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Xenonauts-2 Soldier Inventory System Discussion

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1 hour ago, Sheepy said:

I mean to say BattleTech's weight is rarely a limit in one location (where number of slot is), but I stand corrected.

We've seen why adding TU it is not a good solution in the Alpha build, and it goes worse when you can drop, pick, and transfer items.
Lowering firing TU solves many problems, but not the issue that it means more attacks and actually increase damage output.

I think Phoenix Point got a good balance in this regard by limiting each soldier to one attack each turn, but attacking has variable movement cost.
A "lighter" weapon allows the soldier to move further before attacking, while "heavier" weapon effectively reduce the mobility of the soldier.
Most weapons also fire multiple shots for a bell shaped damage profile, which allow low accuracy to work out even with a single attack action.

Adopting this "one attack per turn" system would not prevents X2 from keeping the TU system or different firing modes, and it's perhaps worth experimenting.
It should work equally well to slot inventory and backpack both.

well is the issue that it allows for more attacks with this specific weapon an actual problem?...isn't it more like a balancing lever that can be pulled. much like in X1 you could run up to xeno's and unload a couple of snap shotgun blasts, allowing for huge spike damage. having a SMG that can land multiple bursts from a stationary position wouldn't be an immediate problem.

I am assuming that the system will keep the %TU used per attack, so leveling up doesn't allow for spamming burst fire any more then you would when you where a rookie.

single attack action is used most of the time when moving in X1, but one of the benefits was that when your units where in advantageous positions, they could opt to forfeit movement for more attacks..this is a benefit given by not having a dedicated attack action. and you could, if so desired, opt for different shot strings, snap-snap-snap-move/turn, burst-normal, normal-snap-snap, aimed-normal (assault rifle), that would give a similar bell curve level of accuracy.

single attack action also often comes with a lot of games introducing skills to use that other side of the action for things other then simply movement. throwing grenades, going into over-watch, going into a hunker mode or whatnot. personally...especially when the unit is armed with a semi or fully automatic weapon..I feel this makes little sense. (as there will naturally be situations where moving is undesired, and if attacking is impossible..the remaining Tu's are effectively wasted..as it would be odd if you can't fire your gun..but could magically toss a grenade or bandage up) 

and when units movement cost is tied to their active weapon, wouldn't having 2 primary weapons complicate this system (1 in backpack, 1 active), what movement penalty is used? does it become an average penalty? what happens when instead of using another primary you simply fill the BP up with blocks of C4...or ammo? 

now attack and move action systems are tried and proven concepts, and I am pretty sure it will work when tried in X2...I'm just not entirely sure it has many more pro's over cons relative to the current X1 style non-action specific TU system.

 

 

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On 6/30/2018 at 8:48 AM, Chris said:

I don't have a massive issue with people doing this if they really want to

Mmm.. Yeah. I think this ends up being more of an issue the more popular a game gets. With smaller communities, people seem to prefer challenging themselves as opposed to finding optimal play.

16 hours ago, Chris said:

That's also a possibility, but then you don't have a specific size for the backpack which is awkward in UI terms. I still think an overall "weight capacity" for the inventory may be a possibility; it just might be more abstracted than in X1 where it was explicitly expressed in KG and all the soldiers had different carrying capacities (due to their differing Strength). I guess it's kinda weird in the current system that all equipped items are equally heavy; I suspect that might come back to haunt me when I try to balance all the items later.

So long as I can smash'n grab an alien and their rifle or rescue a friend, it will be a happy system. And if there's no strength. And if there's no one true loadout. And if there's no ultra-fiddly UI. And if.. You know what, this is hard. Was there ever a problem in Xenonauts 1 development where people would just pick what later became the heaviest weapons? I know for release that my only real interaction with weight was finding people who could hold a shield while wearing Wolf Armor and getting people up to the 70+ strength to use the big guns but otherwise, I never really cared about that stat. I also never really used the mechanic of picking up stuff from the field. All my missions from normal to insane where basically all in. Terror sites might have been the only exception and even then, only on iron man. There's no granularity for victory there. If you abandoned a terror site, you were better off never having gone to the mission at all; no one says, "Well, you tried and I reviewed the reports. There was nothing you could have done better. Thank you for your sacrifices."

