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[1.65/X.CE V0.35.0] X-Division 1.00 Beta (1.00.10)

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10 minutes ago, Marandor1 said:

Airgame is mainly about reaction and quickness

Respectfully declining, but the airgame is anything but about reaction and quickness.

In the shown airfight against a Terror Battleship i spend 45 out of 100 minutes having to design a strategy, building the correct aircraft weapons and having to build some additional aircraft, especially used for THAT fight, and THAT strategy: https://youtu.be/9d3piT0zxhg

 

Since you can stop the game literally anytime, any second, the skills of reaction and quickness are virtually completely taken out of the equation, as you literally can just pause the game for however long you want. The only quickness skill you might have is the skill on how fast you can press the space bar AKA how fast can your brain tell you fingers to press a button.

The UFO vs xenonaut aircraft functions much like rock paper scissor. Bomber aircraft beat big UFOs which beat interceptor which beat alien interceptor which beat bomber and hybrid aircraft which beat drone UFOs which beat Bomber.

Aircraft Rock Paper Scissor.png

So before you even start the fight you need detailed matchup knowledge. After that your experience determines what kind of aircraft weapons you can EFFECTIVELY use in combat. After that you technology determines what kind of weaponry is available, and after that your resources determine what kind of weaponry you can build.

When everything is set you look at your weaponry, make an estimated guess of what needs to be where, and with what squadron you expect to take down what kind of UFO. You estimate bases and country in danger and fly your aircraft where it is needed, or where you expect most UFO activity from.

When the wave comes your skills in aircombat ( not quickness or reaction, but a battle plan as i show in my videos ) and your strategy earlier deviced will determine which kind of UFOs you will be able to shoot down.

The downed UFOs represent a choice of the missions you can take on at the moment and the success of Ground Combat missions again determine what kind of technology and resources you have available to better shoot down UFOs next. And the circle continues, its the diablo principle, get better loot to be stronger to get better loot to be stronger to get better loot.

The airgame is about creativity, freedom of expression ( since there are so many aircraft and weapon options available for the same task), geopolitical, strategic and tactical decisions, about success and mistakes, about oversights and resource management.

You can say that you dont like it, or dont want to try it, but dont compare it to trash you have played 30 years ago. This here is the real deal.

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10 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

Everyone has his game style he likes.

I agree, as it should be, that is what i meant by "just kidding".

 

10 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

My favorite games offer turn based combat. I want to use my brain and my creativity for winning. I want to develop a strategy and like to think about alternatives. In my opinion XD ground combat is gigantic in that part.

I agrre even more with this. The only games I play are Original X-Com/Openxcom and Master of Orion 2, and now Xenonauts/X-Division, that has the promising potential of becoming a member of my small and very exclusive klub of games I conteniu to play.

 

10 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

Airgame is mainly about reaction and quickness

I do not agree with this. The airgame is not turnbased (obviesly), but it is as turnbased as it can get without actually being it, and the improved airgame adds lots of tactical aspects to it, battle and resource wise. The only reaction and quickness you need is for the spacebar for pausing/unpausing.

10 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

Airgame is mainly about reaction and quickness - things I liked in games around 30 years ago

Star Control 2 immediatly comes to mind. Anyone else?

 

10 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

No offense for people who really like the airgame - it's just not my thing

No offense taking my friend:), everyone has there own preferences.

Edited by Svinedrengen

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11 hours ago, Mattes98 said:

Alright, I'm back again.

This time, I found a way to Softlock the game! Its very simple and I believe it is caused by the facehugger trying to do a reflex attack(Or possibly the zombie right behind him arguing about who shoots him first).

STR:

Load up Save.

Select Soldier Pietro Rossi.

Shoot the Facehugger next to him. The game will now softlock and you are unable to do anything besides Exiting the game.

216.F17.sav

Not to rush anything, just making sure someone noticed( @Charon @Solver ) . This, however, can be pushed on the long bench as it didn't stop me from progressing the terror mission. In fact, not trying to kill that facehugger immediately enabled me to take down both praetorians(or in whatever way this is spelled correctly), and thus avoiding losses.

