Chris

Xenonauts 2 - Update

114 posts in this topic

True random maps would be a very nice thing if you could do it. That's really the main thing I can think of that would make the original better.

Also perhaps randomising the alien weapons so that during one play through a particular weapon represents the most powerful alien weapon whereas in the next play-trough it might represent the weakest (i.e. research pot luck, so that you don't just research the most powerful weapon all the time and leave the others).

Whatever you do, please do not make it an RTS!!!!

Edited by ooey

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In few points.

1. What ooey said. Dont make it as RTS or do it as it was in Xcom Apocalypse where there was a possibility to choose between turn and rts.

2. If we can move our soldiers, why we cant move our planes in 3D?? Why not from the cockpit?

Yes ... why not some basic simulator?

3. If we can move our soldiers and force them to shoot ... why we cant do it on our own?

Moving soldiers in turns with normal view but possibility to shoot on your own from first person. If that, the faster You were moving, the stronger arms are shaking.

4. Multiplayer? Why not! Up to 4-5 guys in game. Players as separate base commanders. Cooperation only on strategic map and strategic moves. Maybe with directly shooting down UFOs. More often alien activity and time on slowest. Could be turned faster when all playing guys will turn it on same speed (faster or slower). Like voting.

With this ... fatigue and stress of the soldiers, pilots. So playing with only one squad will not be possible anymore.

5. Here You got players that dont look for the graphics like real. We are looking for fantastic game. That graphic, which is in Xenonauts now, is good enough. Dont waste Your time on that.

Dear developers ... thats the way of the future :)!!!

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I threw my pennies at you back in 2010 when the alpha build consisted of watching the geoscape day night cycle. I would cheerfully do so again.

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In few points.

1. What ooey said. Dont make it as RTS or do it as it was in Xcom Apocalypse where there was a possibility to choose between turn and rts.

I kinda doubt that will be an issue. RTS done well though can be very good for squad based tactics. Check out Satellite Reign for an indy example, or Dawn of War 2 for a big(er) budget one.

2. If we can move our soldiers, why we cant move our planes in 3D?? Why not from the cockpit?

Yes ... why not some basic simulator?

So you don't want Apoc, but you do want X-Com Interceptor? A 3d flight sim would be an astronomical amount of work.

3. If we can move our soldiers and force them to shoot ... why we cant do it on our own?

Moving soldiers in turns with normal view but possibility to shoot on your own from first person. If that, the faster You were moving, the stronger arms are shaking.

What would this add to the game though? If it's just the kewl factor then I'd suggest a small screen with a helmet mounted camera for each soldier like in Space Hulk or (the movie) Aliens. It'd create quite a bit more work for the artists though since then the player is going to be looking at the art assets from angles they wouldn't otherwise be doing.

4. Multiplayer? Why not! Up to 4-5 guys in game. Players as separate base commanders. Cooperation only on strategic map and strategic moves. Maybe with directly shooting down UFOs. More often alien activity and time on slowest. Could be turned faster when all playing guys will turn it on same speed (faster or slower). Like voting.

With this ... fatigue and stress of the soldiers, pilots. So playing with only one squad will not be possible anymore.

So what would the other players be doing when someone is off on a battlescape mission? staring at a pause screen? Watching time pass by at a 1:1 ratio? Watching him play the mission?

5. Here You got players that dont look for the graphics like real. We are looking for fantastic game. That graphic, which is in Xenonauts now, is good enough. Dont waste Your time on that.

Dear developers ... thats the way of the future :)!!!

Xenonats 2 could benefit from some graphical overhauls though just to aid in usability. A lot of this can be solved just by moving to a better engine like Unity though.

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If You want to play with quotes? I dont like this but ... here Ya go.

I kinda doubt that will be an issue. RTS done well though can be very good for squad based tactics. Check out Satellite Reign for an indy example, or Dawn of War 2 for a big(er) budget one.

Go n' play those games.

So you don't want Apoc, but you do want X-Com Interceptor? A 3d flight sim would be an astronomical amount of work.

