Drones

[ChAnKoEr]

Here's the conversation of the idea of drones talked about in another thread:

Instead of vehicles I would prefer little "robot cars", something with a camera on top of them, only to explore the map. They would be remote controle and really fragile, one shot and boom! It's gone

Remote drones with no fire capability at all - at least until the enemy drones are captured.

drones would be nice... at least as an option following capturing a few of the enemies. UAVs in the real world were in operation in various forms for decades before the setting period, so it's not an impossible leap of faith.

People are already complaining that vehicles don't gain experience or have enough upgrades.

I don't think adding drones in at this point would help matters.

With a drone it removes any need to bother about experience. It won't get any as it's a drone.

(unless you research alien AI...must...not...derail...own...post...again...)

so it's an alternative option to vehicles altogether (and removes pesky questions like who's driving it)

(and replaces them with who's controlling the drone - the pilots are of course!...must...not..derail...)

upgrades to your drones are delivered as a consequence of coming across various mechanical foes throughout the game. So, no need to want to add little bits and pieces to it. A new one will be along in due course.

Obviously not going to happen as there are a million and one things to do. However, would a mod be able to essentially control the little terror map dronebot thingies at some point and use them as researched drones?

The whole point of those drones would be them being cheap and disposable, this would end the pilot/vehicle experience drama...

Also drones could be used as a method to combat the eventual addition of Caesan psionics

You could send them in to dangerous situations, and if they got blown up, it should impact your score a lot less than losing a life. Right now if you lose the armored vehicle you lose several points, and since it can be destroyed in just a couple hits what's the point?

Aside from its ability to run over fences, I don't really see any point for the armored car right now. If they buff the durability, it could act as mobile cover. As for offense I'm not sure how to make it useful. I'm able to put a rocket launcher and more ammo on a soldier: he's harder to hit, doesn't taking up four spaces in the transport, and I'm pretty sure he fires with less AP cost.

It could make a lot of sense to give it longer sight range. We often imagine tanks and the like as having poor visibility, but modern tanks are much better about that and what we have here is essentially a scout car with plenty of view ports for an entire crew. It could definitely fit huge bulky optical systems like thermal imaging and night vision. Maybe it should have a sight advantage only in a narrow cone based on where the turret or chassis is facing.

Really I could see the vehicles as having a lot of cool bells and whistles that would make them really useful, like smoke dispensers and floodlights, but it depends how much time the dev team wants to invest in it.

Yeah, replace the armoured vehicles by drones campaign starts right now!!! lol

But seriously... They occupy 4 spaces, I'd rather have 3 more soldiers and 1 drone.

PS> It would be cool if the drones were charged with C4, when they die they go boom! But obviously you could explode it remotely too.

[Corporal Hicks]

Come on Xeno folks, chime in!

[Gorlom]

Can we call them teacups? Saucerbots worst nightmare!

[thothkins]

In my mind the first drones would take up the same amount of room as a tank. Obviously more streamlined and hovering, but still 2x2 on the map. A cross between the alien drone and an UAV.

I also thought that one of the Xenonauts would be controlling it, and that it's APs were pretty much also his (or soon to be hers). But considering all the vehicle/pilot experience that's happened since then, perhaps that could be quietly dropped.

Only later would they be reduced into something a bit cuter.

[Gauddlike]

So what advantage is there in taking out the vehicles that don't gain experience and adding drones that don't gain experience?

It is a lot of extra artwork plus coding for any other features you would want to add, like upgrades.

There needs to be a really convincing argument in favour of it to justify dropping other planned features to work on this one.

[Kaguya]

Any "exploration" based drone would be overall pretty bad. Slap Precision Rifles for everyone, and use disposable drones to spot aliens. Pew pew.

[thothkins]

"So what advantage is there in taking out the vehicles that don't gain experience and adding drones that don't gain experience?

It is a lot of extra artwork plus coding for any other features you would want to add, like upgrades.

There needs to be a really convincing argument in favour of it to justify dropping other planned features to work on this one. "

I think it's taken as a caveat on everything that it takes a heck of a lot of work, there's a heck of a lot of code involved. I'll even add that this one replaces something that's already had a lot of effort put into it for not an enormous game enhancing gain.

You wouldn't have to drop tanks at all. These could be an addition. A very expensive addition considering it's cutting edge stuff for the time.

I think there are some pretty imaginative posts on it already, that move them away from the lumbering tanks that we have.

