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[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11c)


Charon

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29 minutes ago, PALU said:

Unfortunately, ground combat is a bit buggy, and I'd suggest using multiple saves that you cycle through. I've had a few different cases:

- Freezing during the enemy turn. This has sometimes been possible to get around by repositioning such that the buggying unit isn't visible. In one case that didn't work and I had to revert to the latest geoscape mission and land again as the landing save resulted in the same freeze. Fortunately, the geoscape save was fairly close to the landing point.
- Freezing during loading. Nothing to do but to use an earlier save if several attempts all freeze, unless the advice in the preceding post works.

I think the reason this is more common during terror missions than the smaller ones is that there's more going one, so there are more chances that a bug is triggered.

@LadyAthena

Unfortunately both wrong.

1. There is no freezing in the game anymore par the ambient sound mod ones. Deactivating them removes all freezing from the game, except for xenomorph missions ( reaction attacks by xenomorphs after a load can technically still cause a freeze ).

2. Normal saves are usually never corrupted. So restarting and reloading saves will work, even if you need a few attempts. The game should only be played with manual saves, as other saves dont work quite well.

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20 minutes ago, PALU said:

Unless "Charons Changes, Psi, Sounds" and/or "No click sound" are ambient sound mods, I fail to find any that are activated by the X-Division installation. "COM - Ambience Forest" and "COM - Ambient Sounds" are marked as not being active.

They are under the advanced installation options for people to choose from.

 

If you are still getting freezes we need a report, as tracking down bugs from hearsaying is hard.

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I do get freezes from time to time. However, the "no ground combat saves" rule for bug reports essentially rules out any useful bug reporting of ground combat bugs. What info, apart from the mandatory mod installation screenshot and a useful description do you need to have a reasonable chance to find something?
Still hearsay, of course, so this is just background info, most of the cases I've seen seem to be some enemy unit acting, but probably freezing mid action, and most, but not all, of the cases have involved melee units (Reapers, robodogs. I'm not sure I've seen xenomophs, but it's probably just because the sample is small).

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4 minutes ago, PALU said:

I do get freezes from time to time. However, the "no ground combat saves" rule for bug reports essentially rules out any useful bug reporting of ground combat bugs. What info, apart from the mandatory mod installation screenshot and a useful description do you need to have a reasonable chance to find something?

1. Its not for you to decide what useful information is. Secondly, i need the modloader, a description of the things which lead to the bug and in the best ( or worst ) case video proof.

People  who are playing/recording right now like Mulligan, Svinedrengen, Dagar and myself are all playing bug free. So whatever it is it doesnt seem to be major issue or even exist at this point, apart from the things mentioned.

6 minutes ago, PALU said:

Still hearsay, of course, so this is just background info, most of the cases I've seen seem to be some enemy unit acting, but probably freezing mid action, and most, but not all, of the cases have involved melee units (Reapers, robodogs. I'm not sure I've seen xenomophs, but it's probably just because the sample is small).

Well, 1.0 hasnt been out for that long, and i havent heard of any freezing reports since it did. But you are right, technically it can still happen for robodogs, melee roboreapers and melee xenomorph.

The main difference between us and other people is that we usually dont save and load right after a mission. Going into a terror site, saving and continueing the next day has the biggest chance of creating bugs, since you have to load a ground combat save with a maximum number of units remaining, as you said. The more you play honestman, and thuse dont load, the less bugs you have. Nothing of that is fixable, its the loading issue with how Xenonauts was coded.

Bottom line is if you never load a GC save you will never have a bug. Beyond that it gets less stable.

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@PALUOh i forgot, i improved the drone AI a bit so it doesnt reserve TUs for reaction fire that much ( and thuse doesnt have an opportunity to cause a freeze ): aiprops.xml

About not fixable freezes, i can technically remove the reaction fire capability for said units as reaction fire for them doesnt see that much of usefull useage anyway, but i dont want to limit the AI just because Xenonauts was coded badly. Apart from that the AI doesnt get into situations like these very often either, and if you didnt load a groud combat save it wont freeze even if it happens.

