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[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.11)

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10 minutes ago, drages said:

But with the fixes at research tree, i think you should restart when its early.. no need to mess with old files.. research tree is one of the things that needs restart when edited.. sadly..

This is actually not true, its easy to make a file which stays 100% back and forwards compatible, only that it is a LOT of work and it can confuse people working with the mod.

Heres how: You can simply append "Items.Alienalloys" to every research and "(OR)" command and the game will check every research every time you bring back Alien Alloys from a mission.

 

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Heres an example

From:

Researches.MAGprecision(OR)Researches.MAGSTORM

to:

Researches.MAGprecision(AND)Items.Alienalloys(OR)Researches.MAGSTORM(AND)Items.Alienalloys

 

This doesnt change the research in the slightest but keeps compatibility for all versions

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Thanks, it's a bit time consuming but if i could restrict it just to the broken researches that i've already done, the new one should be ok, right?

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Just now, YaK said:

Thanks, it's a bit time consuming but if i could restrict it just to the broken researches that i've already done, the new one should be ok, right?

Right, besides that fiddling with the game files could lead to a non exisitng terror/base attack cd. But otherwise this is exactly what i would have done as well.

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well, i want to confirm the obvious, doors are working now, outdoors are totally blocked while indoors are free to move so aliens can reposition themselves...thanks for this :D, the oly thing i wish is if aliens could be cappable to interact outside doors, this would be lore-friendly and pretty logical (its not like an advanced alien vessel with an outstanding tecnology would have a "PUSH ME" button for humans xD...but i guess this is impossible to code tho :c)

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Long time ago I was a active player of XDivision but things happened and only recently when looking through some games and reminicing on my first XCOM like game which was Xenonaunts I so happened to click on it and noticed on the workshop XDivision.

Lo and behold on how I have spent a great part of the past 24 hours on.

XDivision only seemed liked a expansion pack like version of Xenonaunts with a crapton of new additions. This version however seems like almost a heavy overhaul. Sadly have not gotten that far in but so far great. Have not played with the patch so no detailed feedback yet but I like it.

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Okay, a balance issue logically.  Alien Alloy is used on alien ships.  There must be many kilograms of the stuff on a ship.  Yet we only get a few grams.  The space shuttle had almost 4000 square feet of High Heat capacity tiles (it had a total of 30K square feet of other heat resistant tiles...  That is more than 576,000 cubic inches of the high heat resistant tiles..assuming a tile was only 1 inch thick.  A normal ballistic rifle would have less than 176 cubic inches of metal.  So unless there is a LOT of loss somewhere this means we are getting only a VERY VERY small fraction of the alien alloy to use.  Okay, you might say we lost some during the crash but the ships look almost intact and we recovered more than 50% of the Columbia spread out over many hundreds of square miles of Texas (shuttle that broke up trying to land and it came down from a high altitude).  Right now my mechanics spend time doing nothing waiting for another ship to be brought down so they can BUILD ONE rifle from a scout's alien alloy.  If I knew how I would increase the amount of alien alloy we get from every ship...by 10 times.

 

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2 hours ago, Larry Burstyn said:

Okay, a balance issue logically.  Alien Alloy is used on alien ships.  There must be many kilograms of the stuff on a ship.  Yet we only get a few grams.  The space shuttle had almost 4000 square feet of High Heat capacity tiles (it had a total of 30K square feet of other heat resistant tiles...  That is more than 576,000 cubic inches of the high heat resistant tiles..assuming a tile was only 1 inch thick.  A normal ballistic rifle would have less than 176 cubic inches of metal.  So unless there is a LOT of loss somewhere this means we are getting only a VERY VERY small fraction of the alien alloy to use.  Okay, you might say we lost some during the crash but the ships look almost intact and we recovered more than 50% of the Columbia spread out over many hundreds of square miles of Texas (shuttle that broke up trying to land and it came down from a high altitude).  Right now my mechanics spend time doing nothing waiting for another ship to be brought down so they can BUILD ONE rifle from a scout's alien alloy.  If I knew how I would increase the amount of alien alloy we get from every ship...by 10 times.

