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Debating Xenonauts 2


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Playing up the Cold War backdrop doesn't mean it would elbow smash the alien invasion out of the way. There are quite subtle but meaningful ways in which the Cold War could be used to affect the strategic and possibly the tactical layer of the game. I've presented political choices in a negative aspect, but they could be presented in a positive manner. If a decision carries a positive effect but closes the door to other positive effects, this influences the decision made. If repeated decisions swing the kind of positive effect one direction or another, then that affects strategic decisions.

This is just me throwing out thoughts, but one way of doing it would be to re-purpose an existing mechanic and steal another one. Let's say that the Great Powers have a relationship score, just like funding blocs but it starts off at zero (neither side trust you!). The things that a player does and the order in which he does them on the geoscape directly influence these scores. As the score for a side increases certain benefits become available at each "tier" of the score. You could liken it to the Paragon/Renegade scoring system in Mass Effect, or the notoriety skill trees in inFamous. As a player improves relations with one side, they become more welcoming to the player and make more things available. Take bases, for example. Putting a base down automatically generates X amount of relationship score with one side, and it's generated every X number of days. Where you put the base effects both the amount of relationship score generated and the time between generation. The best areas to "mine" score wouldn't necessarily be the most optimal for detection (putting a base in North America might improve relations with the US faster, but that would then mean putting another base in South America, doubling the cost of covering the Americas). Or take ufo recovery. Let's say that the first UFO that you recover in a wave carries a score bonus or score multiplier, and that multiplier depends on where the UFO crashlanded. If the current system of relationship score is carried over to the remake, the player is encouraged to shoot down as many ufos as possible because getting regional relationship score is totally dependant on shooting down ufos. A the player who is encouraged to make lots of crash sites then has to decide which crash site to go to first, to maximise his relationship with whichever side he wants to improve relations with. And hey, perhaps if both sides are on the same tier, the player gets some kind of synergy bonus? So if a player wants to foster mutal understanding, they'd have to work on getting on both sides?

I mean, that's just off the top of my head, but I think some system of carrot and stick with additional bonuses for encouraging unity would be the best way to represent the Great Powers without them getting too much in the way of the invasion.

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Sadly the tech level of the humans at the end of Xenonauts is so powerful that narratively I don't think there's anywhere we can go that would not take the series into completely different territory

Who says we won? Maybe the war is at a standstill and the aliens regrouped, maybe we lost and now have to kick them out, starting out by retaking territory before they have full control. Remember the V-series (the original)? It would be AWESOME to start with a raggedy bunch of misfits and war veterans in a cellar somewhere and end up with a global "Xenonauts"-organization!

Some food for thought along those lines (from Wikipedia, Counter insurgency)

Galula proposes four "laws" for counterinsurgency:[9]

The aim of the war is to gain the support of the population rather than control of territory.

Most of the population will be neutral in the conflict; support of the masses can be obtained with the help of an active friendly minority.

Support of the population may be lost. The population must be efficiently protected to allow it to cooperate without fear of retribution by the opposite party.

Order enforcement should be done progressively by removing or driving away armed opponents, then gaining support of the population, and eventually strengthening positions by building infrastructure and setting long-term relationships with the population. This must be done area by area, using a pacified territory as a basis of operation to conquer a neighbouring area.

Except we are doing this the other way around as we are insurgents, not counterinsurgents... :)

-- Full 3D - We'd make the game in full 3D with a (90-degree) rotatable camera. I'd also want to replace soldier paperdolls and painted screen backgrounds etc on the strategy layer with 3D models.

3D - yes

Rotatable camera, maybe. Only around y-axis.

-- Aliens - I'd like to add some more aliens, rework some of the existing ones mechanically to be more interesting and also redesign them so they look more striking and "alien" in the ground combat.

Nice. Also make aliens individuals so that I can visually see that an alien that left my view and reappear two turns later in my flank ia actually the same freakin guy with that purple mohawk, long nose, red spiky shoulderpads and a tatto on his forearm. Or something like that.

Also make killing a very dangerous alien rewarding somehow, more loot, medals, "xp" to spend on any skill I want etc.

