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drages

X-Division 0.99 Ideas Discussion

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Hey ppl.. I want to discuss something with you..it's about GC weapons..

I made 4 energy 4 ballistic weapon branch and 3 versions for every weapon as upgrade. So for example gauss rifle got mk 1, mk 2 and mk 3 versions.

So I want to use replacing old versions but the weapon is not infinite, replacing erases all the weapons in stores. So u will lose the old versions of the weapons if they are not at soldiers inventory. And I can't replace the manifacture. This means u will see all the manufactures even the old versions at the manufacture UI. This means 100s of weapon manufacture.

So I can use one manufacture for every upgrade to get infinite weapons. Even I don't want to lose weapon manufacture aspect, I don't have much choise here.

With ce 33 we got more manufacture categories and random research chance. This will be good to organize the manufactures even the number is high. Random research let's us have unique items..

So what do u think about how to handle weapon manufacturing? Should I use replace and infinite weapon for branch weapons and normal manufacture for unique ones.

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[table][tr][td]Enemy Wea.Branches[/td][td]CAESAN[/td][td]WRATH[/td][td]HARRIDAN[/td][td]SEBILLIAN[/td][td]ANDRONS[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]GUARD[/td][td]LIGHTNING / PLASMA[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]FLAMER / MATERGY[/td][td]MATERGY[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]SOLDIER OFFICER[/td][td]LIGHTNING / PLASMA[/td][td]NEUTRON[/td][td]NEUTRON[/td][td]FLAMER / MATERGY[/td][td]MATERGY[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]WARRIOR LEADER[/td][td]WAVE[/td][td]PULSE[/td][td]PARTICLE[/td][td]BLOOD[/td][td]VINDICATOR[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]ELITE COMMANDER[/td][td]WAVE[/td][td]PULSE[/td][td]PARTICLE[/td][td]BLOOD[/td][td]VINDICATOR[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]TERROR[/td][td]STORM / ANTI-MATTER[/td][td]ION / ANTI-MATTER[/td][td]HYBRID / MASS / ANTI-MATTER[/td][td]HYBRID / MASS / ANTI-MATTER[/td][/tr][/table]

This is the table of the weapons and their user enemies.

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Sebs wont die with ballistics and caesans will laugh to your lasers..

We will see who will laugh in the end :).

So what do u think about how to handle weapon manufacturing?

Could you change stats of existing weapons, so that, e.g. all gauss rifles without replacement will get additional bonuses after research? If it is possible than you could omit MK1/2/3 and manufacture it as simple gauss rifle.

You could also make beg/mid weapons as infinite and the ultimate version as unique.

The other idea is to manufacture ammo to somehow balance infinite number of weapons. Instead of 100s types of weapons you could have 10s ammo types. You could also add the possibility to manufacture new ammo types from previous (if you can't remove them from manufacturing menu). I don't like this idea much but I think it is better than have nothing to manufacture at all or have the manufacture menu cluttered with 100s useless weapons.

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1. No you cant just edit an existed weapons stats.. you create a weapon and if you want an update to this, you need to create another weapon..

2. I thought that idea too but the problem is when you replace a weapon, you lose all of the old ones at stores. The ones at your soldiers inventory replaces only.. so you crafted 5 MK 1 weapon and put 2 of them at your soldiers.. You made the research for Mk2 and now you got only 2 weapon MK2.. you would lose all the effort time and materials..

3. Ammo is worst coded part at the game. Propbably its not finished yet works at default.. but at modding, ammo is a hell.. and as ammo is written at the weapon.. so changing ammo means changing the weapon.. so we return to 1...

4. Yeah 100 useless weapon at manufacture is a hell too.. If i had enough categories at manuacture, maybe it could be not so big problem but its limited too..

If i use "update weapon to another version with one manufacture", there will be very clean soldier equip menu and you wont need to search 100s manufacture for 1 pistol.. With this idea, the enemy loot will be more usefull, because i will make update manufactures need "5 plasma rifle" like...

