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kabill

Xcom 2

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The problem with stealth in a turn-based game is when you involve any more than a handful of actors, the game becomes incredibly tedious after a while as you either wait for yet another turn where you inch everyone forward a few more feet. I'm pretty sure that's why in the JA series it's real-time right up to the moment you contact an enemy, because stealth works so much better in a real-time environment, but is hella difficult to concentrate on more than a few actors at once (unless you play Starcraft professionally).

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I do that in XCOM all the time against nasty pods. You're right that it may get pretty tedious if you have to do it all the time. But if it's only against enemies that are dangerous or positioned in such a way that poses a lot of potential troubles for when you reach the target goal, then I think that's where the sweet spot is. It makes you feel a lot smarter for being patient and just like what was said in the article, what would otherwise be a losing fight will then be a chicken shooting game. And it's a great feeling that I've experienced in Long War.

Plus, in real time, it's a lot harder for you to calculate how far a patrolling enemy group can go so that you can time your ambush correctly. And it's also not possible for you to stop time and think.

Edited by EvilEagles

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The problem with stealth in a turn-based game is when you involve any more than a handful of actors, the game becomes incredibly tedious after a while as you either wait for yet another turn where you inch everyone forward a few more feet. I'm pretty sure that's why in the JA series it's real-time right up to the moment you contact an enemy, because stealth works so much better in a real-time environment, but is hella difficult to concentrate on more than a few actors at once (unless you play Starcraft professionally).

Hey, invisible inc was fun stealth game :P

(also, are you indirectly saying that Pathfinder idea's ambush element is bad idea in your opinion? xD I have to disagree with that)

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Hey, invisible inc was fun stealth game :P

(also, are you indirectly saying that Pathfinder idea's ambush element is bad idea in your opinion? xD I have to disagree with that)

Actually there was some discussion about handling the ambush tactics in Pathfinders by simply giving the ambushing player a much larger initial deployment zone and saying that turn 1 was the point at which you had tripped the alarm/been detected. Making the stealth part of the gameplay more down to character stats rather than gameplay.

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I'm honestly very excited about this game. If it weren't for the 2012 game I wouldn't have found OpenXcom or Xenonauts and I've enjoyed all three to no end, both unmodded and modded. And frankly, I think the new direction is really interesting. All the X-COM likes I've seen, if they have sequels, explore what happened after an XCOM victory, as opposed to a defeat. And I agree with the Apocalypse similarities, but that's a good thing and I honestly felt like Apoc was unfinished and that...well, it just didn't feel QUITE like an X-COM title for some reason (and again, I say that as someone who found the classics thanks to the remake, and yes, I love OG X-COM as much as new XCOM). I understand some people's concerns, especially in regards to the stealth mechanics but if they're expanded properly (which from screenshots the devs have released may be the case) it won't be a problem. In fact, I've found that most X-COM likes lack proper stealth tactics in some way, Xenonauts and to a slightly less degree 2012 XCOM being the exceptions, and even then there was room for improvement (I never understood how peaking around the corner at a group of mutons who had their backs turned alerted them, sectoids I could accept cause they're psionic, but mutons...questionable).

As for some of thixotrop's complaints...Civ V's multiplayer was never a problem for me, largely cause I don't buy games for multiplayer and I never even once HEARD of any such problems with 2012 XCOM and I got the game within that 10 month time period (in fact, I got it about a couple months after release if I remember correctly).

Drages does raise from valid concerns, potentially, but we don't know the full scoop. I get what he's saying about air-combat, but frankly we just don't know yet. For all we know, the Avenger may carry some fighter craft (which it probably would) and is probably armed itself. And as for detection...well, it wasn't easy to detect the supply barges at first in any of the X-COM/XCOM games. Even with the aliens occupying the planet, they may not be able to find XCOM as they're using the alien tech against them. That or early on, we're just not really worth their attention cause we're not that big a threat to their NWO yet. Heck, for all we know, we may order the Avenger around the globe, hitting targets where we can. One day we may be in Brazil, the next we may be in Germany, always having to keep one step ahead of the alien searches. Heck, what if the Avenger can be assaulted while it's landed? From what Mr. Solomon has told us so far, it's entirely possible fuel may be a problem that we have to manage. We don't know yet, but we'll know more in the coming weeks, and with E3 I'm sure we'll get a lot of information. Further, in regards to the tech, as other people have pointed out, XCOM got steamed rolled (which is probably what happened with most people's Impossible Ironman runs) so I doubt they had the time to develop plasma weapons or other advanced tech, and even if they did, how would they be able to properly maintain it if they're on the run and no real support yet? That's where we come in and start to turn the tide. Plus, the reveal trailer doesn't tell us a lot about what tech we're going to have at the start. For all we know, the laser sniper rifle we saw in the trailer may just be a tier two weapon like it was in the last game and we'll have to make due with a propellant based ballistic sniper rifle at the start. I mean, really? How many of us have given the cutting edge weapons to our bests troops while everyone else got stuck with last-gen gear? Plus, Advent troops noticeably DO have laser weapons, but given that they're an (alien) government funded force, it makes logical sense they would have weapons better then propellant based ballistics, but still not as good as plasma guns (after all, wouldn't want potential rebels getting your top-tier guns from disloyal or otherwise corrupt officers, would they?)