 

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1 minute ago, Mattes98 said:

Not to rush anything, just making sure someone noticed( @Charon @Solver ) . This, however, can be pushed on the long bench as it didn't stop me from progressing the terror mission. In fact, not trying to kill that facehugger immediately enabled me to take down both praetorians(or in whatever way this is spelled correctly), and thus avoiding losses.

This is a known reloading bug. Melee Reaction will freeze the game. It can be avoided by not giving aliens that opportunity.

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3 minutes ago, Charon said:

This is a known reloading bug. Melee Reaction will freeze the game. It can be avoided by not giving aliens that opportunity.

Alright, Thanks for the intel. Is there something like a bugtracker where known bugs are listet? The first page just says something about base assaults.

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4 minutes ago, Mattes98 said:

Alright, Thanks for the intel. Is there something like a bugtracker where known bugs are listet? The first page just says something about base assaults.

Well, @Solver already found your smoking gun, so i guess he will go into predator hunting mode soon.

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On 3/2/2018 at 10:51 PM, Charon said:

Sure, you can do everything. If you break the game depends on whether you code it correctly.

Right, so I have just succesfully added the Original X-Com dogfight music, to give some sound variarity but mostly because I have a soft spot for Original X-Com music/sounds. My thanks goes to Charon for giving me the "courage" to change/add files myself. Now who said that you can not teach old dogs some new tricks:).

If anyone else is interestet, I have attached the sound file.

Air Combat 1.ogg

Edited by Svinedrengen
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@SvinedrengenI think the aircombat music there is excellent, although i think the Xenonauts ones are just unmatched for the game. You might want to make a fade in and fade out though, as the ending and beginning is a bit abrupt. I suggest audacity for it.

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1 hour ago, Charon said:

I think the aircombat music there is excellent, although i think the Xenonauts ones are just unmatched for the game.

I really like the Xenonauts aircombat music, that is why I only added the X-Com file instead of replacing it. Although it is completly random which one the game chooses to play, on the funny side that also makes you think about which music it will play, and by doing this it adds one more "tactical" aspect before entering the airgame... just kidding about the last part:D.

 

1 hour ago, Charon said:

You might want to make a fade in and fade out though, as the ending and beginning is a bit abrupt.

Ja I noticed that to, good idea.

 

I have also changed the UFO door sound and the Physic attack sound back to the original X-Com. I do not like the Xenonauts Psychic attack sound that much. I have attached those files her. Remember to copy the files you want to replace, in case you want to change it back.

alien_psychic_attack.ogg

alien_door.ogg

Edited by Svinedrengen

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13 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

I do not agree with this. The airgame is not turnbased (obviesly), but it is as turnbased as it can get without actually being it, and the improved airgame adds lots of tactical aspects to it, battle and resource wise. The only reaction and quickness you need is for the spacebar for pausing/unpausing.

I don't think so. You have to evade at the right moment. You have to time your attacks. You have to make turns at the right moment.

Sure, you can (and you have to) hit space, do the needed action (hit the right key) and hit space again. But really .. hitting space a few times every second to time all needed actions right and to do this for a few minutes - sorry, as said, I don't like it at all.

You are totally correctly, "is as turnbased as it can get without actually being it", but for me this doesn't fit.

Just an example: 2 weeks ago I tried a fight against a phase 3 terror UFO. After ~30 seconds the escort was down. 2 minutes later I had the UFO down to 15%. Each torpedo hit for ~4% damage. So I "only" needed about 25 successful hits. I knew exactly what I had to do but then I hit the turn key to late, probably only for a fraction of a second  ... busted.

The simple problem: it is not enough to know, what you have to do. You also have to manage to perform the needed actions. This is a problem, which never happens in turn based ground combat.

 

But well, we probably got offtopic here.

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3 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

 got offtopic here.

True, my appoligies sorry. 

And I do understand your point of view, like you said "everyone has his game style he likes". 

Edited by Svinedrengen

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This time i caught a bigger fishy, almost mothership...hehe;) @Charon
I recommend watch planning phase (geo) at an increased speed, due to Ironman does not forgive mistakes, necessary to carefully think through each mission for each craft.
This was really HUGE wave. Almost 1.2mil only by hunters. :cash register sound:
New armaments, new tactics.
Enjoy!

