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[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11c)


Charon

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You're making absolutely no sense. I ask a couple of questions, and you don't answer them, but rather accuse me of hallucinating. I try to explain what I understand the files contain, and I just get abuse back. Instead of clarifying when I ask for clarifications, you still refuse to give any answers, including not pointing out if I've misunderstood the file contents on some point.

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23 minutes ago, PALU said:

I ask a couple of questions, and you don't answer them

On 9/10/2018 at 4:54 PM, PALU said:

Also, why is the requirement chemical poor sniper and the incendiary rifle, skipping the energy type? If there'd be some logic behind it I'd expect the energy, chemical, and incendiary poor snipers to be used for the basic version and the three rifles for the advanced one, or, possibly, 2 out of 3

There is no sniper and rifle, only Destroyer, Devastator, Horror, Reaper, Devourer and Defender.

The significant featurs of those weapons is that a set of weapons is used by one race, and the other by the other one. The damage types are secondary lore wise, as are the properties of the weapons.

23 minutes ago, PALU said:

Instead of clarifying when I ask for clarifications, you still refuse to give any answers, including not pointing out if I've misunderstood the file contents on some point.

Nobody accuses you of anything. Hallucinating is a normal word for a situation where somebody thinks they are in a certain context, but isnt. There is nothing negative about it.

23 minutes ago, PALU said:

but rather accuse me of hallucinating.

I thought you would understand when i said you were hallucinating that the properties of weapons is not important for the lore part. But if you couldnt understand that here it is again: The properties of the Ancient weapons is secondary to the lore description.

 

About the abusive part. If 2 people talking over the internet is abusive to you you clearly have the wrong priorities. If you want a lovely hug for your work you can ask for it, but dont play the crying primadonna.

Edited by Charon
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So, an undefined set of weapons, which may or may not be the same as the one required for the research of a tech is used by one of two races (unspecified which), and another set of weapon (presumably the complement) is used by the other race. The properties of the individual weapons are almost irrelevant, but everything apparently hinges on some unspecified source of lore I'm not aware of.

And yes, saying that someone is hallucinating is accusing them of substance abuse or being subject to mental disorders, which is rather strong. It might not be the case in your language, which I've heard tends to be direct to a point which people using other languages interpret as rude. It's certainly the case that I'm trying to make up something out of almost nothing, and the sources I have access to are rejected as being irrelevant by you, without providing any hints of alternative sources.

I'm not asking for a hug, but I AM asking for answers with more meat than "That's wrong. Try something else".

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7 minutes ago, PALU said:

I'm not asking for a hug, but I AM asking for answers with more meat than "That's wrong. Try something else".

You won´t get more. Im afraid you will have to work with what you have.

 

GO players can also hallucinate about a 30 move sequence where a group of stones has more freedoms than they actually have. So they hallucinated. But we are a lot of people all around the globe, with a different understanding of the english language and its implications. Some sort of ... leeway or understanding about this would be a virtue. Dont you think so ?

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Alien Ancient Technology

Classified

Ancient Alien Technology

Classified

Alien Ancient Defender

Classified

We have devised a disassembly protocol for this weapon to extract 4 Anti Cores from each weapon.

Alien Ancient Devourer

Classified

We have devised a disassembly protocol for this weapon to extract 4 Anti Cores from each weapon.

Alien Ancient Destroyer

Classified

We have devised a disassembly protocol for this weapon to extract 4 Anti Cores from each weapon.

Alien Ancient Devastator

Classified

We have devised a disassembly protocol for this weapon to extract 4 Anti Cores from each weapon.

Alien Ancient Horror

Classified

We have devised a disassembly protocol for this weapon to extract 4 Anti Cores from each weapon.

Alien Ancient Reaper

Classified

We have devised a disassembly protocol for this weapon to extract 4 Anti Cores from each weapon.

 

And I then ask: which OTHER entries should I skip as I'm not allowed to know the lore required to write them? You're free to use what I've posted earlier as a basis for any replacement you may see fit.

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13 minutes ago, PALU said:

And I then ask: which OTHER entries should I skip as I'm not allowed to know the lore required to write them?

You seem to be hallucinating again. You are under the impression that there is lore which im withholding from you. There is none.

14 minutes ago, PALU said:

You're free to use what I've posted earlier as a basis for any replacement you may see fit.