The point is i dont want to limit my own experience just because other people dont want to play honestman. Nor do i want to limit other peoples experience if they want to play honestman ( as this is the intended/standart mode ).

If you want to remove them however here is the code disableReactionFire="1" in the weapons_gc.xml under <props> for each weapon. Then you would have a 100% freeze free game, even on reload.

Edited by Charon
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Are the freezes I've seen (which most likely have been triggered by reloading) caused by reaction fire TU reservation, though? None of my cases have been during my turn (when reaction fire attempts by melee units would be triggered by my actions), instead, it happens during the enemy turn, but it's hard to say what happens in detail, as I typically see an enemy move in the distance and then disappear out of view, or all of it happening completely out of view, such as hearing a unit firing, and then nothing more happens. However, I definitely can't rule out reactions to actions by locals.

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8 minutes ago, PALU said:

Are the freezes I've seen (which most likely have been triggered by reloading) caused by reaction fire TU reservation, though?

Most likely. Civilians and Locals run around on every map and the statistical possibility, after a reload, of that happening is there. A robodog spawns and a civilian, which movement comes after the alien one, runs past it. BOOM FREEZE. Same for any other melee alien that had any reserved TU anywhere on the map, even if it just accidently had them because the hiding spot was the best one before the next turn.

There could ofcourse also be unexplained bugs happening, but the frequency is something like 1 in 500 hours. Thats stable enough for me.

Just try out what i said and see if you get anymore freezes. If you dont, you know you fixed it.

Edit: Anyway, this topic is over.

Edited by Charon
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Geoscape bug indication (probably not enough meat to be a bug report, but might serve as an indication of something to look out for): I've twice had the game suddenly disappear after having aircraft catch up with an alien craft, auto resolved the conflict, and then immediately gotten a new engagement seemingly waiting in the background. When that was auto resolved the game vanished. In both cases reloading the latest save had things play out differently so the engagements were resolved separated in time.

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2 hours ago, PALU said:

Geoscape bug indication (probably not enough meat to be a bug report, but might serve as an indication of something to look out for): I've twice had the game suddenly disappear after having aircraft catch up with an alien craft, auto resolved the conflict, and then immediately gotten a new engagement seemingly waiting in the background. When that was auto resolved the game vanished. In both cases reloading the latest save had things play out differently so the engagements were resolved separated in time.

Every single of your reports is like chasing a Fata Morgana. A game cant disappear, it can only Crash To Deskop ( CTD ) or it can close. Apart from the fact i dont know what went on i only want you to make a report from now on following the guidelines i laid out in the OP. Also work a bit on your descriptions.

Other people are here for the first time, you have been here long enough to follow the rules, so please do.

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Just a small not about crashing/disappearing. I work in a big company working on PCs with Windows OS. Our dedicated software started to "disappear" without any notice or a crash note just after an upgrade from Widnows 10 v. 1511 to v. 1703 and later. It seems having problems with some new (or changed) way of work with memory on new W10 versions. I found a note about similar strange memory behaviour of later Windows 10 releases at the web page of 7zip: https://sourceforge.net/p/sevenzip/discussion/45797/thread/e730c709/

Our software needs upgrade to change its way of work with PC memory and it may be a similar cause also for other software, incl. games.

Back to X-div: I have registered many freezing during loading of ground combat (at approx. 95% of progress bar), almost all my GC saves were done just after start of my turn. When I press ESC during the freezed loading screen, I am able to go back to the main menu sometimes, but the game is broken and crashes. I have to go 1 GC save back to continue playing, sometimes more. Of course I'm using only manual saves, no autosaves.

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56 minutes ago, DDTerr said:

Our dedicated software started to "disappear"

What is "disappear" ? What is your "dedicated software" ?

1 hour ago, DDTerr said:

Back to X-div: I have registered many freezing during loading of ground combat (at approx. 95% of progress bar), almost all my GC saves were done just after start of my turn. When I press ESC during the freezed loading screen, I am able to go back to the main menu sometimes, but the game is broken and crashes. I have to go 1 GC save back to continue playing, sometimes more. Of course I'm using only manual saves, no autosaves.

If it has something to do with win10 than we can do nothing about that.