 

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6 hours ago, Marandor1 said:

The simple problem: it is not enough to know, what you have to do. You also have to manage to perform the needed actions. This is a problem, which never happens in turn based ground combat.

True dat, i guess we can cross this off the list than.

I was suggesting making you a bot which automatically presses the space bar every 0.5 second. Making it as close to a turn based game as possible, but ALAS i can see why you dont like the aircombat.

Although i think the aircombat goes far deeper than people give it credit for.

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On 3/4/2018 at 6:52 PM, varangos said:

so i assault  a base

-2nd round 6 wraiths teleport inside the starting room and kill 7 of my men

-next round doors open and ceasans kill my tank and my last man.

the same happened with the other races,with the lizards i get team wipe out by the second round as the bullsomething come in and turn them to zombies.

and this is just an outpost.

 

If Wraiths are in the room and they shoot that means you did it completely wrong at the previous turn(s). If there are six of them it is a game over.

How you should begin:

If there is one door in the starting room you are lucky. If there are two it is a bit worse.

You must of course make sure your soldiers have weapons adequate to the phase you are at.

You must not wait too long when the base first appears on the map.

Placement phase:

Try to block one door with the tank so that its front faces the door.

Place your assault soldiers with shotguns (you MUST have some) close (not too close) to the second door. Place others soldiers in the corners of the starting room so that they look at the second door as well (especially a sniper).

End of turn.

Your first actual turn:

DO NOTHING. Or:

If you have some poisonous or stunning or fire grenades, you can open the second door and throw one or two to block the entrance.

End of first turn.

 

Aliens first turn:

Your soldiers kill with reaction fire anybody who tries to enter the room at the second door.

The tank should keep anybody to enter through the first door.

 

Your second turn:

Let some soldier LOOK AROUND to make sure there are not any Wraiths hiding after aliens first turn. Wraiths cannot teleport and shoot both at one turn. They teleport somewhere where your soldiers are not looking at the moment. After that they stay and pray that you don't turn around during your next turn :-)

If there are some Wraiths in the room try to kill them with heavy weapon soldiers. If they are tough let the others shoot at the Wraiths as well but try not to use assaults and soldiers with good reaction. They can help with the aliens next turn.

Don't forget about your tank! It can do 1-2 shots with good result as well.

Making some smoke in the room at the end of the turn is also not a bad idea.

Again if you have some poisonous or stunning or fire grenades, you can open the second door and throw one or two to block the entrance.

End of the second turn.

 

The aliens second turn:

Some more Wraiths may teleport

Ceasans may open the first door and shoot at your tank. If they destroy it its wreckage will block the first entrance. Make sure that it doesn't happen with the single door of the room. Move your tank a little back if necessary. It may be more attractive for enemies than your soldiers if it stays at the front.

Ceasans and ugly animals may try to enter the room through the second door. Your reaction fire should stop some of them.

 

Try to continue in such a way.

DON'T RUSH for 5 turns minimum. Make sure the most impatient enemies have come to die.

Don't forget to look around.

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@Community

What about making shields equiptable for the Exoskelett armour class ?

EDIT: The code doesnt allow it.

Edited by Charon

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Question.

Can someone please explain to me when we have all these awesome new weapons, why are there not different types of ammo (Armor piercing, explosive etc) for them too? It seems very strange this was not thought of, considering everything else that is in X-Division. Maybe it could not be implemented? I am only asking because I do not find it logical. I can not see any reason why it should not be in the game.

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6 hours ago, Svinedrengen said:

Question.

Can someone please explain to me when we have all these awesome new weapons, why are there not different types of ammo (Armor piercing, explosive etc) for them too? It seems very strange this was not thought of, considering everything else that is in X-Division. Maybe it could not be implemented? I am only asking because I do not find it logical. I can not see any reason why it should not be in the game.

I believe it because damage is only ever evaluated on the weapons base dmg +- mitigation/resistance, etc... Having Ammo do additional dmg would either be impossible or require lots and lots of work.

Btw @Charon, is it intentional that aliens are able to shoot seven times with weapons that have six shots in the magazine?