 

Heh, this is a standard "non-logical" thing for all X-com genre games. Our biggest problem is to able to make the weapons "hard". I mean as you said, with the alien alloy from a scout size ship, we could make a depot full of weapons and even armours even at least 2-3 vehicles. So this makes alien alloy something only for airplanes.

X-Division handled both weapon-airplane manufacture with disassambe protocols. Armours with alien bodies.. Vehicles, probably with alien drone/tank parts in near future.. so the alien alloy is some kind of limited for you to not manufature everything so fast. If you don't need that why would you go for next ufo anyway?

But yeah it could be balanced somehow.. but how? I don't know yet. Because alien alloy is very hard to count. Ufos and most of tiles in it, gives you an amount of alenium and alien alloy. So we need to count every ufos total alien alloy potantial. It is not impossible, even there was some charts about this from old times as i remember. But as i said, if we do what you suggested as 10x more alien alloy drop, 2-3 ufos will be enough for whole phase..

We got this problem more at little items.. for example grenades.. they are so little but somehow we need to connect them to alien alloy and alenium. For this reason you get multiple grenades and rockets from a manufacture. Another possibility is making the alien alloy drop so much more but still then all the items would need more too..

We are saving the earth with a 10 man group :), so logic is not working everytime when you create a game :)

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6 hours ago, blackwolf said:

well, i want to confirm the obvious, doors are working now, outdoors are totally blocked while indoors are free to move so aliens can reposition themselves...thanks for this :D, the oly thing i wish is if aliens could be cappable to interact outside doors, this would be lore-friendly and pretty logical (its not like an advanced alien vessel with an outstanding tecnology would have a "PUSH ME" button for humans xD...but i guess this is impossible to code tho :c)

It was planned for 0.35 XCE by ilunak but he is gone now.. i mean the only alien openable doors. Maybe solver add it.. dunno..

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could you add the whole patchnaumber to the rar file name? not only XDivision beta Release.rar but XDevision Beta Release 0_99_11.rar or add a small textfile including this information?

would help tremendously verifying using the latest version or not...

 

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10 hours ago, blackwolf said:

well, i want to confirm the obvious, doors are working now, outdoors are totally blocked while indoors are free to move so aliens can reposition themselves...thanks for this :D, the oly thing i wish is if aliens could be cappable to interact outside doors, this would be lore-friendly and pretty logical (its not like an advanced alien vessel with an outstanding tecnology would have a "PUSH ME" button for humans xD...but i guess this is impossible to code tho :c)

Not really, as far as i know XCE added a "can be opened by xenonauts or not" function or so, we could play around with that.

But that was not the problem, the problem was about aggressive AI leaving the UFO. We got a handle on that now, and are playing around with different possibilities right now how we want to have it.

Right now i want to try this version out.

6 hours ago, Larry Burstyn said:

Okay, a balance issue logically.  Alien Alloy is used on alien ships.  There must be many kilograms of the stuff on a ship.  Yet we only get a few grams.  The space shuttle had almost 4000 square feet of High Heat capacity tiles (it had a total of 30K square feet of other heat resistant tiles...  That is more than 576,000 cubic inches of the high heat resistant tiles..assuming a tile was only 1 inch thick.  A normal ballistic rifle would have less than 176 cubic inches of metal.  So unless there is a LOT of loss somewhere this means we are getting only a VERY VERY small fraction of the alien alloy to use.  Okay, you might say we lost some during the crash but the ships look almost intact and we recovered more than 50% of the Columbia spread out over many hundreds of square miles of Texas (shuttle that broke up trying to land and it came down from a high altitude).  Right now my mechanics spend time doing nothing waiting for another ship to be brought down so they can BUILD ONE rifle from a scout's alien alloy.  If I knew how I would increase the amount of alien alloy we get from every ship...by 10 times.