Half-finished missions didn't happen that often in the original XCOM either. Mostly you'd either do them as your first set before laser weapons came out or it was night and you didn't want to play find the bug, or you'd do it on the first ethereal mission since those only got more dangerous the further you went. Grabbing a corpse or stealing one of 'em to learn who's psionically fragile was a must and smash'n grab tactics were awesome for those. In Xenonauts, the closest I've ever come to a positive use of the system was saving my armor because I took too many losses just getting to the door of the battleship. Perhaps making soldiers survive their death wounds much more often could save this. Having turn timers for bleeding out unless you can carry them back to the skyranger sounds like the making of a scrappy mechanic, though; unless you can somehow automate it. For each soldier down, you stand a good chance of saving them if you're willing to put another out of the fight. That just sounds a bit too complicated and out of touch with the mechanical themes of this game, however.

16 hours ago, Sheepy said:

It'd be weird to have a grenade that is as wide as a Shotgun, but perhaps we can allow two or three grenades in a slot and space it out to make it less odd.

Replace medkits with grenades and ~tada~

maxresdefault.jpg

Not that the system is bad. It's quite mechanically sound, I just don't like how it feels compared to X-Com and Xenonauts.

5 hours ago, Sheepy said:

Adopting this "one attack per turn" system would not prevents X2 from keeping the TU system or different firing modes, and it's perhaps worth experimenting.

In some ways, I like this. You often commit to either burst fire, a decent shot, or a snap shot anyways; so long as you can move before and after shooting you'll get almost the same game. Just don't know how you'd communicate that mechanically with TUs since it just doesn't make sense that you could have time to fire off two snap shots but some invisible force is stopping you. You could have it so that you can only shoot when you're not moving but teaching the player that would be difficult. "Why can't I shoot, take a step, then shoot again?"

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I'd like once again bring up my "minimum requirements" for the inventory-system
("again", because the previous posts in this relation are still currently hidden since the thread in question are not "relevant" at the moment;
they hopefully will appear after the KickStarter-campaign / at the start of beta-testing / early-access-phase):

As long we are still able to "Individual First Aid Kit*" for every solider / any unit in the field alongside possibly still loadout for grenadiers / grenade-tossers (most importantly the "gassers"), then I personally am open minded for any solution you'll come up with.
*Could simplified simply as a "field dressing / emergency (Israeli) bandage /whatever similar things there are to stop bleeding / hemorrhages. 

(Naturally, only the "Medics" could carry more plentiful medical-equipment to the battlefield with a loss of extra ammunition or something else.)

(( And yes, this is also something Chris have said all soldiers should be allowed to carry a single-use bandage or something similar. ))

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Naturally, having a support for "item-passing" is going to be needed in order to allow the freedom we used to have in both (open)Xcom and Xenonauts.
(( I know Chris already confirmed this; I just simply wanted to voice my opinion on this just in case.

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Hello Team and Chris,

I was shocked about the item system. When they told in the demo that you abolish the classic item system I felt a big loss to the game. I never used a Sniper/Shotgun Combo. I never thought of that and also I couldn't. Why? Because your weight system prevents it and that is the best modernisation compared to the original system of Micropose's X-Com. Your reason about accessing secondarys easier is not good as well. The first thing I did was to create the medic role (the role system is a very good invention and I'd like if you work more on that). A Medic carries up to 3 Med-Kits, a Shield and mag-pulse-granades. Other Troops have only a primary weapon because they are mostly to weak to wear another primary. But they have up to 5 magazines (if Laser) and 3 grenades (mostly mag-pulse).

I understand that you want to get closer to "the state of the art" X-Com of 2016, but please think about it wisely. Is it good to get close to a game or do your own good thing that have proven to be exelent. I like that you modernise the original but I adivese you to stay as close to the original concepts as you could. You speak to the die hard fans of the original. Many will see this changes as offends.

Best Regards
ShadowAdmiral

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I think it will be like in the new XCom / XCom2 Series with following differences:

a) You have Armors which are upgradable with more protection (instead of a normal Slot from XCom / XCom 2)

b) You have Weapons which can be upgraded to a better version every time (XCom 2 uses it in an another form, wich you can´t use it anymore without a Bonus)

c) You have Slots for a Medipak, a Pistol and / or Grenade or Grenades (like in XCom / XCom 2 only better)

d) other things I have forgotten

Edited by Alienkiller

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7 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

I think it will be like in the new XCom / XCom2 Series with following differences:

I am sorry to break the news to you that Goldhawk is trying to move back to backpack.

