus to his science hour value (making the research faster) if it is a physic project.
  •          Chemist: same bonus effect, if it is a chemical or metallic project.
  •          Construction specialist: same bonus effect, if it is a model or structure project.

Thinkable specialisations for engineers could be:

  •          Mechanic: decrease repair time of interceptors, dropships & vehicles.
  •          Builder: decrease the build time of any structure in your base. Also decreases damage penalties during base def missions (now it would made sense that aliens try to damage your stuff :-) )
  •          Armourer: he is specialised in making armours, adding a bonus to his work hour values if he works on any armour.
  •          Weaponsmith: same bonus effect, but if he works on any kind of weapon.

With such specialisation you add much more depth to the game. I know that this will make the game bigger again, but this could be giving many more choices to the player and much more depth. Furthermore, you could need to bring them in some special missions.

Beside the "three" classes already in game I propose a third one: Operative. He can be used within the base as well as field agent. In base the operative adds bonus to:

  • detection of UFOS
  • prices at sales and buys
  • to recovery of any fatigue

As field agent following he can do

  • spy operations: gives you an update about relations of the target block / country and others as well as to aliens if there are any.
  • recon operations: gives you an update about alien infrastructure in a region id there is any.
  • diplomatic missions: slowly advances your relationship with a block / country.
  • Recruiting missions: searches for veterans or advanced personnel instead of recruiting rookies in the labs, bays or barracks.

With that you would make my dream come true: a game with much RP elements in a strategy game.

Best Regards
ShadowAdmiral

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I mentioned this in another thread a few days ago, but you can't really specialise Engineers or Scientists because it makes the UI too clunky - we tried it and the game actually supports them both having different "skill" levels at their jobs, we're just not using the functionality.

The problem is that if all the scientists aren't the same, it's a real pain to assign a scientist to a task because the player has to choose which specific scientist every single time they do it. If they're all the same, it can be as simple as a single click assigning a scientist to a Laboratory or some other task .... which is much, much easier for the player.

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Well, players seems to hate streamlining, if the discussion about backpack, base expansion, weapon module and other topics is any indication.

And I quite like this idea despite its anti-streamline nature.  We already pick specific scientist / engineer in XCOM 2, just need to expand the simple list into an all-scientist/engineer popup that also all their skills, either in icon or in (small) text.

But what I'm really after is scientist and engineer "tags" that can be used in the geoscape event system.  e.g hire an enginner with underworld ties, see blackmarket event triggered for that engineer.
A meticulous scientist may yield slightly slower research but faster development, and may have an argue event with an impulsive scientist and you can decide to send them both to the upgraded recreation area (if it is build) to "fight it out".
If the impulsive scientist win the first scientist may even lost its meticulous personality.

I am sure this is not the focus of X2, but it just need to having the system in place and let modders dream up all the skills and personalities and backgrounds and all those RPG elements and events.
Just need the UI to show the tag on staff selection, and to show their (small) portrait instead of breaker icon.

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5 hours ago, Chris said:

I mentioned this in another thread a few days ago, but you can't really specialise Engineers or Scientists because it makes the UI too clunky - we tried it and the game actually supports them both having different "skill" levels at their jobs, we're just not using the functionality.

The problem is that if all the scientists aren't the same, it's a real pain to assign a scientist to a task because the player has to choose which specific scientist every single time they do it. If they're all the same, it can be as simple as a single click assigning a scientist to a Laboratory or some other task .... which is much, much easier for the player.

I thought about this argument. You have many more sientists than soldiers, so you are right it will be much more data and an extra GUI. To minimise this data you could use engineer teams and sientist teams instead. so you allocate only one or two teams to a sience or engineer project.

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2 hours ago, ShadowAdmiral said:

I thought about this argument. You have many more sientists than soldiers, so you are right it will be much more data and an extra GUI.

Hmm. I thought we are moving to the XCOM 2 model where staff is rarer than soldiers, given that the plan is to make it so that the players will have to reassign their room from time to time, for a more active base management.

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Compromiiiiise. Have a small set of scientists, these dudes are all Head Scientists. Each one can lead his or her own research team. Under that Head Scientist, there is bunch more peeps acting as a support staff, and it is those support staff who are the nameless resource to add or take away with a click. 

Say you have a Head of each science division, e.g. energy tech, aerospace design, theoretical physics etc... each Head is always working on a project but they are far quicker when you assign them staff scientists. Assigning those staff is really easy because they're all equal in value.

The upshot of this is that there is potential to have several research projects running simultaneously, depending how the calculations for assigning staff are formulated. I imagine it wouldn't even take that much extra UI, just an additional set of +/- buttons for each Head Scientist.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Scientists would be designed the same as engineers for that purpose.

Those non-combattants would have the same stats as soldiers, except they would be lower. Basically, they could use a side weapon, medipacks, etc.

These stats would rise through the same system (levelling up), except much more slowly, though I'd expect a seasoned physicist who have specialized in artifact retrieving for month to be at least as battle-ready as most rookies.

Each non-combattant would come with one proficiency and could "learn" another one during the game. These proficiencies would rise by conducting research and/or prototype production.

Any non-combattant could/would be assigned to a ground mission, a strategic mission (infiltrating a hostile laboratory, visiting an allied fabric), or a base defence mission. They could be mandatory to help securing artifacts, and evaluating assets before their destruction or before having to flee, but if you engage them on too many missions, and take too much risk, blame yourself if you loose them (and other lives).

Proficiencies could be: xenobiology, human biology and augmentation, astrophysics and space-born vessels, engines and life-support systems, ciphering & xenolinguistics, chemistry and physics of materials, mechanics and manufacture, weaponry and armoury, deception and psychology, tacops (tactical evaluation), computer science and security systems, communications, ...

Some proficiency could be shared with soldiers, like stealth and spying, diplomacy, ...

Each research project (fundamental, applied) would have several tags that match those proficiencies. Each non-combattant assigned to a project would contribute depending on the number of proficiencies he can use, and their level of proficiency. Each project would be defined by an average rating (or a man-level-hour number), and computing of the time needed before research completion, given the actual crew assigned to it, shouldn't be that hard to design.

As there would be a limited number of scientists (as/if there are a limited number of soldiers), manually affecting them to a specific project, or letting the game automatically choose the most useful ones, shouldn't be much of a pain.

 

If a non-combattant model is ever made, then pilots would be built the same, with same stats (higher values) and air fighting related proficiencies. Of course, they would be present during a base defence mission. By the way, any hospitalized personnel would be present during a base defence mission. Except if you consider the alien having a sense of honour and despising easy kills, or being so loud, that a whole base personnel has time enough to rush for an impervious bunker, and still be helpless when the only surviving alien has managed to kill the last defending soldier.

 

 

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Civilian field scientist (former archaeologist / linguist) effectively wielding Beretta akimbo by the end of the first season of Stargate SG-1.  End of argument  :cool:

SG1_-_S1EP21_M92FS.jpg 

He also gets pretty good at P90 and the Goa'uld weapons as well.  He always pulls that funny face while doing it though, haha

 SG1_-_S5EP1_P902.jpg 

Edited by RustyNayle
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I think it's good if you're going to share certain abilities between field techs and soldiers, that the techs start with very high values in their chosen skills and even though soldiers can also advance to some extent in these skills they never get as good as a specialised tech at the same level.  Vice versa, the techs can advance in their combat skills, but will never be as good as a specialised soldier at the same rank (although they will be better than a rookie soldier).

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