It's always nice to throw a few ideas around...

[Gauddlike]

There are going to be both larger and smaller vehicles later in the game (4x4 and 2x2).

Assuming some of these will be able to hover then you already have what you are looking for.

As additional units drones don't really seem to add anything at all.

If drones were to be used they would need a niche that doesn't detract from the game.

Cheap exploration drones that can be thrown away to allow you take take enemies out from range with no risk take us back towards blaster bombs.

For me they are a good idea for a mod but not something I would be interested in seeing in the vanilla game.

On the other side of course there must be some good reasons I am not seeing for having them.

As has been mentioned drones would be a good counter to psionics at least.

Coming across as too negative here I know but I want people to throw ideas at me and show me what kind of uses they would have

Edited May 14, 2012 by Gauddlike

[thothkins]

Coming across as too negative here I know

yes you are, you big grump. Just throwing this one around really. I don't see it in the vanilla game either (if only due to time constraints). But putting out the idea to maybe use the alien tau drones at some point for your own use, may result in someone making such things easier to mod down the line.

Pros

- Removes experience debates

- Provides an almost starting R&D tree that is based very much in real world military technology. A big plus for me.

- Lots of folks use tanks as scouts. This would further embed that

- Immune to Mind Control (unless some of the advanced alien AI can take them over. Oooh scary)

- Immune to Chrysalids

- Minimal armaments, forcing tactical use of squad and less reliance on tank weaponry (as an option)

- offers an alternative to tanks - reduce tank APs while upping armour slightly to enhance differences. Nothing wrong with having either a scout option or a offensive option in your vehicle load out.

- Possibly an alternative to the motion scanner if funding doesn't get that high. Easier to use existing vehicle mecahnics as opposed to coding in motion scanner?

[Gauddlike]

You could always build the motion scanner into a light drone as an option if it is a scout.

Nothing you have mentioned there needs any coding that I can see.

If you wanted to add upgrades, other than a primary and secondary weapon choice, you would need to add some code.

Two ways I see that working off the top of my head:

1, Create a system to allow other items to be added on the vehicle screen in the same way weapons are selected now.

2, Add a way to make some troops not gain experience and move drones from the vehicle screen to appear on the soldier screen.

Give them very low strength but allow them to carry any other item that a soldier can use.

If you give them grenades it is assumed they have a grenade launcher built in, give them a rifle they obviously have a modular system to attach infantry weapons to etc.

In that situation a flag to allow certain armour types along with no experience would be useful.

[thothkins]

Nothing you have mentioned there needs any coding that I can see.

yay! that's got to be a plus, should the dev team not get a chance to do the motion scanner. 'Hey, we can't give you that, but here's an option that allows you to scout about a bit instead (although a small cone of sight should be all you get.)'

I was thinking along line number 1.

I think if you start giving them weapons or tricking them out they may get in the way of other already existing things. The tank should still be useful. Scouts should still be useful. You don't wanting to be sending in drones to kill the aliens, leaving everyone else back on the Chinook (although that's exactly what I'd want should Wolfy do a Xenonauts: Let's Play!)

It's something to be thought through and balanced. I'd give them more armour, before I'd give them weapons. I'd also try to build in the odd flaw as well.

- UFOs are reknowned for their electromagnetic effects.

- Controlling them in underground bases, alien bases, internal buildings (funding allowing) may be awkward, if not impossible.

- Sure, Caesian Mind Control and Reapers can't get them, but advanced alien AI can convert them to the alien cause and use them to scout you out.

checks and balances

[Gauddlike]

You don't wanting to be sending in drones to kill the aliens, leaving everyone else back on the Chinook

I would still be concerned that the best tactic would be to send in expendable drones while everyone else stood as far away as possible with precision rifles and rocket launchers.

I have added drones (as vehicles) to my own game to see how possible it is.

I have also used my own vehicle weapon mod to equip them with a smoke grenade and flare launcher, no offensive weapons.

They run around pretty quick, have no weapons and are pretty fragile.

They don't work all that well, from a purely functional perspective.

The game doesn't seem able to work out that a vehicle shouldn't have a 3x3 selection box or take up a 3x3 area on the Chinook.

The game also crashes if you try and rearrange them on the dropship as I can't find anywhere to allocate the dropship images.

The images are also missing in the vehicle window (again can't see where they are allocated).

Some animations, like moving, are missing for some reason even though I am using the original drone folder as a source.

