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Chris

Xenonauts-2: Soldiers

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I remember feeling very disappointed at one point with firaxis XCOM that the options were not there for inventory. Within the mission, there was no inventory screen at all. I thought back to all those instances in the original xcom series when I'd solved problems using tetris-inventory system and was sad that they wouldn't be possible. Yeah, they'd eliminated those irritating "who brought all the space ammo" moments but it felt like a loss because I knew, from experience, what was gone. I'm guessing that it is the same case here. We know what we're losing with a change to the inventory system even if, on the whole, it is a better move all round. I'm sure that there is some level of compromise, but maybe that compromise is not in directly having a familiar grid of squares to store items/weapons, rather, retaining the feeling that you have ultimate choice of what the soldiers take into battle - even if those choices are nerfed to prevent commandos with a shotgun in one hand and a sniper in the other.

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6 hours ago, Ninothree said:

 even if, on the whole, it is a better move all round

In the whole it is not better move =( it`s just... stupid copying of Firaxis`s XCOM in it`s basics... and, well... it is not right way for Xenonauts.

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On 6/21/2018 at 11:46 PM, Severvus said:

And WTF are you doing??? Why do you think, that deleting backpack will make X2 better??? You just killing another good feature of the game (other one is single base instead of multiple ones)!!! In X1 it was normal (and realistic) thet soldier have 2 weapon at same time. For example I usually used Machinegunner with rocket launcher, combine sniper rifles with SMGs, rifles with SMGs or Shotguns, also any soldier carry couple of grenades and some ammo+medpack... and yes there always was choise- you have universal soldier, packed for long\med range and CQB at same time, or heavy firepower and AT weapon, or you give them less gear, but save more AP... with deleting backpack you just make such coise gone, with any tactical flexibility, and complexity of ground combat, and yes you just SIMPLIFYING the game instead of make it more interesting =(

 

On 6/22/2018 at 11:12 PM, Severvus said:

No, no and no =) It`s just about a thing that worked good, and is going to be changed to something, that actually will NOT work good. There is no need for 25 grenades, 3 riot shield and other crazy stuff, that you explaining here, just something, making tactical combat really tactical, and preparations before sending ground team on the mission really important at least in choise, i`ve explained- more AP vs more universal gear on soldier... in new inventory system there is no choise, and only one option for each soldier, and that is not good. And above there was a word about unexpected game experience...new inventory system IS unexpected game experience, and old one is "expected" =)

 

18 hours ago, Severvus said:

In the whole it is not better move =( it`s just... stupid copying of Firaxis`s XCOM in it`s basics... and, well... it is not right way for Xenonauts.

Last time you came to the forum you joined a couple of threads about features you didn't like and just repeated over and over that the ideas were stupid, and after I wouldn't immediately take them out of the game you started insulting me and telling me that I wasn't listening to the community. I hope you've decided to be more constructive this time, and you've actually explained your reasons more this time and posted some suggestions in the ATLAS base thread so perhaps you are. However:

  • Posting in ALL CAPS and using excessive amounts of ???? and !!! makes you sound incredibly angry. Chill out.
  • Although it's fine to call a developer's ideas stupid once in a while, ALL the posts you make are calling my ideas stupid. 
  • Just because a simple version of a system was in XCOM doesn't mean a more complex system can't exist anywhere else. Your reaction is always "this was in XCOM so it's stupid", which is really unhelpful to these discussions given in most cases we've actually changed the system. I mean, should we not include Modular Weapons in Xenonauts just because XCOM2 did it first?
  • Sometimes it's worth trying something new out before deciding that it's terrible.

Sure, the soldier inventory system could be improved. I view what I've suggested as a starting point for a system that can expand and develop as the game moves towards being finished. But you've ONLY discussed the negative parts of it which makes me think you're deliberately ignoring the positive sides of it.

As my original post and Sheepy's post to you points out, this system lets us have more items than in X1 and more interesting ones too. Primary weapons like SMGs can be less effective than normal rifles, but give you a TU boost (Long War did some cool stuff with this iirc). We've got different types of sidearm that go in the secondary slot, like the new automatic machine pistol - it's a good close-range sidearm but it's pointless in X1 because a soldier would just carry a full sized shotgun instead. And because soldiers can only have one secondary item, it means there's a natural limit on powerful items that would be too effective if the player had access to a whole backpack full of them. 