Who dont want to have Apocalypse turn/real time? Try to read harder ... Yall find another bottom.

Who said it need to be simulator compared to WarThunder or so? Can be very basic, even more than Interceptor.

What would this add to the game though? If it's just the kewl factor then I'd suggest a small screen with a helmet mounted camera for each soldier like in Space Hulk or (the movie) Aliens. It'd create quite a bit more work for the artists though since then the player is going to be looking at the art assets from angles they wouldn't otherwise be doing.

Sometimes its like no damn way he missed! With this feature ... here ya go ... thats why.

So what would the other players be doing when someone is off on a battlescape mission? staring at a pause screen? Watching time pass by at a 1:1 ratio? Watching him play the mission?

Again. Try to read harder ... Yall find another bottom.

Maybe someone else can take the base of not present player? So if one player will play this, he will control all bases alone?

I dont know ... maybe its possible, to use common sense from time to time. I know its hard ... but try sometimes. Solve problems instead building them.

Xenonats 2 could benefit from some graphical overhauls though just to aid in usability. A lot of this can be solved just by moving to a better engine like Unity though.

Better graphics. What for?

Theres no possibility to fly over 50% range for fighters to take down UFO after PSR (Point of safe return).

Theres no possibility to smash aliens with armored vehicles.

Graphics ... who cares? This is old xcom.

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Like many I was a backer of Xenonauts from the beginning and was very happy at how it turned out. Long hours spent Alpha testing, putting up with crashes, awaiting week to week on getting a more stable playable product. I would happily go through it all again for a reboot.

Sadly, I've not had much time to enjoy the finished product. However, unless things have changed since the last time I booted it up, the two key things I would like to see made easier in a new version is the customization of characters in the starting squad (select by name rather than number) and the adjustment of male/female soldier ratio (in settings rather than editing a text file). Sure this can be done now but you have to really search for how to do it.

If you don't agree with me you can always load me into your starting squad (#5) and run me into a room full of aliens unarmed.

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I completely agree!

I have wished tactical turn based games would adopt the silent storm environment destruction for so long

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I would love this game so much, if you use a system like Xcom apocalypse.

It is the best thing you could do today, give the player the choice of real-time combat or turn-based.

Xcom Apocalypse was the best xcom game in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, xenonauts is very good too, but this choice would give you a lot of sells i guess or at least i hope so!

Anyway, can't wait to see Xenonauts 2! Specially after the two very, very disappointing"new" xcom games, which are totaly dumbed down compared to the old xcom series.

In few points.

1. [...] do it as it was in Xcom Apocalypse where there was a possibility to choose between turn and rts.

If they would do it like Xcom apocalyse, a dream would come true!

I wish i had a lot of money, so i could spend it to make it possible, i really hope they do it the xcom apoc.-way *finger crossed*.

Edited by Xcom3Fan

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RTS model will kill the suspense that built in the turn base model. It happen in X-Com 3, UFO: Aftermath and it's sequels. In X-Com Apocalypse, the combat was so suspenseful when in turn base model; but after I turn it into RTS, the tactical essence of the game was lost. Rather than being tactical, it become just a fire exchange just like in the other RTS game.

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I would love this game so much, if you use a system like Xcom apocalypse.

It is the best thing you could do today, give the player the choice of real-time combat or turn-based.

That would be amazing!

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So glad you guys are making a sequel!

At first glance sebillians sound way too tough right now. I'd expect the arsenal of Xenonauts to grow in similar proportion so they can deal more easily with sebillians. Like an ammo type for research that will poison them and prevent their regenerative power or similar items.

Like right now in XCom: Long War you pretty much need to get out of your way to include some guys with heat ammo mid to late game. I'd like to see something similar for sebillians and maybe other special enemies, equip or tech you need against them so they get easier to deal with but which also means cutting corners in terms of maybe mobility/range/damage output/defense etc.

Edited by Necro_Man_Ser

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All, just my humble opinion:

What I liked more than original XCOM in Xenonauts: air combat. Great stuff.