-- Research / Development - I want to add the concept of 'development' to the research tree, allowing you to continue researching "hub" technologies (like laser weapons etc) to increase their effectiveness if you choose. Choosing whether to improve existing tech or research new stuff should add more choice to the research tree.

Very nice idea!

--Destructible UFOs - the UFO outer hulls should be destructible, which means we'll have to redesign them visually too.

Yes I want to destroy EVERYTHING! In original X-com my soldiers would start at the roof of the UFO and blast their way downwards with explosives. Not that the AI understood the they should be shocked and awed by this but it looked cool! As long as I carry enough explosive with me please let me be able to blow up anything!

X-com apocalypse was awesome that way. If you fought for too long in a skyscraper and used too much incendiaries and explosives the whole building could fall down on you. That was awesome!

Vertical Terrain - we should have hills etc in the game, rather than purely flat maps with buildings offering the only verticality.

How about making levels generate procedurally, at least to some extent? Perhaps with a voxel engine with marching cubes algo?

--XCOM Cover System - I think the cover system in XCOM was very easy to understand and also integrated 'leaning' in an intuitive way, whereas our cover system was a bit of a mess. I think we'd probably switch to their cover system.

I prefer your system. Sure it takes longer to learn but you learn it as it's a game you play for many hours. I presonally prefer if it takes longer time to learn every little bit about a game (Dwarf Fortress anyone?) as once I understand everything then I am just playing the RNG. When I don't fully understand the whole system it's still something of an adventure. Maybe that's just me though...

--Soldier Colour Customisation - I want to redesign the armours so they are more recognisable from silhouette, allowing people to customise their colours of their troops (including having role-specific colour schemes).

I'd prefer the soldiers to be individuals, different height, weight, faces etc. Even on the battlefield.

Make me recognize their faces, learn to love them and then take them away! That will make me hate the aliens soo much more :)

Better yet, something like:

uma_editor.jpg

--UI - the existing UI is a bit of a mess, particularly with regards to the strategy layer, so we'd redo that.

Could use some improvement yes. I wouldn't call it a mess though.

--Air Combat - I'm not sure exactly how I'd redesign this yet, but I think it could do with further improvement.

Air-combat is really good and unique. If you like to expand o0n it sure, but keep it's soul.

--Modding Tools - we've been working on some pretty cool game editors and level editors, so the modding / translation / level creation tools will be much better than in Xenonauts 1 and will handle the "modular mod" stuff automatically.

Excellent. While I am not an avid modder myself, others are and they usually have more time on their hands than devs do so make it easy for them.

Two questions - one, would you buy an improved version of Xenonauts again if we made it? Secondly, what annoyed you about the first game and what do you think we should improve?

Yes I would buy!

One thing that bothers me about the first game is that it doesn't make a difference between physical attributes and skills. If a soldier has been a sniper for twenty missions, he should probably be better at using a sniper rifle than a rocket launcher. If a soldier has been assigned to be a medic, running through bulletstorms to get to wounded comrades then he should be better at patching up wounds. Maybe even save the life of a downed soldier if there is something left :)

Actually, I think the whole permadeath thing is awesome BUT there should be more I could do to save a downed soldier. When he goes to the ground at 0 hp he should be unconscious but bleeding out. If I can get to him before the enemy then I shouild be able to drag him to cover, patch him up and perhaps perform CPR. Not to get him back into the mission but to save his life! Also there should be a combat-medic badge like in many armies aroudn the world for saving someone under fire :)

EDIT: Ohh, and also, make the pilots be individuals who can improve by skill. Could be as simple as getting a damage and a speed bonus but make them individuals. It would improve the narrative enven more and there could be a "save the downed pilot"-mission. Or kill him if needed, can't let him tell the aliens where our base is...

Anyway regardless of what you do I'll still be excited to play when it get's out on early access :)

uma_editor.jpg

uma_editor.thumb.jpg.30ef602f8cf68c6129f

Edited by mikhog
Adde part about pilots at the end
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Who says we won? Maybe the war is at a standstill and the aliens regrouped, maybe we lost and now have to kick them out, starting out by retaking territory before they have full control.

Please no, that is the exact plot of the new X-Com 2 and it makes no sense at all. If we lost having the planet and funding nations, how the f*** can we beat them without that?

