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[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11c)


Charon

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2 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

Question about the AI for you @Charon

How much information does the AI get when they spot you ? Speaking about armour, weapons, reaktion, TU remaning etc. I had an interesting situation regarding reaktion fire the other day, that really made me think if it was a clever move from the AI, or just a quincedent. 

They know everything. The things you mentioned + how much your armour degraded, what items you are carrying ( although i dont think they factor it in ),  the rank, hp, tu, moral, sight angle, sightrange, tiles in sight ... and more, i think. Just think about it, if they wouldnt know your rank, how should they target higher ranked soldiers ?

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2 hours ago, Charon said:

They know everything. The things you mentioned + how much your armour degraded, what items you are carrying ( although i dont think they factor it in ),  the rank, hp, tu, moral, sight angle, sightrange, tiles in sight ... and more, i think. Just think about it, if they wouldnt know your rank, how should they target higher ranked soldiers ?

Exactly, and they wouldnt make nearly as good decisions if they didnt know. They dont blow cover away to get to me, or use the weapon handaround or deliberatly demolish buildings when my guys are in them like I do, so they need that information for good decision making. I was just unsure how much info they got, so thanks for the clarafication. 

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It would be nice to have a lot of stuff, but that would not be on my priority list tbh. I think you can't do much wrong with the rule of thumb of "keep the soldiers that got hit more out of harm's way". If that occurs so much that you lose track, you should not survive the mission anyway.

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35 minutes ago, Larry Burstyn said:

It would be nice to know the status of my own armor.

The Xpedia entry for the armour has a right panel where the stats are listed.

 

If you are talking about the current status of your armour during battlefield conditions i would say that falls under the uncertain conditions of war, which you will have to deal with. Some things can be known ( like the armour values before the mission ) and other things are uncertainties which you will have to work with as such.
Having the skill to manage uncertainties in your life is a great skill to have, and extrapolates well from within the game into your life, if you know that you can do that.

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2 hours ago, Dagar said:

@CharonIs there any plan to expand the SHOCK effect to more items? Like grenades / Rockets? Could be cool on some advanced stun grenades at least.

Any changes require a lot of crossover work with other entities and people. Every time we change the shock effect @PALU will have to add the additional information.

 

Im always open to suggestions ofcourse, but if those kind of things make it into a commit or not is something else entirely. I dont know if apDamage would even work on aoe based weapons, but i dont see the necessity to apply them to grenades and rockets. For Phase 1 you have shotguns and smgs, and since it is an tutorial that is enough for the player. Phase 2 has shock weaponry and Phase 3 has Electron Weaponry. Since i deliberately gave them quite good stats recently there is no equivalent weapon category for Phase 4 ( eg. it doesnt matter if they are slightly too strong for their phase, since Phase 4 puts them into perspective again, and Electron Weapons for slowing down enemies is viable even in Phase 4 ). In Phase 4 the strongest SHOCK weapons are shotguns and SMGs again, which should give a slight higher value than before. If you need to capture a Praetor alive -45 tu for the next turn  can be invaluable, among other uses. If we spread the SHOCK feature too much we are undermining the outstanding features of other weapons again, which is not the goal. We dont wanna make the shotgun weapon better by applying a new feature and then give this feature to everything else as well.

So i would just say we need to complete a whole development cycle with the current changes before making any more of them = we need statistical data on the current ones.

Edited by Charon
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@Charon understood. Of course changes like these need to be tested first. Also I merely wanted to know if there was anything more planned with the SHOCK mechanism. I have occupied myself with both board and video game design over the last year, and one thing that is engrained in my perception of game design is that it generally is not good to have a whole mechanism being gimmicky, i.e. being special to a very narrow set of situations. Comparing SHOCK as it is now to suppression, you may see what I mean there. SHOCK is delivered by two distinct weapon classes of around ten, while suppression can be done with almost all weapons (apart from melee I think), including grenades, rockets, exploding props and ranged weapons that are not in the special role to do so.

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3 hours ago, Dagar said:

@Charon understood. Of course changes like these need to be tested first. Also I merely wanted to know if there was anything more planned with the SHOCK mechanism. I have occupied myself with both board and video game design over the last year, and one thing that is engrained in my perception of game design is that it generally is not good to have a whole mechanism being gimmicky, i.e. being special to a very narrow set of situations. Comparing SHOCK as it is now to suppression, you may see what I mean there. SHOCK is delivered by two distinct weapon classes of around ten, while suppression can be done with almost all weapons (apart from melee I think), including grenades, rockets, exploding props and ranged weapons that are not in the special role to do so.

While what you say might be true, think about that capturing stuff and androns are the 2 biggest factors in the game. Suppression might be applicable to most situations, but for the more dangerous ones it is not. Reapers, Xenomorphs, androns, robodogs and roboreaper are all unsuppressable. So while the use of the SHOCK feature is singular, the situation you can use it in is many. Capturing units alive is not a small part of the game, in fact its what the whole game revolves around. You can apply SHOCK to discs, tanks and androns as these are the most dangerous enemies in the game.