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Drages, I have some questions.

Is there 2 weapon branches each consists of 4 weapons and each weapon has 3 undates?

Do you want to autoupdate all weapons like: gauss MK1 > MK2 > MK3 > updated gauss > updated gauss MK1 > …?

Will outdated options like update MK1 to MK2, MK2 to MK3... be in manufacture menu despite of "update weapon to another version with one manufacture" ?

Is it possible to move outdated options from one category in manufacture menu to another?

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Yes i want to do that.. and i asked the category change for CE coders.. i hope they can do something about it at next CE version.. If i use autoupdate with 1 manufacture, you will make only one manufacture per update..

I will finish weapon code before next CE version.. this manufacture number problem is the only problem i got for my project...

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If i use autoupdate with 1 manufacture, you will make only one manufacture per update..

Will this option after completion disappear from manufacture menu or you will be able to downgrade your weapon by completing some old manufacture?

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Will this option after completion disappear from manufacture menu or you will be able to downgrade your weapon by completing some old manufacture?

No downgrade.. You will research next version, the research will give you a manufacture. You will manufacture it only 1 and then after some hours all your old version became new version weapons. The weapons should be all unlimited to replace them fully.

There is another way i can use and can still have normal weapon manufacture style..

There is one way i figured out.. letting player choose which version he wants at research..

There will pop up 3 research;

1. Mk1 gauss pistol cheap

2. Mk2 gauss pistol expensive

3. Mk3 gauss pistol very expensive with unique materials.

So when you research one of it, you wont able to research other versions and the new weapon will come with version you choose. There will be only this weapon version at manufacture and soldier equip.. its the cleanest way i can imagine. But you wont able to update the weapon at future..

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There is another way i can use and can still have normal weapon manufacture style..

I think it is a good idea but not for upgrades (this means only 1 upgrade instead of 3 and many weapons in manufacture menu and in store). It is better to use to give player choice of alternative weapons, like what he prefers – to increase accuracy of a weapon or to increase its damage.

In general, I think it can be left as you suggest – with autoupdate and infinite number of weapons (with high demanding manufacture), until something will be changed in code. You could additionally implement some ultimate unique weapon near the end of the game (in addition to your infinite ordinary weapons) which needs to be manufactured and will be limited.

As a some temporary solution you can keep 2 types of weapons – the new one will be limited and the previous one will be infinite. For example, you have now infinite number of some weapon. You finished research of MK1. Then you get new manufacture option – manufacture MK1. If you complete this manufacture you will get 1-5 units of MK1 weapon of each type (rifle+pistol+...). This will not replace your current infinite weapon, so you will have 2 types – infinite ordinary weapon and limited MK1. Then, after a while new research of MK2 weapon will appear – this will give you infinite number of MK1 weapons (here MK1 can replace ordinary weapon in stock and MK2 can replace MK1 weapon) and new manufacture option to produce MK2 weapon in small amount. Here will be a choice – you can use more powerfull weapon with higher price or less powerfull but free.

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Its very hard to let it player decide what to update.. Because for every version i need to code "1" weapon.. there is already 53 branch weapons (not counting stun/chemical/flamer weapons/melee and unique weapons) so most of them 3 version already so it means to code about 120 weapon... add research/manufactures to this number..

The update is to ammo rather then weapon.. so the weapon damages or mitigation get higher.. ammo is coded in the weapon so every new ammo means new weapon as code..

You cant make a weapon limited to unlimited.. yes you can but for it you need to create same of that weapon and make it unlimited, replace it with limited version.. But it will add huge amount of coding.. I am not lazy to do but when you push very hard, you an lose control..

Anyway.. there is time for this.. i hope CE coders will handle it until i finish it..the only problem here getting ird of old weapons and manufactures. Manufactures have more categories now so i can organize it better rather then having everything under one topic. I can put a warning to research description to put the updating weapons in to the soldiers equipment..