If you need help you will have to follow the guidelines:

On 8/10/2016 at 7:22 PM, Charon said:

I think i got a bug, can you help me ?

If you want some help, make a bug report or think that something is not the way it is supposed to be, add a full screenshots of your whole modloader and your savegame ( geoscpae only ).

 

Anyway, thanks for the heads up.

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9 hours ago, Charon said:

What is "disappear" ? What is your "dedicated software" ?

If it has something to do with win10 than we can do nothing about that.

If you need help you will have to follow the guidelines:

"Disappear" means it is running, you are leaving it without any interaction from your keyboard or your mouse and it "closes" itself without any notice after some time. There is no intentional code for this behaviour in the software. The problem started to appear just after 2017 Win10 upgrade. Our software has been in development since 2008, is written in C++ and several latest versions were compiled by Visual Studio 2017, but not the latest version. We test the latest VS version this week. This off-topic paragraph was written just to explain that some problems can lay outside of your/our possibilities - with Microsoft being responsible for them.

I play the latest X-division properly installed on Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 with latest updates, AMD Phenom II X6, 8 GB RAM, nVidia geForce GTX 460.

But I need no help as you clearly said there's no guarantee for GC saves, esp. when saving frequently. I just wanted to mention that the loading freezing still exists.

image.png.8bb5720450233842e0152a7674c22b0e.png

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1 hour ago, DDTerr said:

This off-topic paragraph was written just to explain that some problems can lay outside of your/our possibilities - with Microsoft being responsible for them

Aye. I just dont think the impression that X-Division crashes  at ever step and corner is a correct one, and fata morgana reports dont help to improve the stability of the game.

 

I streamed X-Division tonight and encountered a freezing bug right after i reaction shot a reaper, no GC save was loaded. So the freezing bugs still exist, they appear sometimes and thats why i save every other turn. Mulligan encountered a Crash on Load yesterday. All in all bugs pop up every now and then but the game is totally playable and we try to keep it as stable as we possibly can.

Thank you for the info, it helps. Maybe not now and not tomorrow, but the cross information from different players help paint a more clear picture than talking back does good ( you know who you are ).

:)

 

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I noticed the disappearing game bug after I had an update to Windows 10 also.  It disappears from the screen and if I click the little icon on the bottom of the screen (in the tray area) it will reappear on its own several seconds later.  The disappearing act always happens shortly after opening the game.   And after it reappears it does not disappear again.  At least not until I close and open the game at some later time.   I did not not mention it earlier as I realized it was a Windows 10 problem not a Xeno or X-Division problem.

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2 hours ago, Larry Burstyn said:

I noticed the disappearing game bug after I had an update to Windows 10 also.  It disappears from the screen and if I click the little icon on the bottom of the screen (in the tray area) it will reappear on its own several seconds later.  The disappearing act always happens shortly after opening the game.   And after it reappears it does not disappear again.  At least not until I close and open the game at some later time.   I did not not mention it earlier as I realized it was a Windows 10 problem not a Xeno or X-Division problem.

So its different from simply minimising a programme ? Sounds like a simple minimising to task bar.

Edited by Charon
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So, I just started playing this mod. GOOD LORD, CHARON. That's a hell of a list of features you have on the front page. Just captured my first UFO and I have to say, while I might have been a bit unprepared, this game seems profoundly difficult. This coming from a long time XCOM veteran, and someone who regards Terror from the Deep as one of the best entries in the franchise. And not because the aliens have billions of HP like those schmucks over at Long War. They're actively baiting me into traps and trying to counter my aggressive special ops esque play style. These enemies are actually intelligent! 

I'm not going to clutter up the mod thread with endless reports, but I just have to say....WOW...this mod sure knows how to make a good first impression! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have gone over the xenoopedia and spottet a view incorrect things ( due to a lack of knowledge )

  • Striking Crashsites doesnt provide a relationship bonus ( Knowledge.Crashsite )
  • Landing, Supply and Cargo UFO dont have a "torpdeo" but a sonic beam which works similar to the Sonic Thruster cannon just at a longer range.
  • Not all armour Xpedia entries have their production cost in the description.
  • Just a knowledge thing: andron units are bad at reacting in general, unless they have a shield. Once the shield is gone they loose most of their reaction capability.