So all in all it is but a niche feature.

Edited by Charon
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I have to apologise, it seems like i keep messing up the antimatter tech. I noticed that Researches.AntiMatterTechnology actually requires Researches.AlienDarkTechnology, which is actually nonsense because Researches.AlienDarkTechnology is a deep Phase 2 technology, while Researches.AntiMatterTechnology is all about Phase 1. At the same time Researches.BasicAntiMatterTechnology missed that requirement, which is ofcourse not how it should be. I moved the Researches.AlienDarkTechnology from the Phase 1 Antimatter to the Phase 2 one, where it actually belongs to.

researches.xml

This doesnt mean the research is broken, it just may get accessible way later than intended.

Fixed.

 

@PALUcan you give me a second oppinion that now everything is at it should be ? Every Antimatter needs all Data Hacks for its phase + Dark Technology for Phase 2, Advanced Dark Technology for Phase 3, Ancient and Advanced Ancient Technology for Phase 4 + an invisible trigger in form of the corpse of the next phase + some basic technologies of the current phase.

Edited by Charon
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Getting every data hack for a phase is a fairly steep requirement, but probably not unreasonable. I've had some trouble with that in the RNG department, though, as the Carrier was very scarce in Phase 3, with an andron one early on and then 2 months of complete absence. I did eventually get a Sebillian one after over 3 months, and finally a Caesan one in the second to last wave (I think: I estimate the next wave to be phase 4). I believe I did get a couple of non Caesan ones in between those two. In the same vein, I still have to get a Sebillian base building mission: most of them have been androns, and the rest Caesan. I believe I've got all data hacks now, but I still lack the Fusion AP tech, which I think would be rather useful to deal with the nastier, hard to crack phase 4 foes (I get by with Plasma AP in phase 3).

In terms of balancing, I certainly wouldn't mind if it was possible to get craft that end up circling over a target to do so over land rather than a patch of ocean, as I had quite some trouble in the beginning of phase 3 with craft that were impossible to shoot down over land because of this (every bomber for the first several waves, for instance, and most of the cruisers. I had a rather significant lack of the heavy craft systems for quite a while because mostly only the small ones were possible to down over land). This is a completely different issue, though.

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@PALU :) Thank you for your oppinion.

But can you look into the file and see if you see exactly the same thing as i do ? Sometimes 2 pair of eyes can see more than 1, and i have messed up that research quite some times so i would require assistance in that field of expertise.

Edited by Charon
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I've tried to look at the antimatter researches, and they seem to be correct (I haven't looked for typing errors, but I've split the line so the 3 cases lie under each other, which should highlight any differences, but I would probably have missed errors generated through cut&paste of the first condition). It can be noted that the alien rebel requirement seems to be completely redundant, as this happens automatically without player action as far as I know, which means this requirement will always be fulfilled at the time the other conditions are met.

It can be noted that the alien fusion reactor appears in both of the two latest researches, so it's a 3:rd phase tech used for a phase 4 research requirement, but I don't think there's a phase 4 equivalent, and the other conditions are probably sufficiently restrictive. Thus, the requirement probably doesn't add much, but it isn't harmful either.

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I think I have a problem with invisible map objects. Didn't think to get a screenshot, but it was a warehouse building on a desert map. There were cover indicators and impassable tiles inside the building, but I couldn't actually see anything. This is on a fresh install, 1.65.

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4 minutes ago, Morbo513 said:

I think I have a problem with invisible map objects. Didn't think to get a screenshot, but it was a warehouse building on a desert map. There were cover indicators and impassable tiles inside the building, but I couldn't actually see anything. This is on a fresh install, 1.65.

You need XCE for X-Division.

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17 minutes ago, PALU said:

It can be noted that the alien rebel requirement seems to be completely redundant, as this happens automatically without player action as far as I know, which means this requirement will always be fulfilled at the time the other conditions are met.

Redundant not quite, as you still need to raid a light- scout- and corvette UFO to unlock it as soon as possible. I think this is the only example where gameplay and Lore is tightly tied together, as we can not allow the player to get access to antimatter technology before talking to our little rebel. It is on of the set cornerstones for X-Division and Paul is the red thread that goes all the way from the beginning of the game to the very endgame. It is quite important.

Edit: Antimatter Technology fills quite an important role to "beat" the praetors, but gameplay wise we didnt want to tie it to tightly to the endgame research, because of its high requirements. So while you could play through the game entirely without antimatter technology it is implied that the language knowledge of Paul, his scientific knowledge about antimatter, and ultimately his advancements once he sees ancient weapons for the first time is what makes accessing and beating the final base possible. A small but necessary step, without beating the aliens would not quite be possible.

It is also implied that our little rebel is what "unlocks" antimatter, and makes it produce- and harvestable.