Uhm, im not using any of your stuff. All the time i was just helping you to fill your own Xpedia entry. So whether or not your are writing Classified into your entries is totally up to you.

 

Cheers :)

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Thanks Dagar. Unfortunately, it appear Charon has merely been trolling, so it doesn't matter one bit.

 

Edit:

I was under the impression that I was producing X-pedia entries for a future update of the mod. However, Charon stated he just supported production for my enjoyment. Given that fundamental rift regarding the purpose of the effort I see no reason to continue.

The current state is in the attached file. It differs from what's been posted in this thread in a couple of spelling corrections to pre existing entries, errors made by me when trying to synchronize the contents of the file with the posted contents (I'm sure there are such errors), and the last set of entries where I've just replaced the erroneous descriptions with "Classified", but kept my original descriptions of core extraction. The file is "as is". I have no intention of maintaining it.

It can be noted that some armor research indications are incorrect, as Charon had me match those to a possible future version, not the current one.

The file is free to use when it comes to my contents, including any usage in a possible mod update. The rest of it is subject to whatever restrictions there may be.

xenopedia.xml

Edited by PALU
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15 hours ago, PALU said:

Thanks Dagar. Unfortunately, it appear Charon has merely been trolling, so it doesn't matter one bit.

 

Edit:

I was under the impression that I was producing X-pedia entries for a future update of the mod. However, Charon stated he just supported production for my enjoyment. Given that fundamental rift regarding the purpose of the effort I see no reason to continue.

The current state is in the attached file. It differs from what's been posted in this thread in a couple of spelling corrections to pre existing entries, errors made by me when trying to synchronize the contents of the file with the posted contents (I'm sure there are such errors), and the last set of entries where I've just replaced the erroneous descriptions with "Classified", but kept my original descriptions of core extraction. The file is "as is". I have no intention of maintaining it.

It can be noted that some armor research indications are incorrect, as Charon had me match those to a possible future version, not the current one.

The file is free to use when it comes to my contents, including any usage in a possible mod update. The rest of it is subject to whatever restrictions there may be.

xenopedia.xml

Thank you for your work and good luck.

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Hello, i currently first run this awesome mod, i saved before first wave with terror carrier.

I am managed to shot down this bastard with 9 my foxtrots smashed by him.

I am wondering what better shot him down or terror mission? operators is the same on ship and on mission?

Сarrier datacore give firebird which looks like a very good fighter throughout the entery game? Am i right? 

If I beat him, then after that continue to shoot down carriers or let a terror mission be?

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47 minutes ago, in_gene said:

I am wondering what better shot him down or terror mission? operators is the same on ship and on mission?

You are getting more different operators on a crashsite, minus the possible death on impact.

48 minutes ago, in_gene said:

Сarrier datacore give firebird which looks like a very good fighter throughout the entery game? Am i right? 

Yes, Firebirds are relevant up until the Endgame content begins.

49 minutes ago, in_gene said:

If I beat him, then after that continue to shoot down carriers or let a terror mission be?

If you want more Firebirds you will need to shoot down more Terror Carriers, or get the components somewhere else. A Crashsite usually gives you more resources, and around 270 relationship points, which is the average you would also get on a terror site, unless you are able to save every civilian and local.

As general rule we tried to make the crashsite more attractiv, given that you can pull of a successfull mission.

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15 hours ago, Charon said:

You are getting more different operators on a crashsite, minus the possible death on impact.

Yes, Firebirds are relevant up until the Endgame content begins.

If you want more Firebirds you will need to shoot down more Terror Carriers, or get the components somewhere else. A Crashsite usually gives you more resources, and around 270 relationship points, which is the average you would also get on a terror site, unless you are able to save every civilian and local.

As general rule we tried to make the crashsite more attractiv, given that you can pull of a successfull mission.

Thanks. I know about possibilities to down terror battleship without loss planes(aircircus video), but down the carrier seems imposible to me without loss planes, maybe 2 f17 with anti missiles and one foxtrot with torpedos. It is possible?

Edited by in_gene
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On 9/13/2018 at 7:51 PM, PALU said:

Thanks Dagar. Unfortunately, it appear Charon has merely been trolling, so it doesn't matter one bit.

 

Edit:

I was under the impression that I was producing X-pedia entries for a future update of the mod. However, Charon stated he just supported production for my enjoyment. Given that fundamental rift regarding the purpose of the effort I see no reason to continue.