 

I have looked over most of the entries so far and they are well done. I fixed the issues i saw with them and cleaned up a few coding lines. I also merged and updated the data with the current one as much as i could find them. @PALUs orginal file together with a modinfo file seems to work 100%. There are a few conceptual mistakes but i left most of them in out of respect for the creator.

@PALUWell done. I would like to name it 

Palu´s Shining Xenopedia

and integrate it as a seperate mod into the next X-Division Patch. Alternatively, i would also be honored to name it X-Division Palu´s Shining Lore.

You also asked about morphing creatures. I made a diagram to roughly and concisely explain how morphing units behave:

1984175692_MorphingUnits.thumb.png.af3ef1aa4b9a3ff2cad8f8fdd8c18d39.png

1908133911_NormalMorphingUnits.thumb.png.56a3ef54508d46ad42615e5889605463.png

 

( The faster we get this done the faster im going to unofficially bring out the next version with the changes so far. I will also include the Palu´s Shining Lore into the installer.)

@Svinedrengen

Edited by Charon
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- I haven't invented the crash site bonus: it comes from somewhere displayed by the mod. This may be some remaining original text or a loading tip (saying it's 50% of the normal bonus, I think). Doesn't mean it has to be correct, though, only that the text is somewhere else as well.
- I haven't gone back and updated entries made earlier, which is why the production costs may be missing from some armors.
- I don't believe I've invented torpedo for the ship types mentioned, but think I've taken it from the weapon file. Doesn't mean they actually are torpedoes, though, as all I've got to go on is the names as I usually haven't seen the ships yet. There's a reason no effects of the weapons are described (and statements that weapons are nastier at later stages haven't been verified either: I've just assumed that's the case for all kinds of upgraded versions of vehicles)... I haven't gone back and checked, though.
- My experience of Androns is that when you open a door in a ship and there's an Andron just beside the door, the bugger blasts through the the shield of the soldier rather frequently. If it was a minigun the soldier is a goner as well. It the andron is at the back of the room the shield will usually save the soldier even against a minigun, but won't be usable for another try. I'd certainly like to have a TeraHertz scanner to see if there's an enemy lurking beside the doors... If only the shielded androns would reaction fire clearing out a craft would be fairly easy. It's possible my play style doesn't build reaction sufficiently, but the shooting galleries I saw in the previous version haven't been seen in the current one, and trying to capture as much as possible doesn't help either.
- The reason I haven't tried to describe xenomorph morphing is that I haven't found any suitable place for it (and I've never seen a queen morph "for real" myself). It shouldn't be in an entry on capture, as that's far too early usually, but rather when the player has seen it, but that's not possible to determine (and I've never seen the results of a face hugger conversion either). Possibly on DNA analysis. I've never seen a terror soldier morph into roboreaper boxes either, only robodog ones, but haven't seen any phase 3 ones.
- A robosadist corpse is required to develop one of the last stage armors. My single encounter with a robosadist gave the impression no corpse can be recovered, and my attempts to determine if that was correct from the files failed. The earlier version op endgame save did have the armor, but not the corpse disassembly.
- It can be noted that I have mentioned the other sadist unit after the players have had enough frustration with it to probably figure it out themselves.
- I don't care about credits nor do I think keeping incorrect info shows respect.

 

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4 hours ago, PALU said:

- I don't care about credits nor do I think keeping incorrect info shows respect.

I corrected incorrect info, but if "Torpedo" was used and the whole flow of the text hints towards "Torpedo" i cant just swap out the word for "Sonic Beam". I would need to rewrite the text, which is ofcourse not what im going to do.

4 hours ago, PALU said:

- A robosadist corpse is required to develop one of the last stage armors. My single encounter with a robosadist gave the impression no corpse can be recovered, and my attempts to determine if that was correct from the files failed. The earlier version op endgame save did have the armor, but not the corpse disassembly.