 

I wouldnt approach this with logic. As a matter of fact im goingto start a "How UNLOGICAL xenonauts really is" thread. Starting from teh fact that you only send 8 soldiers to a crashsite and not 162 soldiers and 2 dozent tanks a few helicopters and carpet bombing support.

But lets go down the list. The first porblem with alien alloys is not the quantitiy but that you cant melt it. Every UFO you encounter early on is IMPOSSIBLE for you to make any use of, especially the hull. Its the most "done" part of the UFO.

No, where you really are getting alien alloys from are only the tiny bits from the inside of a UFO. Have you looked into a lightscout ? See how many props there are ? 1 engine, 1 computer, and one crossover connection. Now think about much alloys you can really use from that, like 10%.

The low quantitiy is not about the mass, but the lack of proper manufacture knowledge AND skill. Try to think about the recycle process of a toaster. You dont really get a lot out of it and it will 99% be not pure. Only with incredible amounts of energy it would be possible to seperate all components. Do you have the money for that ? X-Division doesnt spent 1 million on 100% recycling a toaster, thats not cost efficient. You take what you can use mostly and drop the rest.

The alien alloy item is a game balanceing item. Yes, early on you dont get masses of it, but do you disassemble UFOs ? They give you a few alloys and alenium too. Not much and definitely not worth it if you need the money but its an option if you are in a dire need.

2 hours ago, Tankqull said:

could you add the whole patchnaumber to the rar file name? not only XDivision beta Release.rar but XDevision Beta Release 0_99_11.rar or add a small textfile including this information?

would help tremendously verifying using the latest version or not...

 

done

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My Caesans seem to have gotten extremely aggressive for they seem to want to see the whites in my guys eyes before going full auto.

Made my first terror mission go so much smoothly then it could have. Especially with all the added civilians and local force who made everything so much more alive.

Feel like I was in a real battle. Only true threats where the Aliens who unlike the Caesan acted like they were suppose to are tore the locals new assholes and almost got my guys too. The flying saucers(Did not get a research articles after the battle so no idea what they are.) also were a surprise and blast to fight. The pair had a duel with my rocket hunter who was sadly lost but did massive damage to the saucers who were finished off with small arms.

 

My second terror mission a minute ago was not the same experience. HOLY HELL!

I expected to encounter Androns soon so I had me some lasers and everyone has Jackal armor and are pretty good however, medium and FREAKING LARGE drones(Note:Plural) when I only got Jackal armor and phase 1 stuff. Seems rather harsh don't ya think? After several minutes of battle I realized that I was gonna lost everybody because there seemed not was to do enough damage with all the ignore suppression and causes suppression going all around. So I loaded my autosave at the start of my mission and bugged my 8 Xenonaunts +1 tank outa in my chopper there and left the 3 odd dozen people to the 2 dozen aliens to play with.

Strangely there was also what looked like a red(Or green) shirt Caesan there running around. Really curious about that.

 

Edit: Had another terror mission. Had those bloody drones again but this time was during the day and I was able to win although I got nothing except some ballistic weapons along with +$800,000 monthly predicted funds for South America since the first terror and this terror happened there and I succeeded. However poor China is still in the read from the aborted second terror. Found out that Caesan was a "Early Terror Caesan" and a Sebilian that popped up too was the same. Lost two O.G. Xenonaunts which always hurts. I am gonna miss those two.

For the record I am playing on Normal since I did not read anything difficulty recommendations unlike the version I originally played way back.

Edited by lazylegionspark
Discovered new information.

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My first terror mission was like lazylegionspark second mission only I had nothing but Jackal Armor and rifles and shotguns for my 8 men and a hunter AC with the original MG.  One man had a Lasar rifle Mk 1.  That's what I had after harvesting alien alloy from 8 or so scouts--had two scouts where I got NO Alien Alloy.  I did what he did...paid the price in lost prestige.  My second terror mission was even worse.  ONE morph creature killed all my men and did not take any damage from all my weapons (still only had one Lasar Rifle MK 1 as no scouts had shown up between the two terror missions).  At this point I quit deleted all my save games and decided I would modify the alien ships to give more alien alloy--IF I could figure out how to do that for non-fighters.

