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Night Vision Equipment


Sathra

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For reference. Its a reasonably common question.

Are there plans to incorporate night vision equipment for aliens and terran operatives? In X-Com, the only methods for combating darkness were flares or lighting areas on fire with incendiary weapons. Will there be night vision optics available for soldiers as part of their loadout, or part of an armor set?

What about different types of optics, like thermal imaging or infrared optics? Will equipment like this be implemented as terran, researchable, or alien technology?

Chris wrote:

I think we'll just use the X-Com system for night fighting, for simplicity's sake. Some armour will have integrated sensors etc, but this will just be reflected in an increased visual range rather than special effects I think.

Its more to do with how having night-sight enhancers reducing alot of the tension of night combat, which is mostly due to not being able to see a damn thing. Cover gives your troops a much better chance to survive the volleys of plasma out of the darkness too.

Flares and flashlights were discussed, but I'm not sure which one Chris decided on (maybe both). I like the idea of flashlights myself, mostly for the atmosphere. Make them standard issue on most weapons and such, but have a result of a much narrower vision cone than during the day (bit wider than the actual light beam though).

Heat sensors I could see keeping night missions tense, particularly on terror missions. If you only got to see that heat signatures were coming from somewhere but not what the terrain looked like and you had no idea whether what you were looking at was an alien, a civilian or friendly local armed forces member, or just a stovepipe or a loose fire, it would give the player just enough information to get nervous but not enough to be able to say with full confidence "Yeah, I know what that is."

Hell, that's pretty much alien-horror-movie-stock-concept right there. Scary alien movies always have a what's-that-on-the-thermal-imaging scene. I'm pretty sure it's a legal requirement.

Heat sensor would be a great replacement for the motion scanner from XCOM games, and I really like the fact that it could display false readings from background objects.

Also as alien ships are made from materials built to resist the heat of entry through the atmosphere, it is also fair to say that the Heat Sensor would be unable to view through its hull, making the first few steps into an alien ship as tense as ever.

I see no reason why night vision equipment should remove the tension of night missions. Poor implementation of features so as to cause gameplay imbalance is what causes problems. Examples of this would be giving players the mind control ability in X-Com which made all subsequent missions a cakewalk. Blaster launchers were also problematic. Fortunately Xenonauts will have neither.

Fighting at night is intense because having no light makes the battles much more dangerous. Since humans can't see without light and aliens apparently can (or use tech to help) running night missions is likely to be very challenging. However, if night environments were 100% dark it would be impossible to win them so players would be forced to wait until daylight to run missions. Luckily there are many devices that humans can use to help even the odds somewhat.

1. Most night environments are not completely void of light: Having no light whatsoever would reduce visibility to 0 feet, Fortunately things like moonlight and street lamps can shed some light to some ability to see. This would not help on an overcast day in the wilderness though. At best vision would still be severely reduced.

2. Flares: For those missions where not even the moon is shining these would be extremely useful for temporarily lighting the battlefield to achieve near-daylight visibility in a localized area. As the player progresses into the game new technologies could result in better flares that last longer and illuminate a larger radius. Using flares near flammable objects could potentially result in fires. Prudence in deployment would be advisable.

3. Fire: igniting fires can illuminate the night air pretty effectively and it's always great fun to do so. The downsides of such pyromaniac tactics are the complete lack of control the player has over how the fire might spread.

4. Flashlights: These are invaluable for room-clearing at night or even in the day for windowless interiors. For obvious reasons, unlit interiors tend to be even darker than the outdoors. Using flares and fire indoors may not always be viable options so flashlights come to the rescue here.

5. Night vision goggles: Trying to fight in the dark against a team of aliens that has unimpaired vision is suicidal. The good news is that first generation night vision technology has been developed and soldiers equipped with such gear aren't totally blind on those overcast nights in the country. The bad news? First generation NV gear has pretty fuzzy resolution and visibility isn't nearly as effective as good old daylight (or even flares). Still, it's better to have impaired vision up to 100 yards than it is to be blind up to 20 feet. Oh yes, hopefully the soldiers are prepared to deal with light overload. That old NV technology was prone to overload if exposed to intense and proximate light sources. Flares, nearby fires and the old tactical-flashlight-in-the-eyes-trick could cause temporary blindness for an NV equipped soldier.