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1. I would buy an improved Xenonauts or a Xenonauts 2. However, I would not buy a remake. I probably also wouldn't buy it if it is 3D; I prefer 2D because I think it is more timeless/looks better artistically speaking.

It would have to be a new plotline, different than the first one. I don't want to rehash the same old alien invasion scenario. How about the original Xenonauts from the first game become corrupted/mind controlled through alien technology and you command a rebel faction, possibly assisted by "good" extraterrestials? Yeah.... Feel free to use that.... ; ) Add in some new types of battles too. Like capture point and defend against waves of aliens? Yeah.... awesomesauce.

2. (a) I would prefer a deeper, more varied color palette; (b) randomly generated maps would be great, missed this; © the UI requires a lot of clicking to do everything, less clicking/more integration would be good; (d) more varied combat options, i.e. new battle types, new objectives, more story missions, special abilities?

I have to agree about the art in Xenonauts. It is remarkably pleasing to the eye and very retro and my hat is off to the ones who chose to embrace it and do it. Xenonauts has that certain vibe and feel that I enjoy. Thankfully I'm not the only one who appreciates the 2D hand painted art style look. I don't look at Xenonauts as a clone per se but a tribute to a style that so many of us fondly remember and one of the main reasons we smile when booting up and playing Xenonauts. Even the music is captivating. Xenonauts has achieved a special place of respect in gaming. It holds it's own against many classics and surpasses them in its execution.

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Please no, that is the exact plot of the new X-Com 2 and it makes no sense at all. If we lost having the planet and funding nations, how the f*** can we beat them without that?

Busking, garage sales, e-bay... all skills in X-Com:2 and could be ours in Xenonauts 2 too! :)

I do agree about the tone of the art. It's one of the things I remember first when thinking about Xenonauts. I'd miss that miserable, underpaid, overworked look of my troops if it was replaced by the standard steroid abusing hero/heroines.

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I like the idea of a sequel, and all the ideas i see from everyone in these comments sound really cool. However, the only thing that bothers me is the 3D game design because i don't have a very good computer and I'm sure there are other people like myself that love Xenonauts and don't have good gaming computers, but if the "sequel" comes out in 3D will people with lower end computers be able to run it?

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Intended Improvements:

Full 3D - 3D wouldn't be terrible, but I agree with the other posters that the game does have it's own retro charm now with its current style. Maybe have 3D in certain sections of the game, but I don't believe that the game would be benefited from everything being 3D.

Aliens - Since this is a remake, not a sequel or a large update, you have about the same options. You already have your basic aliens, but as a weird idea, maybe have multiple factions of aliens. I wouldn't know how to implement it but of my two ideas...

1) Maybe this could effect the previous ideas of a cold war, but maybe there's a kind of same idea with the aliens and are using Earth as a battlefield for their war, instead of their planets. Winning would include destroying one of their planet or home or something. Maybe you could choose a side, one being more powerful but slaving and will take a large portion of humans for slaves, or the other one being weaker but ensures freedom within a republic.

2) You could choose which enemies you fight, in faction oriented menu at the begging. Maybe you fight slavers, or crazy gene manipulating enemies, or robots, a slightly higher technology human-like race, or your default slave confederacy of aliens.

Research / Development - For research, I think enough has been said. Make a tree, not a log. For development I'd expect something more modifiable. Such as being able to add things to weapons or armor to change an attribute of them, rather than having multiple suits of armor that are kind of the same but keep costing more or less. I'll just use Wolf as an example, you have wolf armor and the flying wolf armor. They cost different things even though they kind of match out at usefulness, based on situation. With weapons, you could have easily assembled mods, like a grenade launcher or a better sight.

Destructible UFOs - That's a good idea, but it may be difficult when there's something needed in a UFO, I don't know what, and you threw a grenade to catch an alien, suddenly you have to attack another battleship. So +1 overall

Vertical Terrain - I'll play devil's advocate here. Anybody else remember having problems in the original x com games, whenever bullets/harpoons were just too low or high to hit an alien? Or when the mountain or hill cause your pullet to just barely not nick the feet on an alien? My real opinion is on board for verticality, but that's not to say I had no trouble getting used to it.