The current state is in the attached file. It differs from what's been posted in this thread in a couple of spelling corrections to pre existing entries, errors made by me when trying to synchronize the contents of the file with the posted contents (I'm sure there are such errors), and the last set of entries where I've just replaced the erroneous descriptions with "Classified", but kept my original descriptions of core extraction. The file is "as is". I have no intention of maintaining it.

It can be noted that some armor research indications are incorrect, as Charon had me match those to a possible future version, not the current one.

The file is free to use when it comes to my contents, including any usage in a possible mod update. The rest of it is subject to whatever restrictions there may be.

xenopedia.xml

@CharonI also was under the impression that there would be a likelihood of you incorporating @PALU's texts into the mod. Would it be much work to do so? I mean, he's written his ass off over the last couple of weeks, and I at least find his texts pretty compelling.

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20 hours ago, in_gene said:

Thanks. I know about possibilities to down terror battleship without loss planes(aircircus video), but down the carrier seems imposible to me without loss planes, maybe 2 f17 with anti missiles and one foxtrot with torpedos. It is possible?

From the design view it should be possible, but practically it isnt. The main problem is that the foxtrot are pulling more aggro than the f17, and when the UFO switches targets will be prefered. Check my channel, in my latest videos i brought down 2 terror carrier, but couldnt save a single foxtrot.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJiDtR6YHRDiW4dpa_F-2aQ

2 hours ago, Dagar said:

@CharonI also was under the impression that there would be a likelihood of you incorporating @PALU's texts into the mod. Would it be much work to do so? I mean, he's written his ass off over the last couple of weeks, and I at least find his texts pretty compelling.

[Inappropriate wording deemed by forum moderators and due to that deleted ( by me )]

Edited by Charon
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@Dagar You should be able to use the file I posted in your current game (assuming you're using the current version of the mod).

I've had trouble understanding Charon at times: his way of communicating is hard to understand for me. A gross misunderstanding is that Charon appears to think I would write the stuff for my enjoyment, while I thought I was helping out. When it comes to work ethics, yes, if I've promised to do something, I try to make good on that promise, but when I try to help out (without any promises made), and then are told that it's to help me enjoy myself and the results are actually going into the bin, there is no point to continue: more junk in a bin is hardly useful for anyone, and it isn't producing any enjoyment for me, nor is there any promise or agreement that's broken. From my perspective, I tried to move on from the things Charon refused to talk about (to the point of not talking: questions were just ignored without any explanation for why) by asking which other topics it would be pointless to approach to avoid a repeat, but to no avail.

It's not exactly surprising Charon knew how it would end since he appears to have set up the whole sequence: Draw gullible fools into trying to help out with a announcement in the game, provide encouragement and indicating being part of the team (which I never asked for) by tossing questions from others to me as if I had any authority, and then pull the rug out from under the victims by informing them that the results are going into the bin. "Pump and dump" is the stock market version of it (although the profits tend to be greater than just laughs).

I've never claimed to be a great writer, and consider the texts produced to be barely passable, but better than the current nothing.

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1 hour ago, PALU said:

It's not exactly surprising Charon knew how it would end since he appears to have set up the whole sequence: Draw gullible fools into trying to help out with a announcement in the game, provide encouragement and indicating being part of the team (which I never asked for) by tossing questions from others to me as if I had any authority, and then pull the rug out from under the victims by informing them that the results are going into the bin. "Pump and dump" is the stock market version of it (although the profits tend to be greater than just laughs).

What can i improve on my behaviour ?

 

Edit: I looked up how this all started and these are the earliest things i could find.

On 6/11/2018 at 2:13 PM, PALU said:

- There are quite a few spelling errors in the files (not surprising, as I believe none of the people involved are native English speakers). Is there some easy way to get at these texts to extract them to provide you with suggestions for updates?

On 6/11/2018 at 9:51 PM, Charon said:

No backseat developing ! If you want to get something done sit down and do it.

About the non English speakers. I personally think the level of english skills we have is quite alright, and i havent encountered somebody who said is a "native speaker" which suggestions didnt boil down to geographic linguistic differences, eg. Americans arguing with Brittains what is the correct spelling. Than there are Irish, Scottish, australians to just name the geographic biggest ones. People in India also are proclaimed "native speakers" but i wouldnt really let them touch the texts either, and they also speak English profoundly different than the rest of the world. Yes, Brittain has been everywhere ;).