There are arguments that can be made against this. If you don't think the advantages of the system are useful (or they can be reproduced in the X1 system), then explain that. But don't just focus relentlessly on the negatives and never address the positives. 

I'm pretty busy with work these days so I don't have time to explain all this to you again. If you go back to behaving like you did last time you were on these forums, I'm likely to ban you. However if you're willing to read what I said and behave differently, then welcome back to the forums :)

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Posted (edited)

First of all, my english is far from perfect, beacause I'm french, so excuse my french (you're language is so funny)

I find the stress system quite interresting. It's a good way to rotate teams, and not have a single squad of hot shots. It remains me Darkest Dungeon, and it's a good thing.

If I could suggest a cool feature for this, it's a squad manager. Imagine we could assign 8 soldiers on the squad 1, 8 others on the squad 2. After a mission where some soldiers in the squad 1 did gain a lot of stress, we put the squad 2 in the chopper, and we are ready to pursue the game. Of course, it would still be possible to load them one by one in the chopper, but this way it will be easier to rotate soldiers without to have to manage them individualy (have an alternative to manually reassign soldiers can save a lot of repetetive tasks).

Then, with the stress system, why not add a bonding system within soldier ? 2 soldiers fighting together could develop friendship, or love, so they would be more effective on battlefiled if kept close (it is very Fire Emblem-ish, I know ^^). This way, they could have less stress, but much more if their friend or lover is killed.

To finish, I have to talk about the backpack (yeah, it's quite sensitive).

Of course, removing it permit to limit multi role soldiers. Avoiding to have a sniper, that is done sniping, equiping a LMG (because he has so much muscles !!)

But to me, this drawback of the backpack (lol. you're language is still so funny) was visible only in the end game of X-1, and only with players that were grinding like chineses (nothing racist, just a common french expression).

Normally, even if soldier's strength improved during the game, with the increased weight of armors, at the end, my squad didn't have omni role people.

And what I love with the backpack, it's the possibility to customize completly a soldier. Unlike latest XCOM games, it's not the game that creates soldier class, but the player. If I want to create a Medic carrying no weapon and tons of medpacks, I could (like in the movie starring Lame Spiderman). If I wanted to create a Neo (you know, Matrix) carrying only pistols and grenades, I still could. Of course, all those classes where not viable (oh no), but that could leave the choice to player to do mistakes, and comprehend how a sharpshooter should be equiped, and to create his own variante of the class. My sniper was probably different of the others. For exemple, mines didn't own pistols. Only their rifles and ammos. Quite dangerous if taken in close range, but I gave them the best armors, so they could'nt carry more.

Edited by valleo
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First of all... sorry for being too offensive, sometimes it’s hard to control emotions and wright something constructive, especially in other language. So... i’ll try to be less emotional and more constructive next time.

 

As i’ve described my main motivation to counter some of your ideas already in ATLAS thread, I’ll just put some details of it here (as you pointed on it): in whole I don’t like, that your ideas limits in game choices, and XCOM was mentioned mostly as closest example. There such mechanics was good because there wasn’t “XCOM1”, where was something more flexible and wide, but you already have X1 where that flexibility was and was very good and interesting. In general according to this thread topic: modular weapons is good idea because it makes things more complex and add new choice for player, and new inventory system without backpack is bad idea because it makes things simple and deleting choices.

 

And now about inventory... you’ve said that new inventory system will allow you to have more items in the game. I have only one question on that: how old system restrict you to create more items? I really can’t realize that. Autopistol, you’ve mentioned could fit excellent In X1 just because it is much smaller, than shotgun, and weight less, so autopistol in backpack will lead to less TU penalty, than shotgun, and it would be nice tactical choice between pure CQ firepower of shotgun and more action freedom that provide autopistol. 

If you really want make inventory system more complex and interesting, i think, you should look not on XCOM but on old game Brigade E5: New jagged union, IMO there was the best inventory system in tactical games. In short: in basis soldier’s inventory looks like yours- weapon+ couple of “pockets” where he could put mags or grenades, but there are additional slots for backpack, belt, tactical jacket etc, each of that items grat access to additional inventory space for sidearms, secondary weapon, ammo etc. 

in terms of X2 it may look like: 

1.Soldier have slot for primary weapon, slot for armor, slot for item, slot for belt and slot for backpack.