Edited by Mattes98
spelling .______. again

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6 minutes ago, Charon said:

@Mattes98 #alienammo what do you think infiniteAlienAmmo="1" means ?

Sure, that makes sense. But could things be adjusted to make aliens not, uhm, "cheat"? Like, increasing TU cost? Or would that make things to easy?

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5 minutes ago, Mattes98 said:

Sure, that makes sense. But could things be adjusted to make aliens not, uhm, "cheat"? Like, increasing TU cost? Or would that make things to easy?

How do aliens cheat, other than not having to reload ?

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1 minute ago, Charon said:

How do aliens cheat, other than not having to reload ?

You see, I quite often have occurences of

"Hey look, im standing quite far away from this ceasan with a heavy phazer. And I have A shield! I'm safe facing this enemy since I cant move an further away or out of sight!"

*Ceasan shoots seven times, destroying the shield, supressing the soldier, hitting him once for 20, once for 30, once for 50 and again with the seventh shot for another 20 dmg.*

*Soldier ist dies, everyone panics and dies right after that because there is no more cover.*

This happens far too often. Soldiers with more than a 100HP and a shield are still subject to "I cant see the enemy that killed me, but he just hit three shots in two bursts and a snap shot and thus i will bleed out in the next turn because im paniced" kinda situations. I will not debate the critical hit thing. I can live with a loss or two. But in my view firing seven shots from a single weapon makes that gun act like a machine gun, regardless wether its a heavy phazer, a ballistic pistol or flamer. Just my opinion though as to how that makes aliens "cheat".

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1 minute ago, Mattes98 said:

You see, I quite often have occurences of

"Hey look, im standing quite far away from this ceasan with a heavy phazer. And I have A shield! I'm safe facing this enemy since I cant move an further away or out of sight!"

*Ceasan shoots seven times, destroying the shield, supressing the soldier, hitting him once for 20, once for 30, once for 50 and again with the seventh shot for another 20 dmg.*

*Soldier ist dies, everyone panics and dies right after that because there is no more cover.*

This happens far too often. Soldiers with more than a 100HP and a shield are still subject to "I cant see the enemy that killed me, but he just hit three shots in two bursts and a snap shot and thus i will bleed out in the next turn because im paniced" kinda situations. I will not debate the critical hit thing. I can live with a loss or two. But in my view firing seven shots from a single weapon makes that gun act like a machine gun, regardless wether its a heavy phazer, a ballistic pistol or flamer. Just my opinion though as to how that makes aliens "cheat".

Its funny, but i never had this situation. In over 1000+ hours i never had a single occurence of that situation. Are you telling me you ran up to a non suppressed unit, parked in less than 10 tiles away and think you are safe  with a shield ?

I just think your assumptions are flawed, here let me quote from the advice that shows up on loading:

<Tip>Do not stay in an aliens Line of Sight! Do not trust cover!</Tip>

There are so many things wrong here.

  1. Heavy Phazer is a machine gun equivalent
  2. Some weapons have the isheavy attribute, reducing their accuracy by 90% as soon as they move a tile. This means not making an alien move increases the accuracy by 90%. Guess why they hit.
  3. If you dont give aliens a retreat option, AKA have sight of all places they could retreat to ( and thuse are at a disadvantage ), they get very aggressive. What would you do if you were surrounded without any hiding place ? If the only option is fighting, you will do that to your best of ability
  4. A normal machine gun can fire 12 shots wiht 90% tu. A rifle fires 7 with 94% tu. How is that cheating ?

 

Dont worry, you are not the first person to whine about the difficulty of X-Division, but i havent seen a single valid argument yet.

I also agree on the whoever shots first is at an advanatage, and the lack of proper defense tools to advance safely. While i think that is highly realistic and makes for a very interesting gameplay, i also acknowledge the situation that we could do more in that regards, hence the suggestion of making heavy armour being capable of carrying shields ontop. Unfortunately the code doesnt allow it, apart from the fact that we dont have any sprites for that.

