HOW are you supposed to survive on Veteran??

[Jerry]

Hi. New player here. Never played any XCOM/UFO Defense game ever and after having seen a Let's Play by Unit Lost a year ago I jumped in on Veteran difficulty. I know about creating another base immedietly but that never gets up and running so screw that....

Thing is, I get friggin murdered all the time....

I get out of the ship, trying to scout around. Aliens turn, this blue shot comes from outside my viewing range and kills one of my soldiers immedietly....Get shieldguy a bit closer, kneels him and put Rifledude behind. Aliens kill shield dude and I miss everything....what....? I move a dude and a Ceasan reactionshot kills that dude....

I've restarted 3(!) times already!! Fourth try.

First or second mission. Sebilians (regenerating lizards) snipe me from half a screen away. Shielddude dies (ofcourse....) and the two guys that shoot him don't kill him....Mr.Lizard regenerates health and kills me....:thumbs up:

I throw grenades and shoot and finally kills him. Only lost half my squad so far and have killed ONE goddamn lizard....

Move north towards farmhouse, blue shot from window kills another soldier (ofcourse....who the FUCK is surprised?? Not me!).

This time, I move the two remaining guys (cause everybody else frigging DIED!) and reserve TUs for 'snap shot' since that's what Unit Lost did and it kinda worked. I throw grenades and think I kill FarmLizard and move in from the left....HI FarmLizard! He runs up to 2nd floor. Guy outside keeps grenading him (is it 3 or 4 grenades now?) and moves to the right to enter the farmhouse. Now I reserve TUs so FarmLizard don't engage anymore! Miild success.

I hide in a corner and look outwards. Mr FarmLizard pops out adjasent to me!! I kill him.

Attack the UFO from two sides. I hide behind a little bush and take shots at him. After a few rounds he kills me with his longrange shots....

The last soldier died because of computercheating. I had 100% blockchance. Computer stood still, shot and killed me....what....?

Summary: 3/6 aliens killed

8/8 Xenonauts killed

2/2 civilians killed

My tactic of scouting around and spreading my soldiers in groups of 3 or 4 doesn't seem to work. As soon as I get a mic, I'll show you how hard I fail.

What are the differences between the difficulty lvls except what the game tells you? Enemies do less damage and can take less damage too?

I understand if no one wants to play this and everybody plays XCOM: EU/EW. I'm starting to regret buying Xenonauts if it's gonna be this impossible.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Jerry
Adding stuff

[llunak]

Hi. New player here. Never played any XCOM/UFO Defense game ever and after having seen a Let's Play by Unit Lost a year ago I jumped in on Veteran difficulty.

People generally survive the game by thinking about what they do, paying attention, and learning from their mistakes. For example, all the difficulty levels have their descriptions, and you clearly selected an inappropriate one 4 times in a row despite it not working out for you at all.

Barring this and the fact you apparently wrote this while upset, there does not seem to be anything unusual in the rest of the post, so let's ignore it.

[Jerry]

People generally survive the game by thinking about what they do, paying attention, and learning from their mistakes. For example, all the difficulty levels have their descriptions, and you clearly selected an inappropriate one 4 times in a row despite it not working out for you at all.

But the thing is, I DID think about what I was doing. My idea was to quickly scout out the map and encircle them. That didn't work cause as soon as they saw me, they fired (and killed me).

Paying attention, I don't know what I can change there. I reada about the lizards haveing poor eyesight which I interpreted as 'shortrange' but that was completely untrue....

I'm not sure what I can learn from my mistakes since I don't know WHAT I did wrong. Like I was running around scouting and got killed. If that's wrong then it means I have to use only shieldguys to scout and that would take forever! Scout car wasn't done at that time. I do have an aggressive playstyle. Sitting back and waiting is not my thing.

I even had a balanced team. 2 Rifles, 1 Assault, 1 Heavy, 2 Shieldguys and 2 Snipers.

It's like I'm missing something basic here. It feels like RNG though. Sometimes the aliens miss and everythings fine. Sometimes they hit and I die immedietly.

I guess I have to watch some experts on YouTube.

[MasterZelgadis]

I understand if no one wants to play this and everybody plays XCOM: EU/EW. I'm starting to regret buying Xenonauts if it's gonna be this impossible.

Why don't you choose an easier difficulty then? You said you didn't play X-Com, this game is based on X-Com. And in X-Com this was kinda normal. The enemies are aliens capable of travelling space and invading a 1970s earth. Of course it is unfair. You have to adapt.