2.Soldier without armor can carry only primary weapon and item. 

3. soldier in armor have access to 1-2 “belt” slots were could be placed ammo/grenades. 

4.soldier with armor and belt have access to all belt slots.

4. if soldier equipped with backpack there will be access to backpack section of inventory where is plenty space.

But everithing has it cost: belt, armor and backpack itself have weight, and already create small TU penalty even if empty. Picking item from belt slots cost some TU, picking something from backpack will take 50-100% of soldier’s TU depending on what item is picked (change weapon is 100% whatever it is).

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Maybe with the modular weapons concept that has been secured, there will be more potential to customise soldier loadouts for each mission without needed to delve into inventory systems. But yeah, as @valleo said, not being able to give a sniper a regular rifle is just painful in XCOM. 

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2 hours ago, Ninothree said:

Maybe with the modular weapons concept that has been secured, there will be more potential to customise soldier loadouts for each mission without needed to delve into inventory systems

I think, that modular weapon will look more like in XCOM\Jagged Alliance (with ability to change scopes, put on silencers, extended mags etc), not like Homefront Revolution where it was possible to transform rifle into LMG or grenade launcher in couple seconds (also such level of modular weapon platform is phantasy more than possibility of alien invasion). And if we take such position... I still think, that it comes too close to XCOM`s rigidly defined classes, with 0 flexibility in loadout.

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And some ilustrations for my suggestion (official screenshots of Brigade E5, released in 2006, and it was first project for it`s devs as i know, so i really cant realize what may restrickt Goldhawk to create something similar and even better, than poor small russian studio, nothing offencive, just curious about):

Here is weapon modules in example of modded AEK-971 rifle, that have installed silencer, grenade launcher, scope and laser sight, there also is options to install bipods, bayonet, or flashlight (first two options blocked by grenade launcher, third by laser sight). 

63.thumb.jpg.1114249184273b0962033e9870e4f0bf.jpg

 

And here you can see inventory system at it`s maximum, as you can see, soldier have slots for helmet, night gloves, armor, belt, tactical jacket, and backpack, andcouple additional bags. And All of it provide access to additional inventory space, in cost of additional weight, and slower soldier`s action. Also different backpacs\belts\jackets have divverent limits to inventory layout, here, for example, backpack (Lower right part of inventoty screen) is big enough to open all "backpack slots", but have many "pockets", where you can put mags, or couple grenades, but it is not fit for mines, also it makes main part of space too small for weapon larger, than pistol or SMG (you can see it on LMG size example on the upper right), also in game is backpacks without such limits at all, or smaller ones etc... I know that creating tons of interface may be difficult task, but... something like this will really make X2 more flexible, complex and interesting.

64.thumb.jpg.10fc856de17a95a2821ac6ca6d42e6fc.jpg

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9 hours ago, Severvus said:

First of all... sorry for being too offensive, sometimes it’s hard to control emotions and wright something constructive, especially in other language. So... i’ll try to be less emotional and more constructive next time.

It's OK - I know it can be hard to get the tone right in your posts when English is not your native language. And I appreciate that you're trying to be more constructive now, so thanks for that. I haven't see Brigade E5 before so I'll take a look through your posts in more detail later tonight.

 

To everyone in this thread - I'm writing a big post on the soldier inventory screen at the moment that we can use a discussion thread. This is obviously something that people feel strongly about so I should explain my reasons and what I want to achieve in more detail. The system I outlined in the original post doesn't have to be the one that goes in the final game if we can think up something better together.

EDIT - here we go: https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19556-xenonauts-2-soldier-inventory-system-discussion/

 

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On 4/23/2018 at 5:56 AM, Chris said:

Soldier skills are primarily gained through training, although they are also developed on the battlefield - using a rifle in battle will grant you progress towards the Rifle Familiarity skill. Soldiers will passively learn a specific skill (chosen by you) as long as you have enough training space at your base, so it is possible to train rookies to be competent at a specific role without them ever leaving the base ... but they won't reach their full potential until they start gaining veterancy in battle.