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So alien alloy is a problem for you about manufacturing new weapons? Hmm i will look for that.

The basic thing u can do for more alien allow, you can go to tiles folder and give to alien ufo cores some of them from specte files.

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11 minutes ago, drages said:

So alien alloy is a problem for you about manufacturing new weapons? Hmm i will look for that.

The basic thing u can do for more alien allow, you can go to tiles folder and give to alien ufo cores some of them from specte files.

It is not a problem for me. Yes I don't have enough alloys to manufacturing EVERYTHING too. But I think that is how it should be. You have to choose what do you need most.

Edited by morr

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yeah,IMHO allien alloys are waaaaaaaaay to low, it feels more like a punish than a reward assault any p-1 and early p2 ufos because of this, i think drages was right , you should increase the amount of AA droped by ufos and double (maybe triple?)  the amount of AA needed for "heavier-bigger" projects like planes/tanks/toasters/cocacola machine dispensers and stuff like that :p.

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8 hours ago, lazylegionspark said:

For the record I am playing on Normal since I did not read anything difficulty recommendations unlike the version I originally played way back.

OP:

Quote

Q: I'm fairly new to XCom. What difficulty should I start with?
A: Normal.

Q: I'm an XCOM veteran. What difficulty should I start with?
A: Normal.

Q: But I'm really awesome at -- 
A: Sorry to interrupt, but just start with Normal. We don't have easy difficulties in this mod that hold your hand while you learn the ropes and we've removed every bit of code we can find that cheats for the player on the lower difficulties. It's going to be hard. The other difficulties are just harder versions of Normal; feel free to move up when you get a handle on all the new mechanics.

AND

Q: Say what? Ten HP Outsiders with regeneration in the first downed UFO mission? I love all the new XCOM options but don't like the difficulty. Why did you make a mod that is so hard?

A: This mod was made by people who loved the vanilla game and saw lots of opportunities within the engine for much deeper strategic and tactical play and a greater variety of problems to throw at the player. When someone tells us it is too hard, there might be any of three things going on:
 

The player hasn't adapted to the changes in the mod and expects their suboptimal strategies to succeed (we believe this is the case with outsiders). ( X-Division: Some tutorials will come but they are not upo yet, so you have to rely on your instincts)
 

The player's definition of fun is different from ours; they expect the game to provide them easier situations, make solutions more readily available or be geared to provide the illusion of challenge but actually make it pretty easy to win. In this case the player should play an easier difficulty setting and/or use the Cinematic Mode Second Wave option, which gives accuracy bonuses to both XCOM troops and aircraft. They player can also mod Long War to their personal preferences or play another mod. Long War isn't for everyone.
 

The mod really is unreasonably hard (or bugged in a way that makes it too hard) and should be changed. Specific feedback about the situation and how you attempted to address helps us; general complaints about difficulty really won't induce us to make any changes.

This is my oppinion as well. Some help will be up soon, if we can make it, but dont expect anything yet. Its hard and X-Division is even harder.

I had the same problem with XCOM, then beaglerush introduced me to new concepts. We hope we can do something similar.

 

7 hours ago, Larry Burstyn said:

My first terror mission was like lazylegionspark second mission only I had nothing but Jackal Armor and rifles and shotguns for my 8 men and a hunter AC with the original MG.  One man had a Lasar rifle Mk 1.  That's what I had after harvesting alien alloy from 8 or so scouts--had two scouts where I got NO Alien Alloy.  I did what he did...paid the price in lost prestige.  My second terror mission was even worse.  ONE morph creature killed all my men and did not take any damage from all my weapons (still only had one Lasar Rifle MK 1 as no scouts had shown up between the two terror missions).  At this point I quit deleted all my save games and decided I would modify the alien ships to give more alien alloy--IF I could figure out how to do that for non-fighters.