CE coders should add manufacture deleting and weapon replacing at stores.. Ilunak made much more complex things then those :)

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Then I think the best solution is to wait.

Drages, I have thought about soldiers specialization. In game most soldiers are universal – sniper, assault, rocketeer, etc. I think it would be more interesting to make soldiers more diverse and use more thoughtfully strong and weak sides of their abilities. I mean that a soldier shouldn't be universal - if he is a good sniper than bad heavy and melee. I don't think it is possible to implement special skills and abilities for soldiers depending on their exp without a whole lot of work, but maybe there are easier solutions?

Maybe it is possible to create some pseudo-classes via stats. For example, make sniper (high acc), heavy (high str), scout (high TU) and assault (high reflexes). I have some ideas but it demands creating soldiers with highly different initial stats. Is it possible to regulate initial stats so that if one value is very high so other must be very low? Or to generate soldiers using different stat rules (some soldiers with high acc and low str, other with high str and low acc)? Or, at least, that the sum of generated stats will be equal (like 35 acc+75 str = 75 acc + 35 str)?

Also some types of armor/weapon increase stats of soldiers (like +20 to accuracy, or power armor which gave high strength), so that their own abilities are not taken into account. Is it possible to make armor/weapon stats as percent of soldier's ability (like +20% to accuracy)?

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The game has no special soldier creativity.. so it beyond modding even ce coders..

Mod got already special armours like you said.

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Mod got already special armours like you said.

I mean to make it depend on soldiers stat. For example, if soldier has 40 accuracy after wearing armor he will get + 20%, so his accuracy will be 48, but not 60.

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PROGRESS UPDATE:

Yes.. i finished all the calculations/art assets for ground combat.

For ballistic weapons:

Tier 1: Division (Old Nextgen) MK1-MK2 - Better..

Tier 2: MAG MK1-MK2-MK3 --------------- Good at burst weapons, heavy more bullet per weapon

Tier 3: Gauss MK1-MK2-MK3 ------------- Better then division

Tier 4: Rail MK1-MK2-MK3 ---------------- Long range, huge damage, heavy

For Energy:

Tier 1: Laser MK1-MK2 ------------ High acc, huge magazine, low damage, good range, beam-gattling weapons.

Tier 2: Plasma MK1-MK2-MK3 ---- High Damage, cannon

Tier 3: Pulse MK1-MK2-MK3 ------ Low damage, high mitigation, high acc, huge magazine (good choise for new soldiers)

Tier 4: Sound MK1-MK2-MK3 ----- Huge Damage, cannon

There will be SMG's, Beam, minigun/gattling and cannon type weapons at some branches. I didnt go for details here but every branch got some strong and weak points. Tier 3 and tier 1, so tier 2 and tier 4 are alike..

There will be 2 branch of stun weapons, Electron and Storm. All the chemical weapons are gone, chemical is now only for injector and explosives (stun/toxic clouds).

As you see all weapons will have updates to their "ammos" as MK... so after you searched a branch you will get new update researches per weapon. When you finished that research, you will get an update manufacture project. This project will want some material including some number of the old weapon version. After finished that manufacture, you will get the update project finished message and replaced all your old version to new version including same number of used old version weapon at that project..

Example:

1. Research for Division Weapons.

2. You got pistol MK1, shotgun MK1 and rifle MK1.

3. You will get Division Pistol Update after you made alien alloy research.

4. You will research Division Pistol Update and you will get Division Pistol Update Project as manufacture.

5. You will use 10 Alien alloy, 2 Alien Matergy Pistol and 3 Division Pistol MK1 for this project.

6. After a little while it finished all your division pistols in your soldiers will update to Div.Pistol MK2 and you will have 3 Div.Pistol MK2. You will have a new manufacture for MK2 pistols with same materials but maybe a bit expensive money. MK1 manufacture will stay for now, but it wont manufacture anything.