Ofcourse im open to written Xpedia entries ( not done ones ) to enjoy for my pleasure to change my mind.

What followed was an encyclopedia of questions on your side, which i answered, and then you started to post entries, with a lot of questions spiked inbetween, which i also answered. And that basically continued till the present day.

At no point did i state that i will take any of your work. Im sry that this has been misleading you, but there is no way that you silently become an official writer just because you post enough. I dont think your work is bad and encourage you to finish what you started to make your own fanmade lore mod ontop of X-Division, but nothing of that is Official. Whatever you do is 100% up to you, im only here to answer questions ( if i want to ) and make suggestions ( where i think you should improve things), but that is all.

 

You take care of the things you wanna do, and i take care of the things i wanna do :)

Cheers Mate

 

Edit2: More examples

On 9/2/2018 at 2:35 AM, Darkangel said:

- Is the current mod version final or will it still receive updates? i think i read somewhere, the mod was finished, but i see there have been several posts regarding tech description submissions, and even new UI for weapon tech (i also spent almost 2 minutes before finding the diference between the 2 pics ^^).

On 9/2/2018 at 7:47 AM, Charon said:

It is definitely final, eg. everything which should be in the game is in the game as it should be in the game. Apart from that a lot of passionate people still tinker on X-Division because they like it so much. When development on a game is finished there is always 20% unused assets left, like the improved UI. With 8gb that makes 1.6 gb on unused content which didnt pass the quality standart. For me i just like to play the game how i want to play the game if i find time to improve my experience.

 

Edited by Charon
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@Charon

It is correct you haven't explicitly stated that you're going to accept things. However, you have definitely done so implicitly by handing questions over to me, where I think you referred to me as the lore writer. A lore writer for a different mod would not be relevant in such a case. Similarly, suggesting changing things based on a future update of the mod reinforces the impression of working towards that update. I've never mentioned making a mod on top of the mod as I had no idea it was even possible until I failed to find things that turned out to be in your mod on top of the mod, and the warnings about not messing with additional mods in the installation instructions certainly doesn't inspire attempts to do so. Intimate familiarity with things can easily result in forgetting that newbies don't know "obvious" things, though. I have no interest in creating a mod (and finding out how to do so) and maintain it, and I have never had any such interest.

Being clear that while you may like what's written on some level, you still have no intention to use it would have killed the process early, without the resulting mess. Again, you never explicitly stated that you had changed your mind, but from my perspective what you wrote indicated you had.

Behavior (only because you asked for it):

Just not answering some questions leads to uncertainty on the other party whether you just missed the question, resulting in a significant risk of it being repeated. An explicit statement that you will not answer it helps a fair bit, and a short reason for why helps a lot. An apparently random set of answers and silence just serves to spread confusion.

Rudeness/directness has been covered earlier.

Being overly aggressive answering questions doesn't improve impressions. A particular case that struck me was when someone asked about a weapon being specified to have an ammo capacity of 2½ (or something like that) bursts. Rather than aggressively defend what's there, ridiculing any attempt to fix it, I'd either acknowledge it looks odd, or just refer to the author if those definitions (who eventually chimed in and confirmed that the question was indeed relevant). Just saying you hadn't written those parts and say who did would be an example of acknowledging a question while still not providing an answer (in that case you did do these things, which is good, but in addition to what I experienced as unwarranted aggression).

Asking someone you trust whether I have any points or not might help you determine whether this is bullshit from some oversensitive noob or something you might want to consider.

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@PALUIm sorry for the misleading traits which seem to have been there. From my perspective if you put 2 months of work into something at one point you want to start asking questions of why you are doing this, eg. putting the ball onto me seems to be wrong way around in my perspective. You are doing the work, you gotta make sure that you know what you need to know. Im NOT managing you, eg. you are not part of the team, therefore i have no responsibility of making sure you know what you have to know. This is like if somebody tells you to help him and you expect to get payed. You gotta make sure that you are on the same page BEFORE you commit to something. Which falls onto you, because you are doing the work.

you-need-to-start-asking-questions-dave-

 

45 minutes ago, PALU said:

Just not answering some questions leads to uncertainty on the other party whether you just missed the question, resulting in a significant risk of it being repeated. An explicit statement that you will not answer it helps a fair bit, and a short reason for why helps a lot. An apparently random set of answers and silence just serves to spread confusion.