XCOM Cover System - Which one? I'm not entirely clear on whether you mean the originals or the remakes. If the originals, I don't see a difference. The remakes, I'd rather this depend on the graphical style. I would prefer some minor changes in the cover system, more percentages and more intuitive numbers to where they can and can't be hit.

UI - If it is a mess, it's a hot mess. I didn't have many problems with it, not nearly enough for myself to mind anything. It was good.

Air Combat - Paratroopers? Possibly dropping soldiers onto/into a UFO and having to fight against them literally pushing you out. This could be achieved with the verticallity.

Tutorial - If everything comes true and good, a tutorial will be needed. At the very least, more tooltips.

Two questions - one, would you buy an improved version of Xenonauts again if we made it?

Yes, maybe. Sale, yes, anytime, but please release it at a good time. Not right next to a big seller or something like that.

Secondly, what annoyed you about the first game and what do you think we should improve?

Some buttons like the Build New Base button were too small.

I loved the shield class but didn't figure out how until a while in.

The difficulty ramp is fine, but not when you can't see it coming.

More enemies. I don't want to you to blatantly rip off X-com: Enemy Within, but I wouldn't mind a genetically modified human enemy that worships the aliens. Or then genetically modifying your own soldiers.

I think the prospect of robots or cyborgs could help improve the game, but not actually implementing them. Like researching enemy mechanicals can give you a better health kit or make healing/reviving easier. i don't know but robots/cyborgs would be a good idea, if not a mechanic or concept.

Money issues only a few months, or two months in.

Shooting percentages. It seems like getting blocked by an item and shooting an enemy had two different total percentages and combining them would be a good idea.

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In all seriousness, going 3D would be a major improvement over the 2D graphics of Xenonauts because it means we don't need to use sprites. It means adding new units, swapping unit equipment / armour / skin appearance or doing things like lighting or particle effects are all much simpler. For things like the strategy UI backgrounds they can easily be animated too, rather than being static images.

In terms of performance it's actually likely to be better than Xenonauts is on low-end machines because of the way the engine loaded sprites really choking up low-end graphics cards. With 3D models you have just have a "low quality" version of the models for use on low-end machines, but you can't really do the same detail scaling with 2D tiles and sprites.

I'll admit that some of the distinctive hand-painted style of the 2D terrain might be lost, but things like more realistic lighting and better animation will improve the visuals in other ways. We'll do our best not to make everything look super-generic like some games do, anyway.

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Yes, I suspected the positives of going 3D would be way too overwhelming to even consider this an actual choice to be made. As long as you strive to maintain faithful transition it should not be a problem. I was so impressed I kept finding new and new details to admire, especially when loading the submap editor, that I have total confidence you won't drop the ball on this one.

Just make sure you add a bunch of new cool concept units, okay? :)

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HNnnng! YES please make this, YES I will buy it.

3D & Cover are both very welcome; R&D improvements with developmental options get me all hot and bothered.

I'd really like to see R&D expanded upon with branching tech tree decisions (go A OR B but not both). Also mechs & psionics please :3 I really do miss psionics.

If you do go 3D, please don't make cartoony...I like the more serious aesthetics of xenonauts. Terrain verticality is neat but maybe add water elements? Not saying go TFTD...but maybe that's not such a bad idea given you are going in a very similar direction as micropose did.

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Okay, here's what I think X2 would need to be a clear improvement on the first one. (which is, as we all know, great!)

Style and mood

Firstly, you need to somehow preserve the overall characteristic style and mood that is so distinct in Xenonauts. Even if you do move to 3d-engine, I think you should at least keep using 2d portraits (maybe modular this time to keep them fresh?) that can display much more features and show emotions than ugly generic faces made out of few polygons and a bad texture. In ground combat, you could experiment with cell shaded or Borderlands concept art style to preserve the "old skool" look there.

"Low budget 3d" just never looks nearly as good as pre-rendered 2d. To be honest, I can't name a single good looking / non-generic indie game with 3d-graphics. Xenonauts as it is, is ageless, but it could have looked simply phenomenal with a bit more time and polish plus a coherent art direction and a better engine. With 3d, you'll never achieve phenomenal graphics. While I completely understand the technical reasoning behind the move into 3d, you'd need a huge studio and resources like Firaxis to pull it off with as long lasting/ageless results as you have with Xenonauts.