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On 7/1/2018 at 6:27 PM, Sheepy said:

I mean to say BattleTech's weight is rarely a limit in one location (where number of slot is), but I stand corrected.

We've seen why adding TU it is not a good solution in the Alpha build, and it goes worse when you can drop, pick, and transfer items.
Lowering firing TU solves many problems, but not the issue that it means more attacks and actually increase damage output.

I think Phoenix Point got a good balance in this regard by limiting each soldier to one attack each turn, but attacking has variable movement cost.
A "lighter" weapon allows the soldier to move further before attacking, while "heavier" weapon effectively reduce the mobility of the soldier.
Most weapons also fire multiple shots for a bell shaped damage profile, which allow low accuracy to work out even with a single attack action.

(Edit: In Phoenix backer build, Weapons does not change total TU. Max sprint range always stay the same and not affected by changing weapon. Only attack TU change with weapon.)

Adopting this "one attack per turn" system would not prevents X2 from keeping the TU system or different firing modes, and it's perhaps worth experimenting.
It should work equally well to slot inventory and backpack both.

While I do agree Phoenix Point's system is a welcome upgrade to Firaxis' version, nothing beats the old-style TU model.  The thing is, Xenonauts plays out like X-COM, while Phoenix Point and XCOM have an entirely different system.  The way LOS works, the way the battlefields are laid out, it's just different.  If you were to use the current style of TUs in X-COM, you'd either die all the time or the game would be ridiculously simple.

In the old version, or X1's version as well, facing matters.  A LOT.  if you can't see it, you can't shoot it, but if it can see you, you're toast.  In the new version, the only thing that matters is if you have cover between you and the enemy.  You can see everything around you at all times.  Again, this works for the new games, but it doesn't translate well to X-COM style games like X1.

In the new system, you can't creep up to a corner, check around it, move past that hallway, check around the next corner, then go into overwatch or take a shot at a newly discovered alien.  With the new system, you move to the first corner, can then see everything 360° around you, and then you have the option to shoot, overwatch, or move once more and end the turn.

The other thing that I don't like about the current system is that when an alien 'pod' is revealed, the aliens then scatter for cover.  This adds a pseudo real-time system to a turn-based game.  Again that wouldn't function well in the old system.

As it stands, the old system really only allows you to take about 2 shots a turn, which isn't any different from a soldier with a perk under the new system.  What the old system DOES allow is better control of non-combat actions.

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That sounds good. I loved the Backpack in Xenonauts 1 and that´s a Standard equipment for every Soldier. Today we use a Backpack in every Army since it comes anything new.

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On 7/12/2018 at 12:19 AM, endersblade said:

In the new system, you can't creep up to a corner, check around it, move past that hallway, check around the next corner, then go into overwatch or take a shot at a newly discovered alien.  With the new system, you move to the first corner, can then see everything 360° around you, and then you have the option to shoot, overwatch, or move once more and end the turn.

There is a difference between shot once and move once.  Phoenix Point currently do the first but does not do the later.  You can move part by part, evaluating your options at every corner or, if you like, every grid.

By the way, no, I don't think anyone is proposing that we add alien pods that acts when you see them, so don't worry about that.

Edit: Ok... Phoenix Point does not limit your fire. Either they changed that or I was mistaken.  Now it use a TU system and a fixed fire% that varies by weapon.

Edited by Sheepy

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Having read through this, I can really emphasize with both the desire to get of the backpack and the desire to keep it. I hope you guys end up making this work well.

That said; maybe it would help to let the backpack be your secondary item? That gives you the immediate drawback of not having easy access to any secondary item, reduces the usefulness of turning your entire squad into a bunch of pack-mules and gives you a piece of UI where you can show "this is probably the guy whose inventory you want to check", You might even be able to show some icons on the secondary slot to show what's in the backpack.

It would probably mean the user would have to swap out his primary item to use any secondary item, which might still take a lot of TU, or they'd have to drop the backpack while they handled a secondary. (That might even leave them immobile unless they decide to discard the pack entirely.)

Either way; it'd fix the "looking for that guy" for the most part and give the backpack an easy disadvantage that would keep you from giving a stuffed one to everyone in your squad. But you could still have a dedicated pack-mule running around with a bunch of spare gear, because you never know when you need that rocket launcher, or flamethrower, or breaching charge, or whatever.