Aww~ Do I ever love this. It keeps everyone relevant as the game progresses and makes you more likely to continue a game after a squad wipe. As a note, the main reason I abandon after a squad wipe usually isn't the lost experience but the lost equipment. Perhaps it's just because I'm not that great at balancing the geoscape with the battlescape, but do you have any plans to encourage players to go forward and live with failures like that rather than reload an autosave?

On 4/23/2018 at 5:56 AM, Chris said:

SMG might provide the user +10 TU

I'll be honest, I'm not sure why this is necessary. In the original X-Com, TUs were an abstraction for the amount of time a soldier had since many actions had a flat instead of a percentage cost, but in X1, it's much closer to how efficient a soldier is when moving around the battlefield. They don't have more time to do things, but can just get more done in the same time period. They know how to reload on the move better, they understand how to quickly get into position and aim a weapon, they can run just that little bit further over uneven terrain. If you're going to give some weapons additional TUs, perhaps ditching the name and calling it mobility might be more appropriate... Except that creates a situation where if you're carrying an SMG as a secondary, then you'd think that switching to it, running a few more feet, then changing out to a shotgun would work when it clearly doesn't (in the demo anyways). But we're already put in that situation to begin with by adding TUs with percentage changes. Why not just say SMGs cost less TUs to fire?

I suppose I'm just misunderstanding the system. If the SMG is the primary weapon, then it makes sense that a soldier would have more mobility while carrying it. Otherwise, they don't get the bonus. Similarly, heavy armor and heavy weapons could easily reduce a unit's mobility; if you make the system such that only the worst TU/mobility penalty of your loadout counts, then you get the awesome situation of your heavies getting the big armor first since they're already used to moving around less.

On 6/21/2018 at 1:13 AM, ScottyWired said:

Do you mean something like peak performance? I think an excellent use for the stress mechanic would be a soldier being "in the zone", where if the stress level of a soldier is sitting in a certain golden range (not too stressed, but not too calm) they have a boost to their accuracy, bravery, reflexes, and maybe even their XP gain since they're paying more attention. The bravery boost keeps them in the zone fairly well, but if their stress rises too high they lose that bravery boost and become more susceptible to a stress spiral.

While I like this idea in principal, I think that it leads to very finicky interactions with the rec rooms. You want to keep your soldiers as relaxed as possible. Perhaps adding in the ability to pick for each soldier an optimal stress level for the base to aim for would fix the issue here but mechanically, I think it's better just to say that zero stress leads to the bonuses. It makes it so that that a player running their first mission in a long while will start out strong since everyone is all amped to fight some aliens and can lead to soldiers being, "on a roll," if they start well and never make any mistakes. That in itself would lead to cool stories of the one guy who never panicked and saved everyone's asses in that last mission.

On 4/23/2018 at 5:56 AM, Chris said:

if we remove the alien psionic powers that a lot of people complained about.

D:

That.. Noooooooo! I'm half-joking here, but I think the main problem with how psionic powers worked in X1 was how there was pretty much no way to counteract them. You couldn't build the mindshields of XCOM 2 or train up psi-skill for your weaklings in X-Com, you couldn't knock out the guy who was under alien control if they were in power armor and there was no action you could take to undo the mind controlling. Perhaps this is the way you balance psi-powers in this game. They'd be defensive only and require a new building to train. It would make it so that, once your main team is fully skilled at their usual weapons, you wouldn't just start to fill out their roster of skills like it was the strength stat all over again but instead choose to put them in psi-resistance training. Similarly, having an active way to stop mind control could let you keep the mechanic in the game; say that humans have no latent psionic potential but there's a technological equivalent that can be used to talk to other humans. The device is clunky, you won't be able to field it alongside the mindshields but you won't need to have a squad wasting all their kit on that neutralizing backpack if your strongest willed soldier carries this around.

Also, and hope to several gods this sees a return, the 360 degree vision armor makes so much more sense if it requires some level of psychic communication between the suit and the soldier. We can do 360 degree cameras, we do it all the time, but the human brain just isn't equipped to handle that much angular processing by itself. By psionically tapping directly into the sensory processing features of the brain, we can effectively give them full sensory understanding of their surroundings without making them sick. In fact, soldiers often complain about only being able to tell what's ahead of them when they take the suit off. Once this is all over, I'd say these helmets will be all the rage for humanity in the coming years. Provided we can find a way to reduce the exorbitant cost of building them.