7. After this you will have a chance to get the research for Division SMG.

Every weapon update will have chance to give you more unique weapon at that branch. It could be a SMG, a beam, a minigun or a cannon.. maybe more.. Some versions will make the weapon damage higher, some others will give mitigation depend on the branch.

There will be unique researchs to give you limited unique weapons, maybe one special gun maybe a special sniper..

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Nice to see, that you made it.

There will be many different types of weapons – to balance all this is not easy task.

Will all tiers be useful throughout the whole game (not like 0.98 where the next tier was always better than the previous)?

As I see you decided not to use infinite number of weapons and all previously manufactured weapons will be lost?

Also if I need MK2 shotgun should I research MK1 pistol first?

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Nice to see, that you made it.

There will be many different types of weapons – to balance all this is not easy task.

Will all tiers be useful throughout the whole game (not like 0.98 where the next tier was always better than the previous)?

As I see you decided not to use infinite number of weapons and all previously manufactured weapons will be lost?

Also if I need MK2 shotgun should I research MK1 pistol first?

I will use some tricks. The weapons will be limited and should be manufactured but as you read, the update procedure would need for example 3 old pistol and will give you 3 new version.. so i plan to avoid to lose as many old weapon as i can at the "replace" part.There will be a warning if the player got more then the update required they should put them in to inventory before update.

I worked over the updated versions today and i gave to weapons next versions important buffs with more damage.. For example MK1 rifle (MK 1 means the default one) will get +2 range at MK2 and +1 burst shot (3 to 4) for MK3.. as you there are little but very important things. As research tree, you need to get some versions of a type of weapon to get another type, like a minigun will need at least MK2 heavy weapon research..

You will need to research step by steps yes.. MK1-MK2-MK3... There will be some places to use some older branch weapons mostly the MK3 versions will be unique as much as i can create but there is 8 branch, 4 kinetic 4 energy.. i can say you will use 1 kinetic and 1 energy branch for sure and if we count you should use the MK3 ones when you update the new branch so at least 4 branch will be in use most of the game. You will have researches to clean the very old ones.. Like after you got core weapons at "Division" branch there will come a research which allows you throw all the default weapons from soldier equip screen.. so your weapon selection screen will be much clean.

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And what about game length? The game tends to be very long, but there will be only 2 weapon updates for each branch (if MK1 is default). If you get MK3 too early in the game – this weapon will be too weak in the end, in other case you will need to play the most part of the game with original weapon or its first update MK2.

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And what about game length? The game tends to be very long, but there will be only 2 weapon updates for each branch (if MK1 is default). If you get MK3 too early in the game – this weapon will be too weak in the end, in other case you will need to play the most part of the game with original weapon or its first update MK2.

I think you got something wrong.. there will be 8 branch and 3 update for each weapon at each branch..

1. Beginning Phase: Light Scout-Scout-Corvette = Division (MK1-2-3) and Laser Branches (MK1-2) --- 1.-3. Month

2. Middle Phase: Landing-Cruiser = MAG (MK1-2-3) and Plasma Branches (MK1-2-3) --- 3.-7. Month

3. Late Phase: Carrier-Battleship = Gauss (MK1-2-3) and Pulse Branches (MK1-2-3) --- 7.-11. Month

4. Late Phase: Dreadnought-Mothership = Rail (MK1-2-3) and Sonic Branches (MK1-2-3) 11.-14. Month

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Now I see – it will be interesting to try.

so i plan to avoid to lose as many old weapon as i can at the "replace" part

Is it possible to autosold all old weapons before replacing?

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Now I see – it will be interesting to try.

Is it possible to autosold all old weapons before replacing?

Replacing, replace old weapons at soldiers inventory, deletes the ones at store. So you can put them into soldiers before update..

Probably CE coders will handle this problem at 34 with manufacture deleting..

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Again about soldiers creativity.