I don't think Xe2 needs to change a lot to be successfull. More simulation vs scripts, bigger more complex tech tree, longer psi phase, closer to the roots in general would be great.

Phenix like alien doesn't sound fun at all, alien that is much easier to kill in melee (possibly with a different weapon, e.g. as lobsters in XCOM: Terror From The Deep) would be.

Unity engine was the reason I can't play sequel to "The Longest Journey"... Hopefully it won't be as bad with Xe2... =(

Important question: Will it be in the game by default, or possible through modding, to remove Time Units and do Firaxis-style action-based turns? I've always found that, along with the weird cover system, to be the 2 biggest draws to Xenonauts.

I'm shocked someone is seriously asking to dumb game down... There are Firaxis thingies, for those into that...

Edited by medi01

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Important question: Will it be in the game by default, or possible through modding, to remove Time Units and do Firaxis-style action-based turns? I've always found that, along with the weird cover system, to be the 2 biggest draws to Xenonauts.

I actually like the cover system... if giant rock is between you and the target, it should affect your accuracy in some way. It's nice little distinction from Firaxis XCOM; they already made a game which perfectly complements their method of cover so it feels bit redundant to have two games with similar mechanics. I guess similar reasoning applies to TU system.

I just think making the formula simple and communicating that formula better UI-wise would be sufficient if change is necessary. For example, if the formula happens to be only cover with highest % in line of fire matters, have UI highlight only that cover and its block chance (but not other covers).

Another thing was the lack of tutorial. Complaint about cover I found actually comes mostly from not knowing or misunderstanding angles (which Firaxis XCOM has with flanking) and "corner shooting" mechanic.

Edited by ventuswings

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I know I'm relatively new here, but I have a couple of things I'd like to day. First off, I really like thr AP system. It gives quite a bit more flexibility in terms of what you can do in a turn, and has a lot more depth than 'two actions'. The changes to the sebillions seem fine, if I'm honest as you simply need to fire four times as many rounds into it to actually finish it off. It'll make them more like the in-game description says they are, which isn't a bad thing necessarily. Their health may need to be reduced a little though.

The art style looks awesome! If we can get the full benifits of 3D (verticality, rotating, etc.) with the same art style, I'm all for it.

I also have a couple of suggestions. I was thinking that maybe a diplomacy system between the nations and your organisation would be a nice addition to/replacement of the current funds increases/drops. Animals in places would make for a nice change of pace too, with some of them attacking you or the aliens (like bears). More customisation is never really a bad thing, and while the modular weapons and such in XCOM 2 are nice, it's comparatively bare-bones, and I feel that if Xenonauts was to have that type of customisation too, it would be able to add a lot to the table still. Or at least have a different style if the DLC adds a lot more to it (which shouldn't be too hard since it's all future tech in that game).

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What drove you to make this game instead of the game you were pitching about a year ago involving space colonies fighting? I'm not complaining, I'm stoked as can be since I wasn't a fan of the other games design, but I'm rather curious as to what changed your minds.

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The biggest things I'm hoping for from xenonauts 2 is a very modular approach to interactive elements that applies to all entities universally. Things like gravity, fall damage, status effects, PSI, morale and such apply equally to both humans and aliens.

The less hardcoded, the better. It would be great to have the possibility to have aliens as usable soldiers, than just strictly humans and vehicles only, if even as a modding thing, so adding things like cyborgs, androids, robots, animals, dogs and alien hybrids to fight alongside soldiers would be dope.

I would most appreciate if weapon were not designed via traditional archetypes (pistol/rifle/shotgun), but put all the variables that a weapon can have* and craft weapons out of those, no matter how exotic they may be.

*Accuracy, Power, Damage Type, Terrain Damage, Spread, TU cost, Complexity, Ammo Count, Weapon Range, Explosive, Penetrating, Submunitions (release fire/smoke/gas, mines, clusterbomblets, needles, bullets, gravitational push force...), Healing, Onehanded/Twohanded, Firing Trajectory (direct, mortar, homing), Recoil, Inventory Size, Weight, Reaction Speed, Status Effect Infliction, Firing Modes, Projectile Types (bullets, flames, gas, arcs, radiation, beams, rays, gravitational forces, liquid, darts, crystals, acid), Ammo Weight.