On 5/7/2018 at 2:01 PM, Chris said:

I think having random perks / traits makes more sense when you hire soldiers rather than when you level up, but it's a nice idea all the same.

Oh yeah! trickshooters for pistols getting slightly lower TU%s for snapshots, trickreloaders for shotguns who can reload faster and emergency reload for higher TU%, 20/18 vision for someone who can see as far as the aliens can, demolitions experts who do more damage to buildings with explosives, martial artists who stand a 50% of 'dodging' melee attacks, medical training for being able to address mortal wounds in the early game and being able to heal 70% of lost health once the upgrade comes around (okay, maybe this could be trained and some people just start with it), ADHD for having stress actually getting lowered by doing missions (this might be overpowered but kinda realistic for this situation,) autistic for natural resistance to psionic attacks (why does this brain work differently?), sociopathic for soldiers who lose less moral upon friendly death, skitzophrenic for immunity to psionic moral attacks, charismatic soldiers leading to less stress gained for the whole party on missions where they survive, adaptable for soldiers who start out with one rank in every skill, quick learners for +10% experience gain, communal soldiers who get more stress reduction out the rec room, careful for people who crouch at the end every turn and get up at the start without extra TU cost, xenophobic for losing stress on alien kills, thanatophobic for +50% chance to not die on losing all HP! So long as the perks were never something that could be 'trained' (like Fit for plus TU/mobility upon hiring) since those perks are all covered by the current skills/stat system and would just feel out of place to have someone with 70TUs being fit and someone with 100TUs being not.

You could even have random flaws if there were enough perks out there, but I'm not certain how happy that would make people especially if there was no way to overcome them.

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Posted (edited)

In relation to weapons being carried, most terrestrial weapons have a sling, Aliens weapons would be an unknown factor!

To limit a player to only one or two weapons would not give full immersion into the game?

After all with this type of game, we are trying to create THEATER, that's the hook.

Edited by Ruggerman

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The one thing that annoyed me to no end with X1 was how Alien weapons were handled.  Most if not all of the humanoid type aliens had hands similar to humans, but the weapon descriptions were lead to believe they were difficult to handle because they were made for non-human style hands, causing us to just auto-sell them (except the first time found for research) rather than stockpiling them for future use like every other X-COM style game.  At least in XCOM they straight blow up. 

I'm not saying we need to have the ability to use Alien weapons the instant we pick them up off the ground, but until you make the aliens TRULY alien, having no appendages like humans, there isn't any reason we can't use their weapons the way they are.  Hand waving it as 'for gaming/balance purposes' is just bad programming.

I'm of two minds with the rock/paper/scissors idea of weapons and armor.  I like the idea of weapons not becoming completely obsolete and some being more powerful than others against certain alien/armor types.  At least on paper.  In reality what ends up happening is your soldiers are either focusing on one type and running into another, being inefficient at killing them, or being jack-of-all-trades and just being lackluster against all of them.  The worst case being you have one soldier left with a ballistic weapon, which is highly efficient against fleshy types, but you're on a map full of androns.  Good luck with that.

Since we can't currently carry two primary weapons, it isn't really possible to be ready for every situation, which I get is part of the difficulty of the game, but in the end just becomes frustrating when you're constantly bringing rocks to a plasma fight.  But because of how alenium (sp?) works in this game, it isn't feasible to expect us to be able to bring all the weapons we would need.  Some sort of compromise needs to be made, at least for later stages in the game.  Obviously near the beginning we won't be top aces with the knowledge of how to exterminate every single alien or armor type we go up against.  The Hyperwave relay-style building can at least tell us what we're up against, sure, but again it's those outlying situations where the optimal soldiers end up getting splattered against a rock and you end up with the wrong types of weapons on a mission that can really kill the flow and fun of a game.

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Yeah, I think most of those issues can be sorted out with balancing though - or at least I hope so. It's pretty likely that the backpack will be retained but we'll just rework the Strength system so it's less micromanagement heavy for each individual soldier, but there will still be some pressure on soldiers to carry only a single main weapon if they want to move their full range each turn.

However, how much you *need* a second weapon depends a lot on whether, for example, Androns are 50% resistant to Kinetic weapons or 80% resistant. Requiring twice as many hits to down an enemy is rather different to needing five times as many hits; I think it's just a question of tweaking the balance until we find the right number where having the wrong type of weapon is an inconvenience but not catastrophic.