Edited by Charon
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1 hour ago, Svinedrengen said:

Does this mess up something during a current playthrough, or can I replace with zero worries ? 

Ofcourse it does. If you have anything researched regarding those antimatter technologies they will get locked forever. Research is never save game compatible.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Mister said:

So no problems in theory if we don't have any lf those redearched?

Its unlikely that you dont have any of thosethings not researched, but yes, a new game is totally issue free, as is a save without the researches in questioned completed.

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4 hours ago, Charon said:

Its unlikely that you dont have any of thosethings not researched

Mmmh, I'm just about to end the first month (I'm a slow gamer), but even with the easier ground AI and slower invasion progression and doing quite good on the tactical department, I think I might have screwed up strategically by outfittting the extra bases too much to the point that monthly funding minus monthly manteinment expenses amounts to only a couple hundred thousand. I take it it is a better idea to centralize workshop workers in a single base, unlike researchers and planes? What about soldiers and land vehicles - do you deploy them from one base only or do you usually keep at least a squadron and a spare chinook in a secondary base?

At least I'm doing good on the airgame, though I haven't qite figured out how to live up to the expectations of the calculated 73% victory chance when battling a fighter with a starting-equipment foxtrot and condor together.

 

EDIT: The point being - I might as well restart then.


Oh, and BTW, I meant to tell you sooner but I forgot - you should probably get the 0.98.2.7 X-Division version removed from the Nexus, since you already have version 1 thereSpecially because version 0.98 has more endorsements and so shows up way sooner on the Top Files page. I bet my ass many people looking into "the de-facto mod for Xenonauts" have for quite some time stumbled upon the 0.98 page there and settled on that.

Edited by Mr. Mister
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@Mr. Mister I believe there are several viable tactical choices. I went with building 6 bases immediately and then gradually fitted them fully with a full team of solders, but yes, you need to look carefully at your expenses and estimated income or you'll end up in the red (I've had all production halted at least once).

Initially the reach of the aircraft is barely up to the radar range, so many bases (with aircraft) help down as many enemies as possible, which helps your future income.

When it comes to research I started with a single facility (the starting one), built a second one about two months later, and then expanded to facilities in two additional bases (rather slowly, as they're expensive). Eventually (late phase 2) I set up a base dedicated to research and tore down all the other ones, which freed up quite a lot of space, as I could then remove one barracks as well (allowing me to build two additional hangars in each of my "real" bases).

My workshop strategy is distributed, with one per base, with each workshop processing what its team brings back and producing what they need (with some limited shipping of building material to resources that are short of them). It's extremely expensive to ship craft cores and alien weapons for processing (bodies are a lot cheaper), which means local processing saves money. Also, there's the loss of productivity as you add workers to tasks, so having 4 engineers in each base each producing one weapon X is faster than having a central base producing 6 weapons with 24 engineers (although the central facility will push out the first weapons faster, but the individual teams will push our their weapon after about 5½ central production ones, which means total production is higher when distributed).

Having 6 teams is probably not optimal, as they tend to get a bit too little experience, and the more teams you have, the more equipment you need to produce (as well as tie up a hangar for a drop ship). I suspect 3 teams make better use of the resources and provide the troops with enough experience to keep up. You'll still need barracks and a store if you want to be able to ship in troops and equipment when the aliens attack a support base, though (I believe they tried to attack my "Brains" research base, even though no flights had taken off from it during an invasion wave and no troops were stationed there, but I managed to bring it down before I was certain that was the target base).

Engaging a fighter with a foxtrot seems rather pointless, as bombers tend to be rather useless against fighters (there's even a loading tip covering this). I'd send a full wing of 3 interceptors against fighters and reserve bombers for craft that can't take evasive actions (even though there are missiles that might work against fighters). The estimated percentages are somewhat odd, occasionally allowing you to bring down a craft automatically that you can't bring down by dealing the maximum possible damage. In the same vein, you can get your craft quite shot up, even when you can easily take down the craft without any damage at all if the fight is performed manually.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Mister said:

EDIT: The point being - I might as well restart then.

Up to you, but you dont need to restart.

 

1 hour ago, PALU said:

Also, there's the loss of productivity as you add workers to tasks, so having 4 engineers in each base each producing one weapon X is faster than having a central base producing 6 weapons with 24 engineers (although the central facility will push out the first weapons faster, but the individual teams will push our their weapon after about 5½ central production ones, which means total production is higher when distributed).

Wrong. Total production time is the same no matter how engineers are split. Here is an example: 4 engineers on 4 40 man hour projects take 40 hours to complete, no matter how you split them. If you put 4 engineers all on a single project they take 10 hours times 4, if you put 2 enginers on 2 projects they need 20 hours times 2, and if you put 1 engineer on each project than you end up with 40 hours times 1.

 

Do you have another build for me ? I wanna push out a bundled update for .10.

 

I also found out that AP Cannonry actually ignores shields in the same way dark weapons do, because of the radius 0.5.

Edited by Charon
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