All of the above could potentially make for fun gameplay but I understand that there may not be enough time budgeted in the scripting department to add such features - especially as there is no dynamic lighting. I just don't buy the idea that adding features like night vision gear will automatically make night missions lack tension and suspense.

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Part 2

About the NV goggles and how bad first-gen were. If they aren't as good as normal daylight vision, why bother even coding them in? Just have vision range at night reduced and have NV 'standard-issue' (i.e. don't need to equip them). Saves alot of time modelling new items and view-modes too.

Although, it would be a bit questionable how they aren't all half-blind most of the time in night missions with standard-issue NV what with all the explosions, plasma fire flashes and whatnot though.

The problem with most NV equipment is the loss of subtle visual contrasts and all peripheral vision. It's better than not being able to see anything at all, and worse than daylight. The flare effect of sudden light sources is also a detriment. I don't see a problem with just saying that they have NV automatically, or if the team want to make more of it, there's room there to.

Tactical flashlights are typically used far more for the light-in-the-eyes trick than illumination, especially in room-clearing. Walking down a dark street with a torch lit simply marks you out as a target for someone with their night vision adapted (just eyes, not NV). Carrying a light source prevents your own eyes from adapting to the night, and someone in light cannot see anything in shadow easily. The reverse is not true. If you have to be using a light at night, it'd be shifted into the red wavelength anyway to preserve the night adaptation.

I was also wondering about vehicles since I noticed the hunter cars have lights on them. Do those headlights actually generate or project light forward of the car during night missions?

Trailing a bit off the topic now, but I also noticed smoke launchers on the hunter cars, too. Can those be used?

I don't think the Hunter is going to be used anymore. There was something wrong with it.

I brought up the flashlights more for the look than any RL military sensibility.

I certainly hope that there will be something other than flares to aid in night battles. Many of the ideas I've seen are pretty good here. Being limited to tossing flares like grenades was, I think, one weakness in the original X-COM games. There needed to be more options for such a technologically advanced team. Even if those options had some drawbacks to them (which I'd advise to prevent making things too easy) it would be better than relying on only a very crude system of lighting.
I really enjoyed flares in X-Com. Why it seems unrealistic to rely solely on them considering what technology would realistically be available, having to use flares was a lot of fun imo. Since they are a limited and finite source of light you had to be really careful where you throw them and when. They allowed you to deal with the darkness to an extent while still keeping, and even adding to, the tension of night battles.

Some kind of omni directional, inexhaustible, night vision enhancing system would ruin that imo.

I wouldn't be opposed to headlights on vehicles though since those are very limited too.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't mind the flares in themselves, but I did mind that it was the only way short of setting fire to everything to actually see at night. And as Akavit stated, they definitely weren't limited unless you were so dirt poor that you couldn't spend a few dollars on them. Flares are about as numerous as grenades when I play, and I typically have at least three grenades per man, if not more.

Point two, if we're into discussing ruining the tension in night battles. What ruins it more than flares that stay lit no matter how long they are sitting around? Despite the clunky method of lighting in X-COM, it was actually overpowered in a way once you got used to it. Overpowered, but annoying to use at the same time. I'd actually suggest making flares only light up an area for a certain duration, and then burn out or something. Then you can add in other methods of night fighting - methods that have their own drawbacks as well.

Limited due to the item limit.

Night missions weren't that hard at all really. Maybe 2 flares or so per trooper and you could light up the whole map. Never used incendiaries much either.

Making flares 'burn out' could be useful I guess, but wouldn't have much effect overall without an item limit. Even if you couldn't pick them and and re-throw.

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Part 3

I hated the 80 item limit. Made it a nightmare to fully kit out a squad when you had an avenger with 16+ troopers on it! Ended up giving half of them laser rifles just to get a few flares on for night missions.

The Xenonauts system where the troopers are equipped in the base and that's what they carry into action is far better and far more realistic.