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In a vacuum test area where you have unlimited shots and hit 100% of the time, a kinetic weapon would eventually take down an andron at either 50% or 80%.  However, our weapons have limited shots, we have nowhere near 100% chance to hit most of the time, so the difference between 50% and 80% could be 10+ clips (between all your soldiers) per mission.  Clips might be unlimited at the base like they are in X1 (which I think is PHENOMENAL), but that means we have to bring extra clips with us on an already limited rig to make up for not being able to deck the whole squad out in andron-killing weapons.  Now, I have nothing at all against making aliens more resilient to certain types of damage, I really think that makes the game a whole lot interesting.  But if you go that route, several factors have to be considered to make the system function well, and one of them is:  Do we want to make our soldiers carry 4-5 clips in case of X species, or do we want them to be able to carry another weapon to switch to instead?

As someone who has real life combat experience, I can tell you that carrying a buttload of clips is a pain in the arse.  They get in the way, they make noise, etc.  It's easier to just sling another weapon on your back.  Now real life combat doesn't translate to this game very well, obviously, but the more nimble and free you are, the better you'll dodge incoming fire and have better precision overall.

On a separate note, I wanted to mention something.  In X1, I modified my weapons to function like so:

Kinetic: Normal range, normal damage, normal accuracy

Laser: Long range, normal damage, high accuracy

Plasma: Short range, high damage, normal accuracy

Mag: Long range, high damage, high accuracy

The concept being that Lasers are accurate and have long range, but are basically just minor damage upgrades over Kinetic; Plasma, due to its nature, has a shorter range than both Laser and Kinetic, but does a lot more damage; and Mag, being the culmination of research, does it all.

I did individual weapon types different too:

Pistol: short range, low damage, no penetration, low accuracy

Rifle: normal range, accuracy, damage, low penetration

Shotgun: (upgraded to 8 pellets) each pellet does low damage, but overall has much higher damage than rifle if they all hit, short range and lower accuracy, no penetration

Sniper: Long range, normal damage, high penetration

LMG: Normal range, normal damage, high penetration, low accuracy

I based this off the rounds I assumed they were firing.  7.62MM vs 9MM vs 50 cal, etc.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2c on balance.

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If we know what enemies are coming, then we'll always pack as many weapons of the best type against them as we can, so enemies will always face weapons which they have the worst resistance for. If we don't know what enemies are coming, then we'll pack as many weapons which are as close to general purpose as we can. This was how it worked in the AfterX series, which went down the whole resistances route. You could get by in Aftershock and Afterlight with ballistic weapons because they were general purpose enough that if you kitted them out with weapon upgrades and slammed in the appropriate type of ammo they would do the job, or if you face starghosts which had massive resistance to bullets, you knew beforehand so you kitted everyone out with warp/plasma/laser weapons. As there is (currently?) only one squad in play at any one time, there would never be a reason not to kit the team out with as many of weapon type X to defeat resistance type Y as is practicable. 

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Yeah so one mechanic I thought would be interesting would be that doing an autopsy research (which wouldn't be autocomplete) would then allow you to detect when those aliens are present on a mission. Any alien you've not autopsied is just displayed as "Unknown" before a mission briefing.

Makes autopsies gameplay relevant and gives the player some kind of advance warning of what type of enemy they might be facing, so they can pack the right weapons.

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Maybe each subsequent autopsy could just add probability of correct forecast so the system wouldn't be so binary and predictable. Even with couple of sebillian autopsies done there could still be a surprise androns in the ufo?

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Well it'd likely be split out by class as well as race, so studying one Sebillian doesn't mean that all Sebillians are revealed for the rest of the game - so you'd encounter unknown aliens fairly frequently (although in most cases you could make an educated guess as to what they are based on the rest of the crew).

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On 7/10/2018 at 2:50 AM, Chris said:

Yeah so one mechanic I thought would be interesting would be that doing an autopsy research (which wouldn't be autocomplete) would then allow you to detect when those aliens are present on a mission. Any alien you've not autopsied is just displayed as "Unknown" before a mission briefing.

Makes autopsies gameplay relevant and gives the player some kind of advance warning of what type of enemy they might be facing, so they can pack the right weapons.