Really, we're just speculating at this point and I realize people are questioning the "aliens control things" bit but look at it like this: Okay, they've won. The ethereals were small in number. Their minions...we don't know the exact number but they were numerous but not as numerous as humans. What's more, as the game takes place 20 years after the game over ending of the prior title, the aliens are applying a CLASSIC occupation strategy, which is to swing the populace's views in your favor so they WILLINGLY work with you. Again, look at the trailer. There are recruitment posters for the Advent security forces being proudly displayed on the streets and they noticeably have no problem with the snakewoman in the trailer (who may have been their CO for all we know). At one point in the video, when an ethereal is show on an electronic board, there are Advent troops noticeably in front of it in the poster. Further, Solomon has said that in this game, we're working to expose the truth and rally people to revolt. This says to me that the actual number of alien troops is rather LOW when compared to the number of humans, thus the need for human troops.

Also there does seem to be a bit of Deus Ex thing going on here, with a LOVELY (sarcasm) gilded surface hiding a rotting and corrupted interior. The aliens are billing themselves as something along the lines of the Federation from Star Trek or the Citadel from Mass Effect (the latter may be more comparable) but it's clear that's not the case. Remember what was said by the ethereals at the end of the last game? How they were looking for a species that could "ascend as they had failed to do"? Well, I think it's safe to say their experiment is still happening. Look at the trailer. It happens outside/near a genemod clinic. Anyone remember meld and what that could do to a person's physiology? Heck, there's even evidence to suggest that cybernetics are freely available. I've always wanted a game where I could send a squad of Adam Jensen's to ruin somebody's day. ;)

Sorry if this all comes off as rambling, but I can safely say I am super excited about this and I'm trying to scour as much information as I can, as any proper XCOM officer would do. ;)

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I imagine most people on this forum are also pretty excited about XCOM 2 as well; it's always nice to have different options to play a genre you enjoy :)

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I played their first game from start to finish and it was an enjoyable experience, but one thing that left a bad taste and ruined the experience from being truly amazing was the "pod" system, where you'd have to "activate aliens" to make them alive.

On top of that, they also got a free move to get into cover or rush at you, which made the whole gameplay feel like a scripted, on-the-rails, you-only-have-fun-when-we-allow-it type of stuff.

The two-move system felt also limiting, but atleast you could get used to it as a concept.

I also despise the Meld countdown timer artificial pushing, which will be coming back as a core part of XCOM 2, since each time an enemy is killed, you have a limited amount of time to loot his gun or else it will expire into fragments.

Most curious about how will the big picture metagame will work, with the mobile HQ base and all that.

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As described, the game would seem to suggest more close-in game rather than long-range sniping, otherwise you're never going to get the nice stuff. I kinda hope there is a strategy section this time, and missions aren't simply drip-fed.

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Most curious about how will the big picture metagame will work, with the mobile HQ base and all that.

I'm thinking something along the lines of the Laputa from UFO: Aftershock.

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Though granted, dev interviews are probably more clear xD Anyway, from what I heard from interviews, their goals for strategy layer was to make it less predictable and more procedural so you wouldn't have exact same strategy on every playthrough. Same with proving grounds since thats apparently kinda random what you can get from experimental weaponry if I understood right?

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The full video of that presentation seems to have been set to private. :(

The strategic layer is designed so the aliens and you both have strategic goals, and have the option to interfere with their plans or focus on executing their own goals. Ditto for the aliens, they have options to focus on their own plans or on counter-XCOM operations. Proving ground projects have randomly determined outcomes, where you have multiple possibilities and each game you get different results.

Base defense missions confirmed, the Avenger can get shot down and assaulted by aliens. Room construction is done by assigning engineers.

I'm really liking what they have shown so far of the strategic layer. There's still an element of N number of things happening at once, and you can't react to all of them but it seems to be far less arbitrary than the abduction mission mechanic.

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Plus from in story perspective it does make more sense when you are ragtag resistance group rather than global combat unit with best resources and equipment.

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