I'd like you also to strive for a more oppressive, moody, lonely and desolate atmosphere like in the original games both in art, sfx and music. As a graphic designer myself, I always felt Xenonauts was visually a bit of as mixed bag. I didn't mind the 2d look per se, but many of the game's elements just didn't fit that well together, so I'm sure you can do much better there if you hire someone talented as an art lead.

Sound effects were, I think one of the most amateurish part of the Xenonauts. Most of the effects just didn't sound that good and were in fact quite annoying. Unit death sounds were terrible and both teleport and psychic attack had the same annoying sound effect. While some of the alien sfx were fine, most of them were quite amateurish, boring and unimaginative. Also, a complete lack of ambient sounds leave the games aural landscape a bit bare bones and flat. Richer sound scape could allow you to use background music more sparingly too, so it would feel more effective (you know, a few minutes of silence here and there, before the music starts again). Music should maybe also be even more ambient so it wouldn't get old so fast.

Maps and tilesets

About the maps then... (hire me? :)) Firstly, you need some more generic tilesets that aren't so geographically indentifiable (mountains, forests, plains...) that could be randomly used in areas like europe, russia and NA. In addition you'd need more specific area based tilesets with a bit more object variation (arctic, desert, middle east, asia, tundra) plus urban areas. (not just industrial) Tilesets need to have a more lived feeling in them. In Xenonauts all the maps look like they were build the second the player steps out of the Chinook. You need to have blood, bodies, burned walls and broken windows, destroyed cars, stuff like that. Maybe environmental effects too, like rain.

I feel the map sizes could be a bit (~10%?) smaller than in Xenonauts to keep the fights more intense and tight. In Xenonauts, map sizes became too large on bigger ufos. In that part of the game, the ground combat had already became a bit stale, so those could have concentrated the firefights more inside of the ufos, which are the interesting part at that point.

Maps definitely need more buildings and other close quarter locations to keep them interesting. Vanilla maps were too empty and emphasized ranged combat too much. Original map and submap selection, as you know, was quite slim, so you definitely need to put more resources there and probably think about randomizing them more.

Ufo's need to be bigger and more interesting with more corridors, small rooms and doors, more floors with balconies etc. Lot's of ambush locations. Also, visually and aurally more strange, threatening alien feel to them. Smoke, strobo lights or completely dark, strange sounds etc. Crashed ufos need more fire, smoke and debris around them. (see Kabill's enchanted crash sites and add crash landing crater and ufo parts around the wreck)

Also, you need to think ways to add variation to ground combat missions. Maybe 2-3 new mission types to spice things up.

AI, gameplay and balance

Xenonauts' AI is great but could of course benefit from more diverse group tactics, more clear racial tendencies and unpredictability. There should always be a small possibility that an alien does something really unpredictable that a player can't anticipate, even if it's not always the most optimal thing to do. Small quirkyness and silly behavior every now and then just add to the charm.

I'm sure there's lots of people here that can analyze gameplay and balance better than me, but one of the most important things I feel needs improvement is the system how different mission types are chosen and executed. In Xenonauts, it's just too easy to miss all the cool base attack and terror site missions just by having air dominance.

Alien alloys and Alenium resource system felt like a missed opportunity to balance how fast players could manufacture aircrafts. In vanilla game I just never needed to worry about those as there was always enough of both and the only restricting resource was money.

Unit experience progression should be nonlinear so that noobs gain stats more quickly than experienced soldiers. This would make full wipes more tolerable and prevent having so many over powered veterans. There should also be some other systems in place that make the game more organic in the case of catastrophic failures, so for example losing a base wouldn't be practically a case of game over or load a previous save. You should probably be able to win lost bases back or something?

Try to make the geoscape more dynamic (see Kabill's dynamic ufo's). More and earlier alien bases that spawn more missions -> more pressure for player to destroy bases. The end game needs to have more pressure other than more ufos per wave (which can get tiresome). There needs to be a way to alter different mission probabilities in relation to game time so for example in the last third of the game, aliens would drop scouting missions for more base attacks and terror missions.