Scouting too fast is deadly, keep your guys together to take down enemies with multiple guys, in case one (or two or x) miss their shots. Use cover. And don't take night missions. Your vision is reduced at night, but the aliens' isn't. Use heavy machine guns and stun grenades to suppress and use smoke to block line of sight. Not meaning to offend you, but from what I read it seems you are trying to play ArmA the Call of Duty style. Won't work.

Ah, and could you provide us with a source from where you have the information, that no one is playing this?

And did you consider, that maybe the pure existence of mods which make the game even harder could proof that the mistake is on your side rather than on the game's side?

Edited January 21, 2016 by MasterZelgadis

[Chris]

The most common issue for new players is not right-clicking to add accuracy to their shots; using only low-accuracy shots will kill you pretty quick.

If you're not making that mistake, maybe watch a Youtuber like Scott Manley or something, I think he's got a pretty good series on Xenonauts. The game isn't that hard on veteran if you know what you're doing, but maybe it'll only be obvious what you're doing wrong when you see someone play a mission "properly".

[Jerry]

Why don't you choose an easier difficulty then? You said you didn't play X-Com, this game is based on X-Com. And in X-Com this was kinda normal. The enemies are aliens capable of travelling space and invading a 1970s earth. Of course it is unfair. You have to adapt.

Scouting too fast is deadly, keep your guys together to take down enemies with multiple guys, in case one (or two or x) miss their shots. Use cover. And don't take night missions. Your vision is reduced at night, but the aliens' isn't. Use heavy machine guns and stun grenades to suppress and use smoke to block line of sight. Not meaning to offend you, but from what I read it seems you are trying to play ArmA the Call of Duty style. Won't work.

Ah, and could you provide us with a source from where you have the information, that no one is playing this?

And did you consider, that maybe the pure existence of mods which make the game even harder could proof that the mistake is on your side rather than on the game's side?

I don't see how keeping them together will stop them from getting oneshotted but I'll try.

I envelop my own guys in smoke? It only lasts ONE round.

More like US in Company of Heroes. Take over the entire map and win through macro. Guess that means I can't scout....

Steamstatistics. It's not in the the top 100. XCOM is though

The most common issue for new players is not right-clicking to add accuracy to their shots; using only low-accuracy shots will kill you pretty quick.

If you're not making that mistake, maybe watch a Youtuber like Scott Manley or something, I think he's got a pretty good series on Xenonauts. The game isn't that hard on veteran if you know what you're doing, but maybe it'll only be obvious what you're doing wrong when you see someone play a mission "properly".

I'll watch Dranak and Scott Manley then and come back and say how things changed.

[victorix58]

1. Every time you are in the open, with unknown angles of fire on your men, pop smoke. Don't bother taking regular grenades; take extra smoke grenades.

2. Move in a spread out formation with heavies and snipers covering your scouting units, i.e. shield, rifle and assault. You will lose many rifle and assault soldiers, regardless. Try 2 heavies and one shield guy.

3. Aggressive will get you killed every time. Slow and careful is the only way to play.

4. Stop playing on Veteran. Difficulty level affects enemy accuracy.

5. You won't be able to survive getting shot until you get Tier 2 armour. Even then its not guaranteed.

[kabill]

I don't see how keeping them together will stop them from getting oneshotted but I'll try.

It won't. But it will allow you to focus fire so that if you find an alien on your turn you've more chance of killing it before it can attack, or if it is the alien's turn you may stand a chance of killing it with reaction fire. Generally speaking, any individual alien is more than a match for a single soldier, so you want to turn the odds in your favour. One on one is not a fight.

I envelop my own guys in smoke? It only lasts ONE round.

Smoke is really good - the fact that it only lasts one round actually makes it better since you can shoot unobstructed with your soldiers, deploy smoke to reduce chance of being hit, and then next turn take more or less clear shots again. Personally, I would advise taking primarily smoke grenades and flashbangs early on - they're much more useful than frags.

However (If you would like to learn about the alien's abilities in game, don't open the spoiler tag)

Sebillians (the lizard aliens) suffer no penalty shooting through smoke, although if you are playing with XCE they do suffer penalties from fire as if it was smoke

[Dranak]

You can get some general pointers from my videos, but my I/I series was recorded in the base game and not CE. Specifically that means that doors and teleporters can't be trivialized the way you see in my videos.

Generally speaking the best way to win firefights is to not be in them. You generally want to either hide in smoke or be out of line of sight during the aliens' turn, as they (mostly) can't kill what they can't see. Try to reveal relatively small areas of the map at a time, and focus down the aliens you encounter before moving into any new territory.