That would be nice.  I really hated in X1 how you really only needed to capture one alien once, and then one each of the alien officers, and that capturing more did nothing else.  I liked in the originals that capturing specific ranks of aliens gave us fluff research.  Granted it sounds like the current plan for the game doesn't allow us enough time to even bother with that stuff, much less complete the entire rest of the tree, but it at least gave us a reason to go out and capture aliens.

You could even do the same thing for UFOs that you do for Aliens - Research, for example, a Sebellian Tech, and you learn about a random UFO type (that can also be researched by just seeing it, the same way it worked in X1), and also give you an increase in damage or chance to hit or even something more advanced, like being able to shoot it down but leave more vital systems undamaged.  This of course would require you to create said ranks among the aliens.  Squad leader types could give us info, just fluff research I guess, about the various alien mission types, which I believe X1 just gave us after researching something...?  I remember seeing a few of them anyway, can't recall how they show up.

 

 

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XCOM EU/EW gave you a reason to continue live captures: it prevented their weapons from self destructing. By taking advantage of that you could stock up on plasma rifle weapons without having to build them yourself. By the time Valen finished researching how to pull the trigger, you could already have enough to equip a squad. In EW, you could rush light plasmas if the 'Friends in Low Places' spawned a muton.

Capturing different ranks is fun, but as endersblade points out, it requires a long game to make the most of. However, even without self destructing alien equipment or a span of rank-based interrogations, captures could be configured to net more loot or resource, thus giving a motivation to keep bringing em back alive.

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If interrogating live aliens gives you plot progression in the form of mission leads, location of alien bases and such, then it's not just about R & D, but more reflective of why we capture enemies in real life conflicts

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Posted (edited)

One thing that bugs me on the earlier games are the initial recruits stats. Those new recruits could not hit the side of a barn and panic on the first sight of blood! We're not talking about raw recruits in this game. We're talking about the elite of the elites who draw their member from the best special forces from around the world (at least according to the games overview).  

I have no military training but a fair amount of shooting and  live paintball war games experience and  I can consistently hit a stationary target at over 150 yards with a semi-auto assault rifle and in a tactical pistol range with obstacle and popup targets and I can hit pretty well within 10 yards (not always on the X but at least on target). I would expect better from the world's elite.

As to the need of a second weapon. A close range weapon like a pistol or SMG is pretty much standard issue secondary for any military that might operate in an urban/indoor environment nowadays as they are a lot more flexible in close quarter/confined area.

I posted part of this on the Inventory thread but it maybe more relevant to this thread:

All basic recruits should have a minimum strength that would allow them to carry initial primary/secondary weapons and a default loadout of accessories (Ammo, grenades, medkit).  this should include Heavy weapons like heavy machine guns and rocket launchers. Weapons developed during the course of the game may have higher requirements that only not everyone will be able to use. The amount of ammo carried by the troops are also highly unrealistic in the older games. The standard loadout to today's infantry is as follows:

In addition to body armor, communication gear and varies scopes/vision enhancement gears. Your basic combat ammo loadout is 210 round for primary weapon (clip in weapon plus 6x30 clips in varies ready pouch on the uniform for quick access.  A machine gunner will carry 600 rounds of ammo and usually have the assistant gunner carry another 300 in addition to their basic load plus up to 4 grenade/flare of varies type based on mission requirements. Then you usually carry more in your backpack along with food, water, first aid, spare batteries for a 3 days patrol. Since I don't see mission lasting more than a day in game. I think Firaxis had the right idea of having unlimited ammo.

Edited by Wiz33

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I would say take the old system with the chances in your Video to the new Game. The differences would be in the modular systems of Combat armor and Weapons. That´s the Easiest way. But if there is something better than take that.

Btw. I like the option to make a self made soldier. There will be certainly 4.000 or some more new Soldiers in the game. I already have build up mine.

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7 hours ago, Alienkiller said:

I would say take the old system with the chances in your Video to the new Game. The differences would be in the modular systems of Combat armor and Weapons. That´s the Easiest way. But if there is something better than take that.

Btw. I like the option to make a self made soldier. There will be certainly 4.000 or some more new Soldiers in the game. I already have build up mine.

I'm actually disappointed with the facial options in the Portrait Generator.  No love for the goatee without the 'stache apparently.  Just the soul patch.

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