The point about this is that at one point you expected me to answer every single questions truthfully in court, because you thought you were the official writer and part of the team. So slowly started to act like i owed you any kind of answers. The confusion is on your part as well, because, like i said you werent, hence there cant be any kind of confusion which i caused. This should have been an indication that i didnt have any kind of responsibility towards you, but people just like to see what they like to see ( dont take that the wrong way, its a general truth ).

 

Or you could have simply repeated the question, or pointed out that you still need an answer to that specific question. Again, im NOT managing you, it falls to you to make sure you get the information you need ( in a polite way ).

45 minutes ago, PALU said:

(in that case you did do these things, which is good, but in addition to what I experienced as unwarranted aggression).

I feel the same way about this, but i aint an angel in disguise. Most of my posts are aggression free, even when you started to spout that nonsense about the Ancient things earlier, but im still a human being apart from being an X-Division developer, with oppinions and emotions. But you are right, i noticed that too. If you want an emotion free environment you will have to wait until everybody gets replaced with robots ;).

 

I hope with this we are on the same page.

Edited by Charon
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If you bring up the Ancient stuff, I still have no idea what you mean, where the nonsense is, or anything else, so if you actually said something apart from "it's wrong" I failed to understand it, which is why it is extremely frustrating. I eventually gave up and tried to move on.

We are not on the same page, as I still have trouble understanding your intentions. However, I think we are not at war, which seems to be the best we can hope for.

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@PALU So you are actually going to quit writing these entries? Really, why? Because Charon said he is not going to use it in the future updates ( who no one knows when will come out ) ? So what, that does not mean that other X-Div players wont use it and like it. I just dont understand, because in my mind no person would ever write all this stuff, without finding atleast some enjoyment out of it, especially considering the texts which ( to me ) indikates it has been giving some thought. A shame and unfortunate to say the least.

Charon has stated several times that X-Div is finished, but that does not stop me from continuing  to make maps. Since the final release I have made a few more maps and fixed all of the existing ones not made by me so they can handle the amount of content X-Div delivers ( no more drones/tanks stuck in walls and buildings, no more spawn infront of kiosk so your vehicle cant move out, unless you destroy it first, etc ). I did this and still do, well knowing it will most likely never be in the official game, it will have to be my own thing on top of X-Div. What I am trying to say is, if you really enjoy writing these entries then you should continue, but the choice is ofcourse always yours.

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On 9/14/2018 at 6:16 PM, Charon said:

You are getting more different operators on a crashsite, minus the possible death on impact.

Yes, Firebirds are relevant up until the Endgame content begins.

If you want more Firebirds you will need to shoot down more Terror Carriers, or get the components somewhere else. A Crashsite usually gives you more resources, and around 270 relationship points, which is the average you would also get on a terror site, unless you are able to save every civilian and local.

As general rule we tried to make the crashsite more attractiv, given that you can pull of a successfull mission.

Those changes make capturing terror ships intact perhaps even too rewarding since none of operators die on crash. Don't know about relationship points though.

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2 minutes ago, Ruthless Reuban said:

Those changes make capturing terror ships intact perhaps even too rewarding since none of operators die on crash. Don't know about relationship points though.

Yes, thats the point. but there still is a 10% percent death on impact ratio. So ... small chance. Still the design is that a crashsite should be more rewarding than a terror site, but it is also MORE difficult than a terror site ( 24 less civs to shoot at, 12 local forces less which cant help you, smaller map, more enemies, and a carrier to storm ).

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@SvinedrengenAn important misconception is that I would enjoy writing the stuff, which I find to be more of a chore, while still trying to do a reasonable job at it while still actually slogging through it (i.e. trying to reach some balance between quality and speed). I don't see how people would be able to use it if I don't make a mod, advertise it, and maintain it, none of which has any appeal to me whatsoever (and I don't know how to do it either), as it would increase the scope of the task beyond what I'm prepared to accept. The original 1½-3 month effort was already stretching what I was willing to commit to.

Unfortunately, Charon is very good at saying one thing explicitly, and then later serve up a generous helping of indications that things have changed, without actually, legalistically speaking, saying so. That is a mode of communication I have significant issues understanding, as has been proven, unfortunately.

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