[MasterZelgadis]

Smoke lasts one turn? As far as i remember it lasts for 1 turn in full intensity and then degrades over a few turns. But that could also be just a graphic effect with the cloud losing complete effectiveness after the first turn.

Nevertheless, after 2 guys missing their shots Don't try to get a kill with the third one, cover your guys in smoke for that turn and hope the alien misses or shoots into your cover. Don't get me wrong, you can be in full cover, with smoke and the alien suppressed and get one hitted nevertheless. That's part of the game, soldiers will die, so don't bother giving them individual names

But you can do the best to avoid such situations.

Talking about suppresison, that also helps a lot. Gunning them down with a heavy MG may not be accurate or even kill him, but he will get suppressed and generate much less points the next turn. Which can be the difference between a well aimed onehit or a missed plasma shot fired from the hip. Flashbangs help also.

[Jerry]

It won't. But it will allow you to focus fire so that if you find an alien on your turn you've more chance of killing it before it can attack, or if it is the alien's turn you may stand a chance of killing it with reaction fire. Generally speaking, any individual alien is more than a match for a single soldier, so you want to turn the odds in your favour. One on one is not a fight.

Smoke is really good - the fact that it only lasts one round actually makes it better since you can shoot unobstructed with your soldiers, deploy smoke to reduce chance of being hit, and then next turn take more or less clear shots again. Personally, I would advise taking primarily smoke grenades and flashbangs early on - they're much more useful than frags.

However (If you would like to learn about the alien's abilities in game, don't open the spoiler tag)

Sebillians (the lizard aliens) suffer no penalty shooting through smoke, although if you are playing with XCE they do suffer penalties from fire as if it was smoke

I never have TUs for reaction fire. If a guy is crouching behind cover so I get 100% block chance, same for A.I?

I can't reactionfire with 100% block chance I guess?

So if I get this right. When my dudes are IN the smoke, they're harder to hit. If I shoot from WITHIN the smoke, I also have a harder time to hit?

If yes, if I'm three steps into the smoke so the aliens shots have to travel three tiles to hit me, do every tile that's covered in smoke further reduce the aliens shots accuracy?

[MasterZelgadis]

I usually place the smoke wall between me and the alien, so it has to shoot through the maximum of smoke covered tiles. Don't know if the hit chances get lower the more smoke tiles it has to shoot through, or the chances are lowered if there is at least 1 tile covered in smoke...

Usually i place the smoke at the end of my turn, so I don't bother whether my hit chances are affected. Use smoke for covering yourself, smoking first and then shooting through it would make no sense I think

edit:

found it..

How smoke grenades work

Edited January 22, 2016 by MasterZelgadis

[kabill]

I never have TUs for reaction fire. If a guy is crouching behind cover so I get 100% block chance, same for A.I?

I can't reactionfire with 100% block chance I guess?

No but you can shoot from behind any other prop without penalty if you are adjacent to it. E.g. if you are next to a 50% cover-prop then you can shoot over it, causing no penalty for your own shots but still giving a penalty to incoming attacks.

As regards reaction fire: I strongly recommend saving TUs where possible. In practice, I actually find reaction fire weak and so wouldn't advise relying on it. However, if you insist on moving your full move every turn, it means that you risk coming face-to-face with an alien without having TUs left to shoot it. As such, I find it better to save TUs for a shot not for reaction fire per se but to ensure I'm never in a situation where I discover an alien and cannot attack it. Also, in terms of being shot at with reaction fire, the proportion of a soldier's TUs remaining is factored into the chance of an alien shooting. So the more TUs you have used, the more likely it is aliens will take a reflex shot. Again, then, not spending all your TUs reduces the number of times aliens will take reflex shots against you.

Usually i place the smoke at the end of my turn, so I don't bother whether my hit chances are affected. Use smoke for covering yourself, smoking first and then shooting through it would make no sense I think

This is generally best but if you can't easily suppress your target it may be better to deploy smoke first as a counter against reaction fire (especially in the case of Androns).

[Jerry]

I usually place the smoke wall between me and the alien, so it has to shoot through the maximum of smoke covered tiles. Don't know if the hit chances get lower the more smoke tiles it has to shoot through, or the chances are lowered if there is at least 1 tile covered in smoke...

Usually i place the smoke at the end of my turn, so I don't bother whether my hit chances are affected. Use smoke for covering yourself, smoking first and then shooting through it would make no sense I think

edit:

found it..

How smoke grenades work

Great! That will aid me a bit.