I think the 80 item limit was a bug due to how older computer programming worked or something along that line. The open source remake of X-Com removed that. I never knew about the limit myself though as laser rifles (in addition to autocannons) were my weapon of choice for the entire game and I always used one tank. Having unlimited ammo allowed me to set up fire teams that did nothing but perforate entire buildings with several turns of firing.

I've got an idea on how night vision could be implemented that would keep the gameplay simple. Chris mentioned the possibility of setting up armors to simply increase sight ranges. If the game were also to adopt the idea suggested by some players earlier in this thread night vision gear could be considered standard equipment for soldiers without armor as well. This would mean that soldiers without armor that had integral night vision would still have the default gear but those with the armor would get the improved stuff.

The way NV gear would actually be used is via a simple toggle like the crouch button. Activating it and deactivating it would cost a few AP. When active soldiers would see further but have a smaller field of view. Armors with improved in-built NV systems could either offer longer range of vision or a wider cone of view.

One of the frustrating things about trying to generate light by fire in the original X-Com was that there was actually a limit to how many fires you could have on a map at once. Light up enough, and you would find that you could no longer start more fires due to hitting the cap. You could fire an incendiary rocket into a hay-filled barn or wheat field and get nothing. So if you wanted any real control over lighting up the map at all, you had to stick with flares. Being the only real option, it was pretty restrictive. Doable and by no means difficult, but not having any other option made it a drudgery.
I never knew about an item limit for missions until now and I've played both X-COM and TFTD. I think this is because of a tendency I have to only use six or less soldiers in a mission, so I never have to put much equipment on the ship. Because of this, equipping enough flares to make the map look like daylight is never a problem for me, hence my use of that strategy alone for light. Better (or more) night fighting options will help relieve some of the monotony of using the same tactic over and over again. I think it will also add more replay incentives to a game that's already fun to go through many times.
The heat vision thing is a great idea. Another awesome thing that could come along with that is "cold blooded" alien races that don't show up at all - making it a notch scarier.
well if night vision equipment is not available players will run day missions only..... is going to affect gameplay, and waste all night mission light effects, big mistake, it is included in ufo AI and it works just fine, you can even see where aliens are behind walls.

i hated losing soldiers in x-com because some alien was shooting and i coulndt see/ target back,

Speak for yourself. And oftentimes it's not a matter of choice unless you want to fly your dropship in circles until the sun comes up.
Very true. From what Chris has revealed there's a good chance of there being multiple mission sites active at once.
night time is only 8 hours, if we already cant see as much as the aliens in daytime, night time without googles will be unwanted dangerous...... most players will skip it, i can guarantee you that, all the lighting effects/mood wasted/
I guarantee you that I won't skip it. And most others probably won't either just like they didn't in X-Com. Also once you arrive at the mission site you have to deal with the time of day that is presently in effect, there's no "time skip" button. Provided the geoscape shows the time of day like sunlight passing over it you can try to time your arrival so it's daytime but I imagine dealing with this every time is much more of a chore than any potential night time frustration.

And finally we don't even know how night missions will work or if aliens will have superior night vision so...

I actually did skip night missions in the early months of X-Com until I found out how much fun it was to burn down entire maps with autocannons shooting incendiary rounds. Crashed UFO's stuck around for a long enough time that there never was a reason to rush to the mission site and going to a night mission was an unnecessary risk. I just waited to launch the transports until I could be certain they would arrive in the day.

Later night missions were never an issue since improved gear made soldiers better than aliens in terms of protection and firepower.

It all has to do with giving players the option.

Having night vision equipment and being able to see just as well at night as day would, personally, ruin a lot of the feel of night combat. It'd be just as much a waste as everyone skipping night battles since there's no functional difference between day and night.

Its doubtful that players who do want hard night missions would not use the goggles too, mostly since they're there. And what else would you put in that slot.

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Part 4

that is my point ( to Chris) i want to use night vision equipment and enjoy the night effects.... , without going into suicide missions.

PS..... auto cannons were obsolete from the outset in x-com original, i played that game thousands of hours and it was totally unbalanced, it missed a lot and it needed 2 shots or more for a lot of aliens, it was TU too expensive as well., definetely a no-no.

