Ogilvy the Astronomer Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 That would be an elegant solution. +10 points for creative problem solving -- assuming, as you say, it's economically viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I think that Chris had said that female portraits would be created in any of the people who have already funded them, wanted them? That could be offset against the number required for this to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The New Romance Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'll duck out of this discussion after this but I still like my idea from another thread - open up another slot of $200 support that will be for portraits on female soldiers (or maybe just portraits generally) (another 15-20 portraits/sponsorship levels), then use that cash to pay for the portrait artist and implementation of female portraits in the game as a stand-alone not a stretch goal. I'm not sure if the economics work out or if the portrait artist can handle the extra work, so maybe it's not possible, but that way the issue is resolved, the new tier pays for the implementation and it's not seen as "taking away" from another stretch goal. Seems more win-win to me than making it an either/or. Pretty good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akavit Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Those kinds of things are what would add a lot of depth, diversity and replayability to a game – certainly more than “tall grass”. Actually, the tall grass feature is what made the top of my vote list. Destructible terrain and the ability to set fire to fields were the most enjoyable features in X-Com for me. Without tall grass it won't be possible to torch a field with a flamethrower then watch the fire spread over time. Things like proximity grenades, reaper mission, motion detectors came immediately after. New tilesets followed that. Features that are entirely cosmetic and don't contribute to actual gameplay got the lowest votes. Pilot names and callsigns, and memorials along with female soldiers are on that list. A dedicated level designer seemed fairly low priority to me as I believe that we are supposed to get a level editor tool with the game. If players can create new maps I expect that after the game is released there will soon be hundreds of downloadable maps to add to the game. No need to spend development time doing something that is so easy for the fans to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Then why are you arguing for it so much Already answered: They're crucial to make all players feel accepted by Xenonauts' community, especially after reading some of the offputing comments from the existing playerbase if you had a daugther, would you be confortable letting her play a game reinforcing the idea that only men are valuable, especially when it comes to important jobs like saving the human species? How can she identify to positive models if the only positive ones are of men (because "they" can do the ultimate sacrifice, unlile her)? Or do you also wonder why some men supported equal rights for women, or why some white people supported equal right for black people, even though it wasn't in their own personal interest? It's called being a decent human being. and seemingly offended when someone is against the idea? There's a problem being offended by douchebags? When you're in a room, and somebody tells a black person they're not welcome here, would you be low enough to keep silent? Has any female actually told you they feel unable to play a game that doesn't have female characters in or are you just assuming this is a problem? From a very quick straw poll I don't know any female gamers that care and I'm kind of struggling with the concept that any actually would. Yes, many times actually. Just listen closely when female gamers talk to other female gamers, because they certainly won't tell it to a guy that shows such disregard to them feeling welcome. There's even posts from female KS about that, it's not like it's rocket science either if you follow gaming and the gaming community. Have a look at what women say about Skyrim and being able for once not only to play as a woman (already offered by about everyone), but to face different female body types and ages in Skyrim's NPC, and not the omnipresent body physics defying hot chicxoor. You wouldn't even need that if you learned to put yourself in the shoes of somebody different from you. So for me I would have to fall into the camp of considering a lot of effort on this front wasteful. Having said that, if a lot of people want it then I'm all in favour of it. It just seems pointless if those arguing for it are doing so because they think it's the politically correct thing to do if no-one is actually that bothered. Considering the Xenonauts have disclosed the costs of a portrait, the rest is only a matter of not failing basic maths. Welcoming people certainly isn't political correctness, unless you consider not being a douche is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellstormer Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Is there a way to see the poll results so far somehow? Might just be missing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilvy the Astronomer Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Miles, I feel you’re being a little unfair to targetbsp. You make it sound (intentionally or not) that he’s one step from forming a lynch mob! Really he’s just flagging up the fact that the decision whether to include female soldiers should be, as with any other content decision, a result of cost versus benefit. Maybe it’s that concept that seems immoral. Note that he did say “if a lot of people want it then I'm all in favour of it.” That seems very reasonable. Anyway, if Kilrathi’s idea is financially sound then the issue is neatly resolved. I don’t want to flare up an argument; we should probably move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Miles, these forums are meant to be enjoyed by everyone, including children. Don't call other forum users douches, please. It's rude, and seems a little inconsistent given what you've just said above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targetbsp Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I suspect there's a large cultural difference here. I'm guessing your American by your use of the word douche? I'm from the UK and we don't really do discrimination here so the idea of making a political statement about it in a game is utterly bizarre to me. If you're from somewhere where discrimination still happens then I begin to understand your point of view. I'm entirely comfortable with my attitude and sense of empathy towards every other person on the planet thanks and