Influencing Civilians

[ChAnKoEr]

Since Chris likely has an idea set for AI mechanics, this is unlikely to be added to the game. However, I will put this idea out anyways incase the plans are not finalized, or for a future mod.

Cilivians under an alien attack would most likely listen to the people trying to save them. Therefore, I think civilians should be under the control of the player as well. Civilians in the sight range of a Xenonaut unit should be able to be given commands in the same way as a soldier. They would also have Health, AP, and Moral. Moral would go up when around friendly units, slowly go down when left alone, and quickly drop when an alien is in the civilians sight. Civilians could be commanded to go to a certain location, or to stay put. When a civilian panics, they could do one of two things. They could either freeze or run in a completely different path. If a civilians Moral reaches 0, they would no longer be influencable by the Xenonauts

[Corporal Hicks]

Also, they should improve civilians AI. Come on, it's so silly when they just run around in circles or towards the aliens... I would never run to the arms of a sebilian.

[ChAnKoEr]

They will. This is something on top of the AI though

[Gauddlike]

How do they know who you are?

Do any of your troops speak the same language as those specific civilians?

Would all civilians run towards the strange looking men with odd looking equipment?

How would a Russian civilian react if they were getting shot at by unseen enemies then heard an American soldier yelling at him to come closer?

Would an armed redneck take orders from a "commie" for that matter?

[Gorzahg]

I'll influence them, with my STUN BATON!

[Gorlom]

I'll influence them, with my STUN BATON!

Just as long as you don't use it as an anal probe.

[Damonjay]

The Beauty of Xenonauts is that they are an international Corporation.

You may find you have Soldiers which Come from the country that you are defending.

Those soldiers could be used to tell civilians to take cover. (and who knows they could also tell you where the position of a hiding alien is)

i was thinking while playing that it would be good to get temporary control of the soldiers that you find at the location

[Gorlom]

The Beauty of Xenonauts is that they are an international Corporation.

You may find you have Soldiers which Come from the country that you are defending.

Those soldiers could be used to tell civilians to take cover. (and who knows they could also tell you where the position of a hiding alien is)

i was thinking while playing that it would be good to get temporary control of the soldiers that you find at the location

That would require the game to keep track of soldiers nationality as well as the location of the crashsite/terror mission for more then display purposes. And even then only the soldier with the matching nationality would be able to interact with the civvies.

What would be the point of haveing local forces if you gain control over them anyway? Why would you gain contol over them? Do you hack into their com frequency or something, or how do you give them orders?

[Damonjay]

The point of having the Local Forces on your side would be to increase your numbers. - Sure they may be terrible units but i am sure if people are having a hard time completing a mission they wouldn't mind an extra gun.

Gaining Control over the local forces would require some form of interaction. - soldiers could say yes or no

and to keep control over them it could require line of sight.

and yes i realise it wouldn't be as simple as I am suggesting.

its just an idea

Edit: The main reason i suggest the Civilians give information is that it would mean that they could have a direct effect on a battle. rather then them not really having a priority to the player

Edited May 16, 2012 by Damonjay

[Gauddlike]

They do have a priority.

They are the people you are supposed to be protecting.

The whole point of the game is to protect the world and its population.

That is reflected in the hit you take to your reputation with a country if you let its people die when you could have protected them.

I would prefer the civilian AI to react better (which it will once it is finished) and not have to bother giving them orders or having to worry about commanding them.

I think the last time this topic came up I suggested the morale of the civilian influenced their action and that being within range of a friendly trooper would increase their morale.

What the exact effects are depend of course.

They could either run for friendly territory, stay in cover or just run away and try to hide from everyone I guess.

[thothkins]

I would never run to the arms of a sebilian.

even a cute one?

[Gauddlike]

[Stromko]

I don't like how currently, civilian deaths effect morale for your soldiers. This would be fine, except that they then panic, freeze up, or flee like ninnies. I can understand your soldiers feeling bad about civilian deaths, I could see them needing therapy after this is all over, but why panic? The civilians are depending on your soldiers to save them, and crouching around the Chinook crapping themselves isn't helping. What the hell are they trained for if not to respond to this kind of situation, and just what are they so scared of?

My point is, the death of civilians does not effect your soldiers' chance of survival. It actually improves their survivability in several key ways since now they know approximately where the enemy is, and it's apparent that said alien is not firing at the soldier in question or lying in wait for them. If you notice a dead civilian and a bunch of fresh scorch marks, it's actually much safer to go around that blind corner since the alien isn't ready to ambush you and you know what direction the shots would come from.

tl;dr: Civilian deaths shouldn't panic a bunch of my soldiers every time I respond to a terror mission. I can't do anything about their deaths on my first turn, so it essentially takes away control of my units through no fault of my own.

[Gorlom]

I don't agree that it shouldn't affect at all. but it might be worth balanceinng a bit.