There needs to be at least another unit alive on the map. Damage it until it falls to a recharging state. Manually fire from a safe distance until it explodes. You should get the corpse. To pull that off you have 2 full turns. Mind that you shouldnt destroy the corpse after the exposion, that destroys it. Also all overdamage kills destroy it too.

 

You seem frustrated. Whats the matter ?

4 hours ago, PALU said:

- My experience of Androns is that when you open a door in a ship and there's an Andron just beside the door, the bugger blasts through the the shield of the soldier rather frequently. If it was a minigun the soldier is a goner as well. It the andron is at the back of the room the shield will usually save the soldier even against a minigun, but won't be usable for another try. I'd certainly like to have a TeraHertz scanner to see if there's an enemy lurking beside the doors... If only the shielded androns would reaction fire clearing out a craft would be fairly easy. It's possible my play style doesn't build reaction sufficiently, but the shooting galleries I saw in the previous version haven't been seen in the current one, and trying to capture as much as possible doesn't help either.

Caesan reflex stats range from 75, phase 1, to 135, phase 4. Sebillians range from 60 to 127. Andron units range from 0 to ... 0. For normal andron units at least. The hub/server/terminal/controller ( no shield ) range from 60 to a 80. The only androns which have moderate reflex stats are the guardian scripted ones at a moderate 100. These are the units which mostly won´t leave the command room, whatever the command room currently is. They spawn in the command room and mostly stay there. Although they are visually indistuingishable from other units.

Not saying that a 100% TU 100 reflex guardian cant completely shoot you away, but thats their best strategy they can hope for. They are just trying their best, and when they point their weapon into the wrong direction its pretty much game over.

 

Yo, are you giving your blessings to the integration ?

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5 hours ago, PALU said:

My single encounter with a robosadist gave the impression no corpse can be recovered,

Nice catch. Now there is a problem. Either we 1. throw out a very good gameplay concept ( ressurection ) or we throw out all research ties the unit has ( because the code doesnt allow for items to be dropped after death ).

Ive looked at it and since only 2 researches are actually tied into roborex drops ( which dont drop ) i decided that the researches simply "drops" the roborex techs. This concerns the Researches.Guardian and the Researches.AncientAntiMatterTechnology. I deleted the requirement for the ancient one and replaced it with the robodog ghost one for the guardian: researches.xml @Svinedrengen
@PALUif you want to fix up your game propably just deleting the 2 requirements should do. Worst case scenario you will have to manually unlock the armour.

 

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Androns: Yes, I'm referring to the guarding ones in the command room. The ones standing inside a door (but never beside it, as far as I've seen) on the lower level are passive.

Integration: I thought I did so from the beginning. My first preference would be just integration as part of the mod, the second one integration as part of Lore++ (where the "solider" spelling could be corrected), but an additional mod would work.

The reason I really don't like the robosadist is that it's extremely annoying as you're locked up turn after turn waiting for it to respawn again and again, and again while enemies out of view fire at you, but more seriously, it depletes your ammo severely since it has an enormous amount of hit points. Also, you can't kill it on the first turn as it's protected by the smoke, and the resurrection explosion destroys explosives. Finally it kills the game when a non existent bug freezes it when the robosadist attacks the ground vehicle (which it seems to have a preference for), so you have to make sure to keep that out of range (while also being restricted by the area controlled by enemies). A single resurrection would mean you only had to kill it 3 times, which is bad enough, but something you can at least live with (and which can be implemented with the current logic used for roboreapers).

Predator issues:
- The Predator armor is described as being impervious to gas, so it came as a surprise when alien stun gas knocked the solider out (and Harridans ought to be immune to non corrosive gas as well). I suspect the units can't be fixed, in which case the description ought to be.
- If I remember correctly, the Predator is described as giving the soldier the strength of 3 men. As far as I can see it supports itself, but there's no extra carrying capacity, so there's a lot of unused space there (on my units, as they carry miniguns with some ammo and med packs [so other units can use them]). I hadn't gotten access to that armor when I updated the text.
- The Predator text indicates you should be able to walk through walls like enemy units can, but I've only managed to march through fences rather than jumping them (which at least allows you to clear the way for shield bearers).

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