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Here's another idea, thinking slightly outside of the box.  Or backpack, for that matter.  In X-COM/TFTD you could put extra equipment on the ship that sat in a little pile, and could grab stuff as needed.  What about doing something similar?  You can't tell me the troop carrier is so tightly packed with soldiers that we can't throw in a few extra weapons and equipment.  That would solve the issue of the 'sniper/shotgun' build (which I'm noticing that really nobody actually does, based on the comments here) with the current system - you still just have one primary weapon, but you can go back to the ship to swap it out if you want.  You just can't do it on the fly.  It would allow you to carry extra 'nades and med kits in case the battle is getting ridiculous, more ammo for weapons that tend to chew through it (like LMGs in X1).

No need to create graphics for it or anything, just make it so that as long as you're standing in the tiles within the your ship you can swap equipment out.  Give the troop transport some purpose other than just sitting there being cover for the first 1-2 rounds.

 

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You can Upgrade the Transports and Fighters in the Game, if you have the reaserched Tech. And the Transport is used for getting Supplys, transport buyed Equipement, bring new Personal to Base etcpp. The Transport is used for much more things as only for transport your soldiers to a Mission.

But back to topic:

The soldier inventory today has a Backpack too, because it transports your other Materials for the field. In Xenonatus 1 and 2 you have there secondary Amunation, the First Aid Kit and if needed some Explosive Agents in the Backback. If you make it right, your soldier don´t loose Time Units, you have only to watch the wight he / she can transport. More than easy.

I loved it in the first Xenonauts to take a bit more Ammo or have an Explosive with me for stronger Enemys which where bulletproof at the beginning. After the explosion you weaked them and could get them down after a while. And my soldiers had every time full TU´s. :D

 

Edited by Alienkiller

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I haven't had time yet to read all the posts here, but would like to give my opinion on the starting post.

- Secondary slot: I like the idea.

- Squad view. Like the idea.

-Contextual slots: Like the idea.

But I also liked the old x-com style backpack. One of the reasons given in the post for removing backpack is a sniper changing to a shotgunner and "what's his weakness then?".

Now to be more realistic, as I see it.
For one, if your soldier is skilled in both weapons and tactics needed for these and has the physical abilities for them, then why not? Considering that elite commando units in real life are trained in multiple roles... and xenonauts should be elite commandos. On the other hand, most units will probably excel in a few areas. Being a sniper or a close-up combatant needs somewhat different skills, not only in weapon usage, but physically and tactically as well. A sniper needs to take a planned shot, takes more time but needs steadier hands, good eyes (higher aim skill) and good concentration. Also may need to hide. A shotgun or machine pistol using close-up soldier doesn't really needs these, they may need more health, quicker reflexes (more TUs or reaction skill), faster legs and hands, being mentally able to rush into enemy fire, think more quickly etc.  Now in a game such as this, if you can make it so that enough of these skills are implemented in a way that they seriously affect combat effectiveness, then I think your problem is non-existant. And old x-com style games, incl. xenonauts do offer this possibility, though it could be enhanced.

The other reason was the tediousness of backpack usage in missions. Why I agree on it, it didn't really pose a problem in early x-com games afaik. And, the secondary slot system and the already existing grenade and ammo slots (which were in xenonauts1 but not in x-com) do help a lot; so that backpack is accessed only for some very special and rare occasions. (Maybe some special sensors or one-time use items etc.)

- Strength: I don't see why the weight limit should be implemented for the reason of making the game harder (as suggested by the comment on the grenades). Strength is there for some measure of reality. That's it. Now some people will simply not be able to lift a heavier weapon. I think that makes for more varied gameplay. In previous games you had to look out to choose stronger soldiers for machine guns or similar. It is also good because it actually helps choosing in who will do that job.
However, you could limit the amount of strength soldiers gain from use/training if you feel that veterans are overpowered. After all, xenonauts are probably chosen from already well trained soldiers.

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On further thought, you could actually use Strength if you want to keep your sniper from carrying or efficiently using a shotgun (though I don't think it would be a good idea).

Further clarifying the backpack+secondary slot idea: I think many soldiers would want to be equipped with a sidearm (pistol, knife, baton etc.) in a secondary slot, but also carry some extra stuff such as medikit, sensors, c4, toolkits etc. that need to go somewhere - either in a tertiary slot or the backpack...