Also I'm really hoping I can shoot a whole lot more bullets and actually run out of ammo in Xenonauts 2.

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Also I'm really hoping I can shoot a whole lot more bullets and actually run out of ammo in Xenonauts 2.

That would be good. I modded Xenonauts 1 to have increased LOS which helped a lot with this. Longer ranges meant fights started sooner and required more suppression fire to keep the enemy pinned so the squad could get new positions.

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Question about ground combat: do you plan to make it uniquely in classic style like Xeno 1, or perhaps some sort of experiments? Not like a new XCOM, but may be new turn planing system like a Frozen synapse or what you currently use for air combat, so it adds much dynamic and realism in combat, and do not spoil tactic component. And you may have already considered the possibility of some sort of coop?

P.S. Sorry, if this question already was on forum.:D

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I read the info at www.xenonauts2.com.

"3D Graphics – moving from 2D sprites to 3D graphics will improve visual fidelity, but will also be valuable for gameplay – it allows for things like rotating cameras, vastly improved animation, physics objects, accurate projectile tracking, etc"

Do not go 3D.

Dont do it.

There is not a single "advantage" in your list that makes it worth its while.

It will decimate the feel of the game.

Look at Shadowrun Returns.

The game is adored.

It is beautifully HD rendered 2D Isometric tactical turned-based combat at its best.

Its made so well, and done with such incredible art, none of the things its "missing" from not being 3D is a concern.

This is so sharp for me because (I swear) just yesterday before I saw the XN2 announcement, I was thinking to myself,

"Wow, this is done so well. I hope Xeno can move towards a grafx feel like this at some point."

With what 2D can do with pre-rendered art (SpaceRangers2-HD), there are very, very few reasons that make 3D a nessessity.

Keep Xeno 2D.

Please, step back, slow down, and really really ask yourselves if you truly cannot make the excellent game you want to make unless you transition to 3D.

At least directly ask the community yourselves.

As in, the question comes officially from you, and not just from some forum peon like me.

MeVII

Edited by MeVII

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What is the effective difference between pre-rendered 2d and 3d locked to that same plane that you'd 2d render to?

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What is the effective difference between pre-rendered 2d and 3d locked to that same plane that you'd 2d render to?

It is possible for there to be no difference in game-play. However, there is the non-gameplay difference that 3D requires more powerful hardware, consuming more mem and processing resources.

While I do think its possible in theory to manage, I have seen more games strangle themselves in attempting to transition to 3D than have ever been successful at it.

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MeVII, the genie in that particular bottle popped free when the game concept "Pathfinders" was first mooted late in 2014. From the sporadic development updates that followed, as well as a debate hosted last year which lead to Pathfinders transitioned to Xenonauts 2, it's clear there's been a lot of time spent on making Goldhawk's squad-based games 3D. Sadly, you've missed the boat.

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It is possibleHowever, there is the non-gameplay difference that 3D requires more powerful hardware, consuming more mem and processing resources.

I can't see hardware being an issue anymore. Computer performance advances seems to have slowed down somewhat a few years ago so it's no longer necessary to upgrade to a new PC to play most new games. My 6 year old system has handled everything up to Divinity: Original Sin with no issues.

I prefer 3D games since the well-made ones invariably offer better gameplay. X-Com was great in it's day but Silent Storm completely blew it away in terms of destructible environment and tactics. It takes a 3D engine to pull that off because it's too hard to create complex environmental interaction in 2D.

Shadowrun is a fun game but not a great turn-based combat game. Without the storyline and RPG elements, combat would have become repetitive very quickly. X-Com style games rely heavily upon a good ground combat system for their success.

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Pre-rendered art involves making 3d models and then rendering them into 2d, so you end up having to do all the 3d art anyway (which is what happened for Xenonauts in the end) ... and in that case you may as well just make a full 3d game.

It takes some learning in the short / medium term but it'll work out much better in the long term.

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