Xenonauts would have benefited from at least 6 months of more polish. I've always thought the game is great till the landingships. After that, the fun and gameplay balance just isn't there. Ballistic era feels by far the best, but the more advanced the equipment gets, the more boring the game becomes. It's has lots to do with lackluster laser/plasma sfx and graphic effects I'm sure, but I think it's mostly a game balance issue. Also, there's just not enough interesting, distinct and terrifying enemies to fight in the latter half of the game (just tougher versions of the same sebillians and caesans you've already killed for the last 30h). Late game crash site maps are also of poorer quality for some odd reason.

For ground combat, I'd like to have more mobile units. An ability for them to climb and maybe crouch (Jagged Alliance) would be nice to have. An ability to drag select multiple units and realtime move them when out of combat (Jagged Alliance) and an overhead map (Jagged Alliance) ;)

And one bonus request in the end: Please add hotseat head2head mode. :)

I'll post more later. :)

Edited by Skitso
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I'd definitely buy it (of course assuming the result actually turns into a good game) even if it's largely a re-hashed/updated version of the game.

The thing that bothers me the most is easily the part with going 3D. Believe me when I say that I understand the reason for it but there's been sooo many examples of games going from sprites to 3D and failing horribly at it. I'd be more skeptical but I'd of course give it all the chance to win me over.

What I am wondering is, is there no easier way of working with sprites? It seems the engine choice hindered you guys a lot, can other engines deal with sprites in a better way perhaps? I would assume there's more ways then one with how you approach it especially between engines. It warrants investigating at the very least I would think? Sprites definitely hold up better over time compared to 3D, a sprite based game doesn't feel dated even close to as quickly as 3D games seem to. There's just some kind of quality there that seems extremely hard to translate over between the formats.

All in all you have my full support as a long-time follower of Xenonauts and Goldhawk Interactive regardless of the path you take in the end!

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Make a multiplayer (MMO-like) version of Xenonauts that continiously runs in close to real time (maybe only 3x-5x faster) where players saving the world altogether, helping each other, or competing for aliens, technologies and etc., probably sometimes fight each other. It will be something new to have out there.

Edited by Wormer
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Sorry for the lurking, but happy to hear the idea of Xenonauts 2.

In the question of story I wouldn't worry about it. Every time Civilisation releases a new version it doesn't rewrite every story from the start. In that same way I see this as being a similar format. You can have an entirely different attacking race but without the necessity to start from the end of Xenonauts (1).

Full 3D - I like the idea of 3D but I'm hesitant on the output. It would make it considerably more straightforward to set up mods. Oddly enough I really enjoyed the Commandos 2 & 3 style which mixed decent 2D rotating backdrops and 3D character sprites.

Aliens - This idea, yes. Have the option of different invading super species, different tactics and capabilities.

One other things is scenarios. Situations where you have specific maps or outcomes that are required.

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Xenonauts 2? I don't know.

Would I buy it? Yes, certainly. Goldhawk has my money more or less regardless.

But is it the game I want? I'm not so sure. I think there's two main risks, which pull in opposite directions:

1) Xenonauts, to me, has its own core identity which distinguishes itself from other similar games. As a spiritual successor to the original XCom it is stylistically distinct, while as an alien invasion game it is mechanically very distinct from Firaxis's reboot. Accordingly, for me a Xenonauts sequel or re-imagining needs to maintain its stylistic and mechanical distinction since these are what makes it 'Xenonauts'.

2) I've played Xenonauts and can continue to play it. I don't therefore especially need to play Xenonauts-but-with-some-tweaks-and-improvements because I'm not sure that makes it enough of a new game to be worthwhile. As a point of comparison, while I'm excited to see what happens with XCom 2 I'm concerned that it will end up being just a more polished version of XCom and that I would tire with it quickly because it's basically the same game I already played hundreds of hours of.

In other words, for me the key issue of a sequel/re-imagination is maintaining the distinctive identity of Xenonauts - stylistically and mechanically - while also making sufficiently distinct from Xenonauts that it's not basically just the same game. I don't in any way want to suggest that this is impossible to do but for me it's the core tension and its resolution key to whether I would be especially interested in the game.

It's been mentioned a lot above, but I do think the cold-war setting might be a good place to look to add this distinctive element. It is, incidentally, one of the innovations made by X-Com Apocalypse whereby the player was rendered one of a number of relevant actors in the game rather than as the only meaningful actor. As such, having to negotiate the demands of competing powers or having to compete with other agencies in some fashion would, I think, make for an interesting addition to the strategic layer of the game.