Multiple things

1. I think terror sites happen way too early. I had my game let them show up at 200 ATP but Drages said he wanted to have it at its original value, 100 ATP, which is around 45 days into the campaign.

2. Yes androns are incredibly harder to beat than other races, I pointed that out during development. We are still working on it.

Well not now, now is HOLIDAY SEASON, but sometime later.

3. No scouts show up during 2 terror missions ? Then it looks like you have the zero cd bug. The cd is 30 days for terror and 40 for base attack missions. This cause for this is propably the change files.

4. Alien alloy shortage: I cant really understand the shortage of alien alloys at all. Heres my oppinion:

3 hours ago, morr said:
3 hours ago, drages said:

So alien alloy is a problem for you about manufacturing new weapons? Hmm i will look for that.

The basic thing u can do for more alien allow, you can go to tiles folder and give to alien ufo cores some of them from specte files.

It is not a problem for me. Yes I don't have enough alloys to manufacturing EVERYTHING too. But I think that is how it should be. You have to choose what do you need most.

Its good somebody noticed that.

Heres what my games look like: 3 bases, 2 dropships, and every continent covered from day 1. Then you play from there. I sometimes go for 4 crashsites during one wave when i can manage to. This also means im sometimes fighting in the dark which only became problematic in phase 2.

If you produce too much grenades you wont have them for the weapons, 5 alenium grenades is much, use them when the situatipn calls for it. Same goes for aircraft missiles and torpdedos, if you mass produce them than you are on a shortage on everything else. This is the early game. Scouts and lightscouts dont carry masses of alloys with them. Thats the landing ship. Get one and you will be rich, get none and you will literally have 3 other options you can focus on.

If you want more alloys get more crashsites. If you get all crashsites than thats literally all you have. This game was designed for a shortage of EVERYTHING :).

 

Here comes the rant

I think its funny if you say that you want masses of alloys when you´ve only been fighting against lightscout, scout, corvette and bombercorvettes yet. Those aint carry much. Those are not transport ships. Being on a shortage of items is part of the challenge. I would say find ways to increase your alloy income instead of cheating them in.

 

 

I think the main problem here is simply that terror sites happen too early, and im all on your side on this.

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I used the on shootdown line in Aircraft.xml to increase alloy.....big mistake cause now when I shoot down a scout and send my troops to capture it...I get the shootdown bonus TWICE.  I will go back to the original aircraft.xml and try the tiles folder.  I only doubled the amount of alloy as I agree that huge amounts of alloy would be too much.

 

What is the zero cd bug?  How to get rid of it.  BTW I've notice that I'm not getting a large number of scouts (any class).  Sometimes I go almost a month without seeing a wave of scouts.  And sometimes the wave only includes one scout (not sure about the part of the world that i don't cover due to lack of money to build bases--but one scout could explain all the reports I get of UFO activity.).  Three bases is how I started the latest go thru.  Now another start after going back to original aircraft.xml and trying to modify the alloy amount in the tiles folder.  I have not modified the amount of Alenium (spelling) as I think that should be small due to it's statistics.

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10 minutes ago, Larry Burstyn said:

What is the zero cd bug?  How to get rid of it.  BTW I've notice that I'm not getting a large number of scouts (any class).  Sometimes I go almost a month without seeing a wave of scouts.  And sometimes the wave only includes one scout (not sure about the part of the world that i don't cover due to lack of money to build bases--but one scout could explain all the reports I get of UFO activity.).  Three bases is how I started the latest go thru.  Now another start after going back to original aircraft.xml and trying to modify the alloy amount in the tiles folder.  I have not modified the amount of Alenium (spelling) as I think that should be small due to it's statistics.

The 0 cd bug appears to be caused by changing files while a game is in progress. I encountered it over the past week, but i was constantly changing files to fix the bugs i reported.

In theory starting a new game (and not changing any files) should resolve that issue. Charon has already stated that the cd (cooldown) for terrors is 30 days and base assaults is 40 days.