Autocannons were the best thing a team could have in a night mission and I used them all the way to the end of the game once I discovered their unique ability. Rather than run about tossing flares everywhere it was far easier to set fields aflame with a dozen rounds of autocannon fire right at the start. The lack of accuracy was a nice bonus since it caused the shots to spray further and thus spread out the light-generating fire. To finish the process the soldiers with flares could toss them into any remaining shadows. For precise long range fire placement I'd use incendiary rockets.

Sometimes it was simpler to kill aliens by raining damage all across the map than by hunting them down.

Sorry to dredge up an old post...

Flares in the original XCOM were, IMHO, the most annoyingly stupid part of the game. I'm running around with freaking plasma rifles, accompanied by flying saucer UAVs and yet I've got to toss little light grenades around in order to see anything at night.

Apart from the howlingly unrealism of that scenario, 1) flares took up valuable space, 2) it cost AP to make them ready to use, 3) it took more AP to throw them.

There are a lot of good suggestions already here and none of them would necessarily kill

the mood or overpower the player:

NV goggles -- screen turns monochrome, contrast is reduced, visual range increased in direction you're facing, field of vision limited by direction you're facing...sounds pretty spooky.

Flashlights on weapons -- visual range increased in direction you're facing, field of vision limited by direction you're facing, possible eye-flash effect to spot distant creatures while not revealing their true nature. Again, sounds spooky, just like in movies where they're running around in the dark with flashlights

Lights on vehicles -- narrow beams of illumination but also makes the vehicle a better target. This adds situational value to low-tech vehicles...I never used vehicles in the original until I got flying ones with plasma weapons. The rest were useless (except blaster bomb vehicles when your entire squad had been taken over with psyonics).

Whatever, as long as the basic problem is fixed (requiring use of unrealistically primitive tech, equipment space hogging, costly to use in terms of AP) without decreasing the spook factor.

NIght vission sound realy good, a green alpha layer + some nice effect animations could realy raise up the felling of night missions, ofc the night vission scould not be as default but more somting that you can buy , a night vission goggles or somting.
mrsisk wrote:

Flares in the original XCOM were, IMHO, the most annoyingly stupid part of the game. I'm running around with freaking plasma rifles, accompanied by flying saucer UAVs and yet I've got to toss little light grenades around in order to see anything at night.

I always thought that this was one of the single best features of X-Com.

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I haven't gone over all this but I do feel that something to assist with night vision, beyond just flares is a necessity. Over in http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php?23-Training-Summary

WE have

Active Training Courses

Night Ops Restriction: light armour only (it's a scout ability)

My all-time favourite trait / ability in JA.

Soldier can see further in darkness (whether at night or in unlit structures) and / or is visible to the aliens at 1 less square.

Effectively this gives the (trained) soldiers sight range equal to aliens.

Even with that, night operations are always more deadly because of everyone's shorter sight range and the resulting greater accuracy... for the aliens.

Having a "Night Ops" training course would take a bit of sting out of this while "paying" with a higher job complexity.

If the ability proves to be "very good", increase it's JC rating.

I loved the night missions in X-COM. This would be the icing on the cake.

Something like that might be enough, but otherwise some sort of night-vision gear would be good

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In X-Com and TFTD I always skipped night missions if I could. It's very rare you are forced into a nighttime mission. The aliens have a big advantage at night so I'll wait for sunrise thanks!

If Xenonauts does things differently, maybe landing sites have shorter life spans or they are more frequent meaning you are forced to squeeze more missions into a smaller slot of time, then I think night equipment of any sort other than flares is needed. Well either way I think its needed.

Heat sensors are by far my favourite suggestion so far. However I fear they would become too powerful with the ability to see through walls. In daylight I'd still be using them! There are some ways you could limit it's power like only showing heat signatures at a short range but then that defeats the point of taking them at night. Or perhaps only showing heat 3 tiles past a wall?

I guess nightvision is actually the best option for an addition. It's simple and does what it says on the tin.