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7 minutes ago, Charon said:

<Tip>Do not stay in an aliens Line of Sight! Do not trust cover!</Tip>

Yes, I noticed that this, in many situations is not applicable. Say, for instance, you have to advance over an open field. No cover, no LOS-Blockers, whatsoever. The alien will always win because apparently its eyes are better adapted to the general curvature and atmosphere of earth than humans. Yes, there are sight enhancers and stuff like that, and I dont think the sight range is op. But the alien might just decide to start shooting at max range and suppress everything before xenonauts in normal standard combat suits can even see them. Because the aliens are all the way up to 4 Tiles ahead in terms of sight range. Which leads to bs situations like exiting the Chinook, stepping out to the side and getting shot and killed by an alien that you cant even see. But thats not the point.

 

15 minutes ago, Charon said:

Heavy Phazer is a machine gun equivalent

That I didnt know.

 

17 minutes ago, Charon said:

Some weapons have the isheavy attribute, reducing their accuracy by 90% as soon as they move a tile. This means not making an alien move increases the accuracy by 90%. Guess why they hit.

WAT.

Alright, good to know.

25 minutes ago, Charon said:

If you dont give aliens a retreat option, AKA have sight of all places they could retreat to ( and thuse are at a disadvantage ), they get very aggressive. What would you do if you were surrounded without any hiding place ? If the only option is fighting, you will do that to your best of ability

Yes, I'm talking aliens in out in the open with no flanking options for me. Though I had one occurence of an alien just in sightrange firing 7 times with a flamer, supressing and injuring a soldier, and then move out of sight range.

 

28 minutes ago, Charon said:

A normal machine gun can fire 12 shots wiht 90% tu. A rifle fires 7 with 94% tu. How is that cheating ?

Well, my simple logic issue is just that they have six shots in one clip. Burst two times with, say, a lighting rifle, and their shots should be depleted/gun needs to cool down/whatever since they dont need to reload. No problems.

But an alien can also use that lightning rifle, and have the improbable situation of always having a target for five turns. By standing still, a normal human soldier could, assuming the weapon reloads itself every turn, fire 30 rounds. An alien could fire 35. Dafuq? My suggestion is, either make burst fire use 45% TU and snap shots use, like 12%, or give the guns 7 rounds per clip. In my humble opinion, weapons should behave the same for everyone. Thats my only point.

39 minutes ago, Charon said:

Dont worry, you are not the first person to whine about the difficulty of X-Division, but i havent seen a single valid argument yet.

I'm not whining :c  Just wondering. And honestly, I really like the difficulty of this mod. And damn, I love the additions.

 

41 minutes ago, Charon said:

I also agree on the whoever shots first is at an advanatage, and the lack of proper defense tools to advance safely. While i think that is highly realistic and makes for a very interesting gameplay, i also acknowledge the situation that we could do more in that regards, hence the suggestion of making heavy armour being capable of carrying shields ontop. Unfortunately the code doesnt allow it, apart from the fact that we dont have any sprites for that.

All I need is a shield that can take a few more hits from alien weapons. But I guess I'll have to "politely ask" some more aliens to get that tech.

Anyway, I really appreciate the long and considerate answer and hope I delivered some valid arguments this time. Further, thanks for the informations provided.

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37 minutes ago, Mattes98 said:

Well, my simple logic issue is just that they have six shots in one clip.

What makes you think clipsize="6" is for aliens ?

The situation is that the alien weapiens have unlimited ammo, as their ammo pack simply needs a simple tap with the right configuration and it resets the ammo count. Something which just needs an alien hand to do and requires virtually no tu. Think about it like genetic authorisation, the weapon refuses to operate without the correct authorisation. It still has the 6 ammo count authorisation intervall in case something out of the ordinary happens you still have available 6 shots before you might give away that you are not the correct weapon holder. This is also the reason why aliens only carry mostly 1 additional ammo. In case the first ammo pack in the weapon malfunctions ( we are on the battlefield remember, anything can go wrong ) but not because of ammo count.

The clipsize is only for human hands, as they are not authorised personel handling an alien weapon. This is why you reload with another clip, because the first one refuses to work beyond the intervall.

 

Im sry that nothing of that is in the Xpedia, but if nobody writes it, nobody will know about it.

 

EDIT: I also appreciate the exchange of thought, but there is little we have not thought about, and thuse your reasoning is missing a lot of data :). Come in and see the world of X-Division :).

Edited by Charon
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