With regards to your not enough money or alloys issue, i'm not sure i understand. You should start with 8 million dollars and can easily set up 3-5 bases with that (ok, maintaining them will require lots of successful ground missions, but hey you cant have it all easy), and i never really had an issue with alloys (ballistic cores on the other hand i was always short on :p )

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5 hours ago, Charon said:

I think the main problem here is simply that terror sites happen too early, and im all on your side on this.

Terror site is the symbol of invasion. This is the first time you feel that they hit hard and merciless. There is no reason to terrorize the planet after 2 months for aliens.

I could make it even a day one terror attack because the earth will know the aliens from those attacks already.. but nuking a street because there is 10-15 aliens is a lame thing, why would aliens let you nuke a invasion sight. Probably we will change it for much more reasonable thing. Bombardment is lame too..we need to find any other things for them.

Maybe you should able to win that terror attacks, it's not absurd.. you can't win anything against an alien thread at day 1 or 30..

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53 minutes ago, drages said:
6 hours ago, Charon said:

I think the main problem here is simply that terror sites happen too early, and im all on your side on this.

Terror site is the symbol of invasion. This is the first time you feel that they hit hard and merciless. There is no reason to terrorize the planet after 2 months for aliens.

I could make it even a day one terror attack because the earth will know the aliens from those attacks already.. but nuking a street because there is 10-15 aliens is a lame thing, why would aliens let you nuke a invasion sight. Probably we will change it for much more reasonable thing. Bombardment is lame too..we need to find any other things for them.

Maybe you should able to win that terror attacks, it's not absurd.. you can't win anything against an alien thread at day 1 or 30..

Exactly my words, not everything is meant to be won.

The other side of this is the loss of continents early on puts player at a disadvantage which he can NEVER recover from. One country gone is one country gone. All we need now would be recoverable continents and it would not only be the utmost perfect solution but also increase the richness of the game by 10 times. Haveing the strategic option to recover countries would be makeing early loses of continents acceptable if you can pull it back later on.

Another note, I´ve carefully set the terror penalty to something which for 90% of all countries wont be a one hit killer, especially if you keep UFOS in check. This means 3 terror sites lost over 3 different countries is hard but its recoverable. As long as you dont lose countries everything is actually recoverable. This "loseing country" thing is actually a game mechanic which is hard to accept because it cuts you off from future income in that region FOREVER.

I would change it if i could but maybe we can make a workaround or something.

 

1 hour ago, sfarrelly said:

With regards to your not enough money or alloys issue, i'm not sure i understand. You should start with 8 million dollars and can easily set up 3-5 bases with that (ok, maintaining them will require lots of successful ground missions, but hey you cant have it all easy), and i never really had an issue with alloys (ballistic cores on the other hand i was always short on :p )

Im still not happy with the manufacture set up for weapons.

The problem lies here: You only have the cores to produce mk2 weapons, if mk3 weapons get available they cost the same amount of cores + alenium, which means even if you get the tech they are hard to produce. mk3 weapons are quite good so its not a bug but rather a feature, but i still would like to change it, since im not totally happy with it

mk1 weapons only need alloys ... this is ok because i want to have a weapon branch mass produceable if you have the raw materials available

mk2 weeapons need cores additionally ... thats perfect too

mk3 weapons needs alenium additionally ... thats ok too

The problem starts when you put the cores from mk2 and mk3 needed together. Since mk3 barely need more ressources but deliver a better punch it might be advisable to save cores from mk2 production for mk3 production, since i dont want mk3 weapons to be mass produceable. If i put it together with the fact that the next wave produces the double amount of cores its also pretty reasonable that you could mass produce mk3 weapons from the former wave with the additional cores.from the current wave. But yes, mk2 and mk3 are not weapons which should be mass produced in its current phase.

 

Maybe its perfect after all ... .

 

EDIT: Im early in Phase 2 and im bathing in alloys and alenium. Ill give you the exact numbers later.

Edited by Charon

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