No but you can shoot from behind any other prop without penalty if you are adjacent to it. E.g. if you are next to a 50% cover-prop then you can shoot over it, causing no penalty for your own shots but still giving a penalty to incoming attacks.

As regards reaction fire: I strongly recommend saving TUs where possible. In practice, I actually find reaction fire weak and so wouldn't advise relying on it. However, if you insist on moving your full move every turn, it means that you risk coming face-to-face with an alien without having TUs left to shoot it. As such, I find it better to save TUs for a shot not for reaction fire per se but to ensure I'm never in a situation where I discover an alien and cannot attack it. Also, in terms of being shot at with reaction fire, the proportion of a soldier's TUs remaining is factored into the chance of an alien shooting. So the more TUs you have used, the more likely it is aliens will take a reflex shot. Again, then, not spending all your TUs reduces the number of times aliens will take reflex shots against you.

This is generally best but if you can't easily suppress your target it may be better to deploy smoke first as a counter against reaction fire (especially in the case of Androns).

How much protection does each type of cover give? Is cover directional? I'm used to cover in Company of Heroes (RTS) where

Green: 30% less recieved damage (directional)

Yellow: 15% less recieved damage (all sides)

Red: You're easier to hit.

Here in Xenonauts CE it's the other way around so it's gonna take some time to wrap my head around

I'm watching this guy 'Faleg' now on Veteran Ironman and he kinda knows what he's doing. Taking it slow and careful and saving TUs.

I have to try that.

Which YouTuber do you recommend that plays in X:CE ?

[kabill]

How much protection does each type of cover give? Is cover directional? I'm used to cover in Company of Heroes (RTS) where

Green: 30% less recieved damage (directional)

Yellow: 15% less recieved damage (all sides)

Red: You're easier to hit.

Depends on the cover. The only way to check is to use the free-aim function (click on the soldier's equipped weapon) and draw a line of fire over the cover you want to check. A % will show above the cover prop - this indicates the % by which incoming attacks will have their to-hit reduced. E.g. if it indicates 50% shots crossing over that prop will be half as likely to hit as normal.

Cover is directional, indeed a shot trajectory must pass over the cover prop for the penalty to apply. This means that single-space cover props make pretty poor cover, as the AI is good at moving to angles which will ignore the cover. Better where possible then to find wider pieces of cover, or L shaped cover spaced that protect from multiple directions.

In any case, you are typically better staying out of LoS entirely where possible, using corners, windows and doors to hide behind at the end of your turn. Usually, it is better to hide a unit with their remaining TUs than take another and leave them out in the open. But oftentimes this isn't possible, hence the need for cover.

[MasterZelgadis]

Cover is directional, indeed a shot trajectory must pass over the cover prop for the penalty to apply. This means that single-space cover props make pretty poor cover, as the AI is good at moving to angles which will ignore the cover. Better where possible then to find wider pieces of cover, or L shaped cover spaced that protect from multiple directions.

Or bring in shields

I usually have 2 of them on my Charlie, but yesterday I got a bit unlucky, first two aliens in the mission vaporized both shields with their first shots. Got two half living pistol carriers for the rest of the mission, but managed to take out the rest of the aliens with only one casualty (a heavy I placed very silly at the UFO entrance, Alien came out, survived the reaction fire and killed him. You get instantly punished for such little mistakes in this game )

[Jerry]

Or bring in shields

I usually have 2 of them on my Charlie, but yesterday I got a bit unlucky, first two aliens in the mission vaporized both shields with their first shots. Got two half living pistol carriers for the rest of the mission, but managed to take out the rest of the aliens with only one casualty (a heavy I placed very silly at the UFO entrance, Alien came out, survived the reaction fire and killed him. You get instantly punished for such little mistakes in this game )

What mistake did you do? Not having three guys with reactionshots?

[MasterZelgadis]

Had two, + the shield carrier itself. All failed. Happens..

[Jerry]

1. Every time you are in the open, with unknown angles of fire on your men, pop smoke. Don't bother taking regular grenades; take extra smoke grenades.

2. Move in a spread out formation with heavies and snipers covering your scouting units, i.e. shield, rifle and assault. You will lose many rifle and assault soldiers, regardless. Try 2 heavies and one shield guy.