can't be shamed into thinking that my trying to understand your point of view by questioning it makes me a bad person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Re: the poll, no, there isn't. And in fact I have to pay £24.99 to see the results, as you only get the first 100 results free. Bastards. Based on the first hundred results, level design is winning, with tilesets and female soldiers are putting in a strong showing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targetbsp Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I suspect the poll may have been slightly influenced by the lack of variety in the demo levels. Whilst it was clearly stated there would be more irrespective of a level designer, even armed with that knowledge it is pretty jarring when you play the same level 3 times in a row in your first handful of goes and then sit back and think how many ground missions you'll be doing in a typical game! So I was selecting everything that would mix that up: the level designed and tilesets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akavit Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Are most players aware that there's a level design tool in the current build? If I'm correct, we should be able to make as many maps as we like for the game after it's released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I chuckled as we had multiple posts all telling someone not to use a certain word while using it too :-) I thought it was quite an upmarket survey to be using. I used them for some work ago ages ago and they've not changed there. :-) Obviously, you'll be required to give us racing commentary of the polls as the days go past Chris. 'And it's Female Soldiers on the inside. Female Soldiers moving up on Soviet Terror. Soviet Terror a length back from Level Designer and Inside Missions, as they come up to the second. Vehicle experience still stuck at the start as the others go over the second...' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamkyon Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 There's a problem being offended by douchebags?When you're in a room, and somebody tells a black person they're not welcome here, would you be low enough to keep silent? Labeling dissenters as douchebags and making thinly veiled accusations of sexism is hardly the way to go if you're rallying to garner support for your favoured stretch goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 If it's anything like the Grand National we'll end up with the level designer breaking his legs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 There's a problem being offended by douchebags? The only person being offensive here is you. You may not agree with their opinions but that doesn't give you the right to denigrate others. Your opinions are welcome here, your insults aren't. You have the same opportunity to express your opinions as the rest of us, your vote counts just as much as everyone elses does. Alienating the community is not the best way to get your point across. Calm it down a little and you might well find you have more support than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 If it's anything like the Grand National we'll end up with the level designer breaking his legs... that's what I almost put in for Vehicle Experience" and then thought it was in poor taste I know, what was I thinking hopefully not literally breaking his legs, at least not until the work is done! and yet another post saying the bad word. Tsk, Tsk. It's the naughty corner for you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Like any others it is only a naughty word when intentionally used that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Somewhat unsurprisingly, the Mac / Linux port is coming up in dead last. It has a whole bunch of votes at "14" and a bunch of votes at "1" and not a lot in between. Guess we might have to pay for that one ourselves then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I was happy to concede that if it it opened up a huge market for you, and therefore bring in oodles of pennies, then you should say 'stuff the survey' and go for it. Well, as long as some of the pennies can get channelled into the game before release and not fund an extravagant lifestyle indulging in the banned sport of gerbil racing, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilrathi Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Tough call on the Mac/Linux one - I don't know what the cost would be but I'm sure you'd make a lot of people happy if you did it but I'm not surprised it's low on the poll since it's a real binary choice. Personally, as a PC user, it won't impact me in the least (other than by bringing in more pledges, which is a goal I obviously endorse) so I voted it low despite realizing it's probably a good idea to work in somewhere if you think the additional pledges/sales will cover the cost. Ok, time to go take a shower or, as they say in French, je vais prendre une douche. A bientot, -K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Like any others it is only a naughty word when intentionally used that way Oh, in that case you can just f... you see. restraint. tolerance and restraint. Gosh! That Chinook's coming right at my moral high ground >CRASH< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Level Designer rounded the first corner in the lead but has stumbled at the first hedge and Indoor Missions is practically alongside him into the second corner. Soviet Town is a couple of lengths behind, a nose in front of Military Base. Still in touch but trailing a little behind the front four is Female Soldiers, fighting it out with Reaper Hive. Blaster Bombs / Human Psionics has taken a tumble at the first and is limping badly. His owner didn't want to him to race; judging from the noise from the crowd it seems like they don't either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Level Designer rounded the first corner in the lead but has stumbled at the first hedge and Indoor Missions is practically alongside him into the second corner. Soviet Town is a couple of lengths behind, a nose in front of Military Base. Still in touch but trailing a little behind the front four is Female Soldiers, fighting it out with Reaper Hive.Blaster Bombs / Human Psionics has taken a tumble at the first and is limping badly. His owner didn't want to him to race; judging from the noise from the crowd it seems like they don't either... Give up this masquerade as a game designer, you have finally found your niche career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 There. isn't that much more exciting that a silly survey results page ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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