At the VERY least I think the landing craft should have lights fit on it that point out in the direction of the doors. So one on either side and one or two at the main doors. These project outwards somewhat giving a slight cone of light protruding in three directions from the ship. They are automatically on at night and not visible during daylight. Not only would it look cool but it would also help the annoying moments when you step out of your ship and are mown down by an alien you have no chance of seeing.

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At the VERY least I think the landing craft should have lights fit on it that point out in the direction of the doors. So one on either side and one or two at the main doors. These project outwards somewhat giving a slight cone of light protruding in three directions from the ship. They are automatically on at night and not visible during daylight. Not only would it look cool but it would also help the annoying moments when you step out of your ship and are mown down by an alien you have no chance of seeing.

Now this idea I like, it always stuck me as a bit silly that there was nothing like this. At the least you'd expect the interior lights would illuminate an area immediately outside. But it makes sense that there would be external lights that would give some greater area of illumination around the Chinook. I would think to maintain a certain balance and a reasonable level of uncertainty and risk that only having a cone of light directly onto the direct debarkation zone would be ok. So as Tweaked says, maybe 2 main lights illuminating the back, and only 1 light at each side exit, but at a lesser level of illumination

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There's an exclusion zone around the ship that the aliens won't spawn in. Having spotlights lighting up the area around the ship won't actually be that helpful as a result.

Would look nice and cinematic though.

Missions will be more frequent than in X-com. Alien ships (either singly or in 'wings') come in waves with breaks in between.

But we'd have to actually be able to try night missions with flares before saying that you need to add something else.

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Training could give a bonus to night vision but we don't know if "training" will even be structured in a way to make such a thing possible.

If it's an item of sorts then the implementation would be rather limited.

There is no face slot like in JA.

As I suggested here, it could be tied to suits of armour.

Lighter and more mobile (jumping?) "scout suits" with better optics/electronics vs heavier assault suits.

That would deal with the issue of "best armour is best" by giving more than one armour suit a role on the battlefield.

In X-Com, there is no reason whatsoever to use anything but the flying power armour. That's terrible game design.

In XCOMA they offered a little choice by tieing the flying ability to the MarSec chestpiece. Then the player had to decide if the added mobility was worth the lower armour values.

If it's just a training course (that every soldier ends up going through...), then there is no noticeable long-term difference to all soldiers having better nicht vision to begin with.

Tieing this to the armours would keep the choice in play throughout the entire game.

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Yeah, that was my view on this topic.

Higher tech armours boost vision range at night. Basically from what Chris said.

I think we'll just use the X-Com system for night fighting, for simplicity's sake. Some armour will have integrated sensors etc, but this will just be reflected in an increased visual range rather than special effects I think.

Add flares, some atmospheric lighting from map objects and flashlights/headlights (maybe) and we're good.

Don't really see the point of adding NV goggles, since you'd equip them all the time anyways. If you really want to even up the battlefield you could mod the values yourself.

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NV goggles may be a "realistic" option but they have no gameplay value.

IF nighttime THEN equip everyone with NV gear.

Wow. How nice of the game game to force such a menial chore on me!

Tieing this to "scout suits", which have "better sensors" both day and night, is a strategical decision about your team composition.

They can have fancier stuff like motion detectors, too.

That both fits the scope of the game and forces the player to choose between armour value and detection capabilities.

JA went with the goggles but that game was waaaay on the side of mercenary micromanagement.

It didn't add any choice or gameplay value, either, but at least it fit the scope of the game.

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The landing lights of the transport could illuminate the exclusion zone. Combine the two. Have the exclusion zone be the starting visible area both day and night, so long as it isn't too large (I'm assuming it wouldn't be) and it both allows you to plan your initial debarkation, and also ups the tension by knowing the dark bits of the map ARE where the aliens have spawned.

I agree that having NV as an item in game doesn't make much sense. The only reason for drawing attention towards something like that is if there are mechanics for it. Otherwise it's a chore that could be automated for streamlining, it's a night mission, they have NV. If NV was going to be a player action, there has to be a reason for it to be; reasons why you wouldn't take it, flare blindness or suchlike. Otherwise we could just give them eyepatches so that one eye retains dark vision.

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