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2 hours ago, hoemaco said:

- Strength: I don't see why the weight limit should be implemented for the reason of making the game harder (as suggested by the comment on the grenades). Strength is there for some measure of reality. That's it. Now some people will simply not be able to lift a heavier weapon. I think that makes for more varied gameplay. In previous games you had to look out to choose stronger soldiers for machine guns or similar. It is also good because it actually helps choosing in who will do that job.
However, you could limit the amount of strength soldiers gain from use/training if you feel that veterans are overpowered. After all, xenonauts are probably chosen from already well trained soldiers.

I agree. I prefer the gear limit being strength rather then arbitrary 'you filled your primary and second slots so you're done'. Grounds the game in a bit of reality IMO. However I also agree in X1 it got really fiddly as they gained strength as they powered up. Checking gear before each mission to pack an extra grenade or clip just because they can got a little tedious. Also when a skilled soldier dies, fiddling with your custom class gear that is now way to heavy for a fresh recruit to get them down to the bare bones of what they need is equally tedious.

If strength makes a return I'd like to see all soldier have the same base strength with a penalty for being overweight and a bonus for being largely underweight. The reason I say largely underweight is it would be silly to bog your guys down to the max, minus 1 grenade, and get a bonus. However if you are say 20kg below the max maybe a slight bonus would be warranted because you are clearly giving something up. As far as increasing strength, there would be very few means to do so as these are already (in my headcanon at least) top of the class highly trained recruits at the peak of fitness, and any means they have would be by predictable set amounts. No fiddling with a 1 or 2 kg bonus. Maybe have an light exoskeleton as a stepping stone between jackel and predator armor. Give us the choice of more armor or more equipment at the wolf armor tier.

Edited by Warfrog

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Another thing to consider, and this for all topics in the forum, would (should) be the target audience.

Xeno1 it was obviously aimed at those who wanted an original X-com (UFO) feeling and not the new Xcom feeling.

Now I see  things proposed (such as the new inventory, the fatigue system etc) that are practically taken verbatim from the new XCom. It doesn't mean they are bad (I do like many new ideas), but you should consider if you want the game to compete with the new xcom game (which may not be an equal grounds match) and meanwhile lose the oldstyle gamers.  I mean do take new ideas but somehow manage to keep things that remind people of why they are playing this game and not (only) the blockbuster shiny graphics 3D AAA game.

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21 hours ago, Warfrog said:

I agree. I prefer the gear limit being strength rather then arbitrary 'you filled your primary and second slots so you're done'. Grounds the game in a bit of reality IMO. However I also agree in X1 it got really fiddly as they gained strength as they powered up. Checking gear before each mission to pack an extra grenade or clip just because they can got a little tedious. Also when a skilled soldier dies, fiddling with your custom class gear that is now way to heavy for a fresh recruit to get them down to the bare bones of what they need is equally tedious.

Yeah, as I've mentioned previously this is the biggest thing I want to fix about the inventory system - every soldier has a different STR and therefore a different weight limit, so equipping / changing a loadout is unnecessarily time consuming and fiddly. And soldiers are slowly gaining strength by carrying gear ... which only really grants them the ability to carry still more gear, but still requires a loadout tweak after every mission.

I'm actually quite tempted just to use the X1 system but with a standardized carry weight per soldier. The system I proposed earlier in the thread with the backpack giving TU deductions is great and all, but then means a soldier carrying a LMG and wearing Wolf armour has the same TU as a soldier with a pistol and basic armour. Tweaking the X1 system and adding the secondary slot is probably enough to make the system significantly more usable without removing the complexity people like.

23 hours ago, hoemaco said:

But I also liked the old x-com style backpack. One of the reasons given in the post for removing backpack is a sniper changing to a shotgunner and "what's his weakness then?".

Yeah, my thinking on this has evolved over the course of the discussion. The weight system already has the ability to negate overly versatile soldiers, so that whole point really boils down to "if you limit the soldier to 1 weapon, you can put stat bonuses / penalties on the weapons" ... and you can do that anyway if you make changing weapons sufficiently expensive in terms of TU.

So yeah, I don't actually think I am opposed to soldiers carrying multiple weapons into battle after all. As with the point above this discussions has been helpful to allow me to focus and adjust my proposed changes to improve the usability without taking too much away from the players.