(There's a lot that I don't like about Apocalypse but for me this is the stand-out feature that makes it worth playing at all.)

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Skitso and kabills dynamic ufo ideas can be created by different versions of the same ufos. Very little shape upgrades, with new interiors and different crews special for mission type and game era.

So using a battleship even at beginning or using a scout at end game would be possible.

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Sorry, lost the tail of my piece when I posted.

Scenarios like water based combat (TFTD style) was always intriguing, but also thought you could include a moon location theme to a second. In essence taking it to their staging bases on the moon. Building your own base up their and all.

Geoscape as well would be great with a 3D engine again. I do miss that from the original UFO.

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Regarding Aliens

The most talked about alien, here or on the Steam forums was the Sebillian and then the Andron. Sebillian art style and Sebillian behaviour was very distinctive in comparison to pretty much any other race, and their special ability was perhaps the most useful of all the races combined (with the exception of Harridan snipers!). You always knew you were going to be in for a tough fight when you faced Sebillians. The other "main" races? Eehhh..... perhaps. Caesans felt like mooks and Androns slower Sebillians. Each alien race in the remake needs the kind of presence that Sebillians have now. I shouldn't be thinking "oh, it's Caesans, STOMP STOMP STOMP lol", I should be thinking "damn those sneaky psychic buggers!".

To join the chorus about not having enough terrifying alien types, it was a nice idea to have a race/class setup, the problem was the later classes for each race were simply statted-up versions of earlier classes which meant later classes felt like reskins of earlier classes. This was the same for commanders as much as it was for the rank and file - the most original leader/classes types were in the Caesans where you had a specific psychic class, and each commander class had their own psychic powers. I feel you could have cut the number of classes down significantly: 1 slave, 2 warrior and 2 leader classes would have been enough as they felt the same anyway! In the remake if you decide to go down the race/class route could we have fewer, but more distinctive classes? Perhaps not simply by the equipment they carry, but by how they use their central gimmick? By that I mean whatever special power a race has, each class can use it in a slightly different way, which makes their behaviour slightly different.

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I'm going to open a sub-forum for discussion of a few specific issues - initially around how the Cold War setting might be better harnessed, and a second one around how to make the aliens feel more "alien" (tying into the progression that Max mentioned).

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I'm going to open a sub-forum for discussion of a few specific issues - initially around how the Cold War setting might be better harnessed, and a second one around how to make the aliens feel more "alien" (tying into the progression that Max mentioned).

If you are serious about making this game, much more topics would be welcome. I got many things to say at every aspect of the game.

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I would eventually buy a Xenonauts 2, but it's not something I would be really excited about from the start. The changes you mention in your OP all sound good, they're also mostly things that could be incorporated into a new title. I would much rather see a new title, as I already have Xeno and soon XCOM2 for XCOM type games to play. The mercenary/pathfinder game idea may be a bit more generic, but it's at least more original.

Regarding the air combat, I find myself very conflicted about it. I'm not really a fan of the UFO wave system or the actual gameplay of the minigame simply because it is so easily solved. Once you've engaged X UFO with Y aircraft, you should know pretty much exactly what to expect and be able to reproduce it without any real element of risk/challenge. As much as XCOM's air combat is unimpressive, it at least stays out of the way of the main gameplay and doesn't require an entirely new skillset.

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If you are serious about making this game, much more topics would be welcome. I got many things to say at every aspect of the game.

I'm not serious about making the game yet - I'm just working out what the game would look like if I was going to make it. Once I know that I'll be able to make a decision about whether we should make it, or just continue working on something entirely different instead.

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If you remake it with better quality all around, there is no doubt that if I had the money, I would buy it. I think more variety and customisation of both the vehicles and soldiers would greatly enhance the game. Good luck with whatever you choose!

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I would eventually buy a Xenonauts 2, but it's not something I would be really excited about from the start.

I would buy Xenonauts 2 even if it was just an audiovisual upgrade with remade modular ufos, more polish and fixed gameplay balance. Plus improved map editor, of course! :)

Edited by Skitso
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