3. Aggressive will get you killed every time. Slow and careful is the only way to play.

4. Stop playing on Veteran. Difficulty level affects enemy accuracy.

5. You won't be able to survive getting shot until you get Tier 2 armour. Even then its not guaranteed.

1. That will seriously slow things down to a crawl but I don't have any alternatives.

2. I wonder why they designed it like that....but I guess I'll try.

3. I suspected as much. I'll play more and see if I have patience for it.

4. I'll watch some YouTubers and see if I should try again (for the 5th time) on Veteran.

5. WHY did they design it like that?? Getting oneshotted is not FUN! It causes people to RAGE and complain in the forum (like I did )

[MasterZelgadis]

You get oneshotted only if you make serious mistakes, or have really bad luck. But this happens very rarely. Again, why don't you try a lower difficulty?

[Jerry]

You get oneshotted only if you make serious mistakes, or have really bad luck. But this happens very rarely. Again, why don't you try a lower difficulty?

Is a serious mistake to have no TUs out in the open with no shield? In that case, I made quite a bit of'em.

I'm considering it but it feels shameful since I'm good at games and have been gaming since 1986.

[Big Z]

I strongly advise a 2 Shield, 2 Shotgun, and 2 Machinegun setup early on. Sniper rifles and assault rifles occupy an odd middleground where they're mediocre at pretty much everything; you'll get way more luck "sniping" with machine guns early on due to sheer range and volume of fire, and taking an assault rifle into a close combat situation is suicide due to the relatively weak reaction fire stats and high 3-round burst TU cost.

Scoot forward with shield-using scouts, identify enemy, then the machinegunners a couple tiles back lay down lead in its general direction until its dead. Repeat until you get to the saucer, then introduce the survivors to buckshot and pistol rounds.

The game changes significantly once you start developing armor for your troops, but while your men are running around in baby-blue fatigues, overwhelming firepower at either extreme or close range is the order of the day. Also, really, turn the difficulty down. The game is already to new players at low difficulties and just gets more brutal from there.

[MasterZelgadis]

Is a serious mistake to have no TUs out in the open with no shield?

Every single part of this sentence is a big mistake on its own.. No TU left.. Out in the open.. No shield..

Please read the description of the difficulty level. It is for players familiar with the X-Com series seeking for a real challenge.

Sorry, I don't want to offend you, but if you were "good at games" you wouldn't blame it on the game if it beats you. There are a lot of players that have no problem with the veteran setting, so the game can't be so unfair

[Jerry]

I strongly advise a 2 Shield, 2 Shotgun, and 2 Machinegun setup early on. Sniper rifles and assault rifles occupy an odd middleground where they're mediocre at pretty much everything; you'll get way more luck "sniping" with machine guns early on due to sheer range and volume of fire, and taking an assault rifle into a close combat situation is suicide due to the relatively weak reaction fire stats and high 3-round burst TU cost.

Scoot forward with shield-using scouts, identify enemy, then the machinegunners a couple tiles back lay down lead in its general direction until its dead. Repeat until you get to the saucer, then introduce the survivors to buckshot and pistol rounds.

The game changes significantly once you start developing armor for your troops, but while your men are running around in baby-blue fatigues, overwhelming firepower at either extreme or close range is the order of the day. Also, really, turn the difficulty down. The game is already to new players at low difficulties and just gets more brutal from there.

I understand the tactic but what about getting flanked? Often I get shot and killed from beyond my LoS by both Ceasans and Sebilians (and Sebilians are supposed to be bad at longrange combat..?). I'm scouting and *WHOSH!* Reactionfire. --> Soldier dead.

I'll try leading with shieldguys but that means I can only scout one area at a time so if the aliens run around to the back or attack from the sides, I will die.

Every single part of this sentence is a big mistake on its own.. No TU left.. Out in the open.. No shield..

Please read the description of the difficulty level. It is for players familiar with the X-Com series seeking for a real challenge.

Sorry, I don't want to offend you, but if you were "good at games" you wouldn't blame it on the game if it beats you. There are a lot of players that have no problem with the veteran setting, so the game can't be so unfair

I don't trust difficultysettings since they're made for todays gamers but it seems Xenonauts is the real deal.

I'll try Normal if I fail again.

I'm good at RTS and shooters but then again, Xenonauts requires a completely different skillset.

[Big Z]

In my experience the aliens generally don't move around or pull much in the way of flanking maneuvers; if you're getting popped from the sides or an area you thought was clear, odds are there was an alien hiding somewhere around there the whole time and just now decided to say hi.

Also, your men have the same vision range as all standard alien types during daylight missions, so if you're constantly being stomped on from beyond the fog of war, either A: there's an alien closer nearby acting as a spotter that you haven't seen yet (basically using the tactics I described earlier against you), or B: you're playing a mission at night, which is functionally suicide until you get your mitts on a vehicle (searchlights) since the aliens are unaffected by the dark and your men can barely see their hand ion front of their face.