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Chris, I think there's another possible tweak to the TU/carry weight thing. In X1, TU drops after a certain weight, and you considered a similar thing with backpacks. There's an even simpler tweak - TU is always decreased based on weight carried, perhaps with a hard limit on how much can be carried as well. This of course means you have to boost the base TU of all soldiers, but then you have a simple system and a good tactical tradeoff. You can always bring more equipment at the cost of TU, or you can let your soldiers do more by carrying less.

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

Yeah, as I've mentioned previously this is the biggest thing I want to fix about the inventory system - every soldier has a different STR and therefore a different weight limit, so equipping / changing a loadout is unnecessarily time consuming and fiddly. And soldiers are slowly gaining strength by carrying gear ... which only really grants them the ability to carry still more gear, but still requires a loadout tweak after every mission.

 

You say that like everyone hates it.  I tweak my soldier's gear just about every mission regardless of what inventory system my game is using, be it X-COM, X1, UFO: AfterX, etc.  Because not every mission needs the same loadout.

I happen to LIKE the progression of gaining STR on a soldier to eventually carry more weight.  That helps in determining who gets what as far as gear goes.  And since all the OTHER stats are random, why shouldn't STR be a thing?  I can almost guarantee I can carry more than several people on this forum, I'm a veteran, 6'2, and muscular.  Maybe there's someone on here that's like 5'2 and thin that may have trouble carrying and effectively using something like a 12 gauge or LMG.  That isn't to say that that smaller person couldn't qualify to enlist in the military, or end up joining the Xenonauts.  Our soldiers aren't just super soldier clones, everyone is different.  The STR stat is the best representation of that, since the character models are almost all the same exact size.

What ISN'T fun is gearing up your squad in a certain way, and then never going back to change anything.  At that point, what's the point of an inventory system?  Just auto-equip every soldier with a certain loadout (using a system like X1's pre-set class loadouts, which I actually loved) and never change it again.  Weapons get auto-upgraded with research, armor too.  Set it and forget it.  There's no fun in that.

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On 7/20/2018 at 12:21 PM, endersblade said:

You say that like everyone hates it.  I tweak my soldier's gear just about every mission regardless of what inventory system my game is using, be it X-COM, X1, UFO: AfterX, etc.  Because not every mission needs the same loadout.

I happen to LIKE the progression of gaining STR on a soldier to eventually carry more weight.  That helps in determining who gets what as far as gear goes.  And since all the OTHER stats are random, why shouldn't STR be a thing?  I can almost guarantee I can carry more than several people on this forum, I'm a veteran, 6'2, and muscular.  Maybe there's someone on here that's like 5'2 and thin that may have trouble carrying and effectively using something like a 12 gauge or LMG.  That isn't to say that that smaller person couldn't qualify to enlist in the military, or end up joining the Xenonauts.  Our soldiers aren't just super soldier clones, everyone is different.  The STR stat is the best representation of that, since the character models are almost all the same exact size.

What ISN'T fun is gearing up your squad in a certain way, and then never going back to change anything.  At that point, what's the point of an inventory system?  Just auto-equip every soldier with a certain loadout (using a system like X1's pre-set class loadouts, which I actually loved) and never change it again.  Weapons get auto-upgraded with research, armor too.  Set it and forget it.  There's no fun in that.

as a veteran who has deployed in a mixed unit i can safely say that a thin 62 inch person can handle a M500 or a M249 without trouble, even if they can only qualify the minimum woman's standards of strength. i have seen a couple of women having trouble with the M500 (not the M249) during qualification due to their size, but we are talking thin mid to low 50 inch range (and mid to high 80lbs. range). though that being said their strength via PFA was at the upper end, so the issue was mass (and that of all the military shotguns the M500 has the worst kick).

 

all the veterans that i know that fought in vietnam or korea have the same story about how much gear troops get loaded down with based on their size. the smaller they are the more they are required to carry. there is a lot of false information out there in regards to carrying capacity and weapons handling in regards to what is realistic or not, but in regards to the topic at hand meaningful STR is not nearly as random in the combat troops of the US as people think. the biggest thing that affects carrying capacity and weapons handling is size, and the biggest thing size determines is how easy it is to mount a given roof.

given that it is a game i am sure STR could have a place, but the argument for it is not to make things more realistic.

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Something about how our soldiers don't really fight like they're in a prolonged engagement about holding ground like in most modern warfare and how we're really play the game like we're doing nothing but breach and clear tactics with sniper/rocket support. Because collateral damage is so much more fun than no collateral damage.

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