I suggest some balance changes to implement strength as the most important attribute for a heavy class. In the current game to make a heavy just take a soldier with any str attribute and give him power armor – he will instantly get 100 str or more – it's like a cheat. I mean to allow the use of best armor with heavy melee/range weapon and best melee weapon with shields only for soldiers with high strength.

Details are under the spoiler.

I suggest the following changes:

1) Increasing str diversity in initial soldiers str stats (say from 30 to 80). Decreasing str progress in battles from 3 to 2 or even 1 (str is the easiest attribute to improve in battle and if not decrease this att all soldiers will soon have high str). Increasing global value to 110-120. This will give the possibility to hire high str soldiers and prevent low str soldiers to highly improve their str.

2) Removing strength bonuses from power armor (predator etc.) and maybe even increasing its weight.

3) Increasing weight of shields (optional), melee and heavy weapon. So that even in the beginning only soldiers with str above 70 could use them without penalty. As the time in game passes new versions should be heavier too.

4) Increasing suppression value for all heavy weapons (it's optional – I just like suppression :)). Since higher initial str attribute usually will come with lower other stats accuracy should be increased as a heavy weapon bonus or a power armor bonus (maybe the latter is better).

5) Implementing the heavy melee weapon (with high damage/accuracy/weight) to take with power armor. Maybe even add the possibility to take shields with power armor.

A player will have a new heavy class based on strength which will be the only class to be able to use both the best heavy armor and heavy range/melee weapon. The heavy soldiers should be hired from the beginning with high str ability since otherwise it will be difficult to reach high str in game. Accuracy will not be too important here (compared to other classes), since melee weapon will have high accuracy and heavy range weapon/armor will have accuracy bonus (also heavy cannons like plasma shotgun can be used – they don't rely much on accuracy since they have square damage). On the other hand soldiers with normal strength won't be able to wear both power armor and heavy weapon.

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1. Decreasing str.. i dont know its doable.. a strange think to put in game. They are soldiers, spec ops type.. so losing str is not so realistic..it could be ok for a wounded soldier who is at sickbay but i thing game wont handle it..

2. Str bonus of power armour can be lowered yes. It's not so big deal, because a power armour guy would only use its heavy weapon.. nothing else..

3. Game has now Minigun class, which is the coolest one.. i love miniguns.. miniguns are realy heavy, slow, huge bullet fire (20-30), very low acc, huge suppression.. mainly designed to power armour.. Shields should be heavy yes. I designed some blades for melee combat, but blades are not so heavy at irl.. so for heavy melee we need sledgehammers and then the game becomes warhammer :P...

4. Yep minigun suppress everyone on the way.. i tested it and about 2 enemy and 5 soldier suppressed on the way :)

5. Power armour and shield is nice idea.. BUT.. sadly there is no visuals for this at power armour. I can make a non-visual force field but then you need a one handed very heavy weapon.. then this 1 handed heavy weapon could be used by any soldier with enough str.. so it necame too complicated.. If there was a toggle "only power armour can use this weapon", we could use it.. i can ask it for CE coders and they can kill me.. i want so many things :)

So we cant hire special str guys from the beginning, the str bonus of the power armour make able to use a not so experienced soldier this big weapons..

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5. Power armour and shield is nice idea.. BUT.. sadly there is no visuals for this at power armour. I can make a non-visual force field but then you need a one handed very heavy weapon.. then this 1 handed heavy weapon could be used by any soldier with enough str.. so it necame too complicated.. If there was a toggle "only power armour can use this weapon", we could use it.. i can ask it for CE coders and they can kill me.. i want so many things :)

101% TU Cost is possible; 298% is a nice TU cost too.

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101% TU Cost is possible; 298% is a nice TU cost too.

How did i forget that!!!! Love you!!!

Pfff i need to fine new weapon sprites now... I got all the weapons with clean side view.. I can make some miniguns for only power armour... and with force field.. omg.. its like an early Fallout 4!!!!

Edited by drages

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