They also pass through fences for some reason.

Otherwise they are perfectly fine!

[thothkins]

I would still be concerned that the best tactic would be to send in expendable drones while everyone else stood as far away as possible with precision rifles and rocket launchers.

what if the drones don't clear the fog of war permanantly around them? Imagine little tau drone. The put a very small circle of clear sight around it. From the front of the drone is projected it's sensors so it can see further when it's facing a particular way.

If it isn't facing that way, then the fog moves in. SO there won't be a clear line of sight created form where the tau drone is to where your troops are, as the fog closes in on the drone.

So, you're only getting a rough idea of what's up ahead. It means that the troops may know where the aliens are for a turn, but their accuracy will be greatly affected by the fog of war descending around the drone.

Rocket launcher attacks would also have reduced accuracy, but obviously there's an advantage of knowing roughly where the enemy is.

[Gauddlike]

Fog of war has no affect on accuracy atm as far as I know, that would need to be coded.

As would alterations to how the drones interacted with the FOW I imagine.

You could give the drones a normal sight range but with a narrow cone, that means anything they weren't directly focused on would not be visible to anyone else either.

Seems a bit counter intuitive though that the scout is practically blind in some situations.

[thothkins]

Fog of war has no affect on accuracy atm as far as I know, that would need to be coded.

As would alterations to how the drones interacted with the FOW I imagine.

Bah! need some thought there.

Seems a bit counter intuitive though that the scout is practically blind in some situations.

Trying to get that clunky, old fashioned tech feel in there. It records everything it sees in that narrow cone onto Betamax

[Gauddlike]

Ah so that is why they are vulnerable to electromagnetic energy, it wipes the tapes.

[thothkins]

I was going to go with them being mocked to self destruction by the aliens *

But I did mention electromagnetic effects didn't.

*cue flame war by folks who were highly supportive of the betamax format

[Safe-Keeper]

The best idea I've personally gotten out of this this thread is the ability for vehicles and perhaps aircraft to have an optional "equipment slot" in addition to their weapon slot(s). The first real-life example I thought of was aircraft carrying extra fuel, cameras or jamming pods.

Possible ground vehicle equipment would be the aforementioned motion scanner, a smoke grenade launcher, a searchlight/flare launcher/infared camera that let it operate in the dark without a visiblity penalty, or some sort of Stryker-ish countermeasure laser system that could shoot down incoming projectiles (I know that's way beyond Cold War technology, but maybe it could be researchable?). Just brainstorming here.

[Commissar Pancakes]

I'd definitely use a drone, smaller (slightly...which also means definitely more squishy), definitely a lot faster and with a good sight range, I'd be using them the same way I used Hovertank Plasmas in EU: bait for my marksman Alpha team.

I was going to go with them being mocked to self destruction by the aliens

And thank you for reminding me that Marvin the Robot once made an onboard Police computer commit suicide because he started talking to it...

[Gauddlike]

Some of the later vehicles are smaller and faster than the beginning one.

The only difference that we know of between the drones people are considering here and the vehicles that are being worked on is the name.

You can't really reflect a really fast drone without giving it huge amounts of AP's

All this does is make the maps feel smaller because you can run around most of it in the first turn or three.

If you increased the sight range as well this problem would get worse.

[thothkins]

You could give a drone the Aps the tank currently has, but then reduce the APs for the tanks, possibly with a small increase in aromour to compensate.

[Gauddlike]

I'd rather give a rookie a pistol and make him scout.

I could even call that role the "Thotkins" due to the bravery shown by your LP character if you want?

[thothkins]

I'd rather give a rookie a pistol and make him scout.

Doesn't morale fall when you are so obviously cruel to them. IOr are the dissenters shot too?

I could even call that role the "Thotkins" due to the bravery shown by your LP character if you want?

Ahem! Li'l thothkins survived a devastating terror battle through explosions and horrors, thank you very much.

Li'l thothkins is invariably the go to guy for helping to mop up the alien resistance. His self deprecating demeanour is simply a way of showing the others that it's OK to fear the unknown. That's it's only unknown mainly because the Skyranger doesn't have any bloody windows.

cheek

[Gauddlike]

No the dissenters are listened to, their points carefully considered then they are given a pistol and sent to check on the rookie.

[Chris]

Sorry, what's the proposal? We replace the existing vehicles with drones? What would be the difference? Haven't read the whole post, so perhaps I'm being dim here.