[Gauddlike]

I think the panic mechanism in general could do with revision.

I think the system is a little too harsh.

That is probably down to the early stage though, I imagine it will get more refined.

[stx]

I also agree. Civilian deaths in my opinion should not influence (at least not much) Xenonauts soldiers.

These soldiers are hardened veterans, they know what they are fighting against.

The number of dead civilians should only influence the final score of the battle and the money outcome, if any.

I believe this aspect needs a little more balancing before the game goes RTM.

[thothkins]

If the aliens have landed, decapitated the civilians and put their heads on sticks in front of the descending Chinook. An extreme example, and not one in the game 9and why not?), but just to illustrate that such acts would surely affect the arriving soldiers.

So, i think a growing body count should have some sort of influence on proceedings. I think the soldier panic is a slightly abstract account of the aliens overwhelming the local population (of which there would be many more of if depicted in say a normal city block), adn the soldiers inability to stem the relentless tide. In the face of global invasion to boot.

[Targe]

Civilians should not run randomly, especially into smoke and fire which is my biggest casualty losses in the Alpha.

They should move in general towards the chinook, although not in the robotic lock-step way they did in the original game.

The soldiers (and there should be police too on the ground in all cities) should move towards the aliens and engage.

The civilians of course should be far more susceptible to panic, same with the cops, and the soldiers should be equivalent to the x-com rookie privates.

[Gauddlike]

There is a post somewhere describing how the civilian AI should work when it is finished.

They are supposed to run from both aliens and armed troops, although whether to the same degree I don't know.

They should also take advantage of cover when it is available as well.

The problem with giving them a definite goal, like the Chinook, comes when the path is not clear.

[Kimberly]

Personally, I want the civilians to respond to my relationship status with the nation I'm in. If the Xenonauts are dearly beloved with the Europeans, surely the Europeans shouldn't run in terror when they see me? Instead, they should huddle around the Chinook or stay near the Xenonauts. (Yes, this will be annoying. Feel free to shoot them.) On the other hand, they should run away from you if you start shooting civilians. Running away from aliens or the spacecraft is a given. Perhaps in the absence of any particular influences, they could group up and find a corner to huddle in?

[RotGtIE]

I wouldn't care if civvies ran lovingly into the arms of chryssalids. All I want is for them to stop moving DIRECTLY BETWEEN ONE OF MY OPERATIVES AND AN ALIEN, and to stop RUNNING THROUGH FIRE AND DYING AND CAUSING THE GAME TO HANG.

The number of times a civilian has put themselves in the line of fire has reached a point where I am beginning to suspect them of doing it deliberately - they might be hippies trying to stop me from killing aliens by martyring themselves in the crossfire. Damn hippies.

[Gorlom]

I wouldn't care if civvies ran lovingly into the arms of chryssalids. All I want is for them to stop moving DIRECTLY BETWEEN ONE OF MY OPERATIVES AND AN ALIEN, and to stop RUNNING THROUGH FIRE AND DYING AND CAUSING THE GAME TO HANG.

The number of times a civilian has put themselves in the line of fire has reached a point where I am beginning to suspect them of doing it deliberately - they might be hippies trying to stop me from killing aliens by martyring themselves in the crossfire. Damn hippies.

Comments like this makes me secretly hope civvies stay as they are through to release.

[Sunshard]

I'm probably going to stalk most of RotGtIE's posts now. The humour in their writing makes me happy!

[s300pmu1]

The obvious and classic model for civilians could be taken from SWAT3 game.

Basically, the following states for a civilian:

1. Panic - the good old "running in circles regardless of environment"

2. Flee whatever you see (flees the closest unit no matter whether friendly and foe)

3. Freeze

4. Normal behavior (flee from aliens, do not flee from friendlies, flee if shooting ensues)

4. Secure (cuffed by the officer in SWAT3) - in Xenonauts, the logical solution would be for the PC to spend a couple of TUs directing the civilian to the dropship.

Very realistic, particularly if:

- civilians not in panic state tend to go to the dropship if the have it in their LOS, to go in the direction of PCs if the have them in their LOS

- civilians in panic state have a 50/50 chance to be directed to the dropship or to ignore player's direction, in which case the only way to protect them is to stun them (or cuff them - a new cool item in the inventory - cuffs for immobilizing panicking civilians)

PS

Race and nation have NO bearing whatsoever on behavior of civs in respect to the PCs.

Remember, player chars are members of a SUPRANATIONAL organisation created to repel an all-out ALIEN INVASION.

People in ALL countries including SU and USA watch the news and know who's good and who's bad. Directing to the dropship can be done by hand signals, you know )

[Gauddlike]

Assuming that this organisation is on the news and common knowledge.

Quite a lot of the globe has little or no access to electricity, never mind a 24 hour news channel.