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drages

X-Division 0.99 Ideas Discussion

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I didn't have plan about ballistic yet. Mag weapons are always strange to me.. and I don't know what to name the branches of kinetic weapons.

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Mag weapons can either be high mitigation needle spray guns or high accuracy, high damage, explosive railguns.

There will be rail weapons too.. i dont like "mag" name...

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Well, let's review all the names we can name the techs: Gauss, MAC, rail, Mag, slugger, accelerator (cannon), coilgun, etc. Mag either standing for Magnetic Accelerating/tor Gun. Or short for magnetic. MAC is from Halo, slugger from Star Wars Expanded Universe. Rail weapons are okay for larger weapons, but are simply too forceful for infantry weapons. Probably all of the magnetic acceleration weapons (MAW xD) for the ground troops will be coilguns. MACs are cannons, hence the C. Slugger feels like the name for the alien weapons (kinetic pistol being a slugger, kinetic machine guns being Needler, and so on.)

Plus those special weapons that we can make from the special alien weapons on the special aliens that make armor paper-mâché would probably do kinetic damage, for simplicity. (Else we have to explain why it do what it do.)

Edited by Woz2

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The special weapons will use anti matter tech, will be both ballistic and energy types. They will be all aoe damage so the shields will be useless too because they do very little damage so a bug shield can save you for 3 mission. This would make that weapons very useless.

So we don't have much names or techs. Gauss and coil maybe rail at end.. so normal coil gauss then rail would be a good order I think.

I don't plan to manufacture special weapons for us. It will give a good mitigation bonus for all weapons. We will see when I finished geosphere part.

Edited by drages

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Although... Coil is technology superior to rail... As rails simply accelerate an object (the most basic form of the gauss principle), coils give a spin to the object, therefore making it more stable in flight, and maintain its velocity better. That's why rifles are superior to smooth-tubed guns. (Pistols have rifling as well, shotguns do not) Overal, railguns are impractical and inferior; but require less finesse to make. So, they would be chosen for much larger projects, wherein such finesse is difficult. So... Yeah.

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So give me the list then

I assume you mean the list of logic progression of weapons? Traditional powder weapons (and their many variations), prototype heavier Gauss (with rail cannons for the vehicles and heavy-slower firing cannons for aircraft. Basically, no burst fires), type II gauss (with higher rate-of-fire, bursts back, less TU cost [very small difference though, but it can matter in combat], much more lightweight.), MAG burst weaponry prototypes (we don't want it to quite phase out gauss II... how you do that is up to you whether it be limiting the weapons available [like machine guns, SMGs {two handed ones}, etc.] or by just making its less accurate. At first it'd be chaotic burst of fire, good for suppression and CQC, giving our interceptors and vehicles new rapid-fire weapons. It'd have copious amounts of ammo, fire very large amounts of needles downrange, high-mitigation, and have pretty crap accuracy.), Gauss III and MAG II (MAG a little before gauss, MAG sees a lot of buffs in accuracy and controllability, making MAG mid-range combat competitive to gauss mid-range. Gauss sees a damage and range buffs to make it up-to-date with the enemies. Again, MAG is more for close quarters; surpessions; and fast, light fire. Gauss is better for long range and heavy, slower weapons.), then (if needed) have an overarching MAWS tech, taking the best aspects of the MAG and Gauss specialty and combining them into a weapon set. With the MAG LMG/SMG/Machine pistol/carbine [or light rifle] and Gauss sniper/heavy pistol/slug gun [it's like a shotgun, but without the buckshot aspect]/Personal cannon/ heavy rifle. Slight tweaks, but this would be the final footnote in kinetic weaponry [until anti-material weapons come around])

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The individual iterations would have to be named according to taste and what we gleam from alien tech that allows us to make that iteration. Gauss III can be dropped to give MAG the spotlight for a bit as well (and simplify our scrolling menus)

We can also do something similar for energy weapons.

Edited by Woz2

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The individual iterations would have to be named according to taste and what we gleam from alien tech that allows us to make that iteration. Gauss III can be dropped to give MAG the spotlight for a bit as well (and simplify our scrolling menus)

We can also do something similar for energy weapons.

Wos2, your knowledge and planning is beyond me and game itself. We need to think more simple and branch wise.. Please fill those branches with your ideas as plus and minus.. like +Dmg -Miti +Range -Burst , Sus, Reaction, Ammo, Acc, weight.. i wrote what i got in my mind from your ideas.

So i made my plan about weapon branches and their damage/mitigation updates. I made some standarts for them.. so the idea is we will have 2 branches per default weapons.. i mean

--------------------------------------

As Kinetic:

1. Default -> Advanced Ballistic - Gauss : +range +dmg +reaction +acc

2. MAG -> Coil : +Burst, +Ammo, +miti, +sus,

You will get,

1.Adv.Bal. (1. Phase -Scouts/Corvette)

2.MAG (2. Phase -Landing Ship/Cruiser)

3.Gauss (3. Phase -Carrier/Battleship)

4.Coil (4. Phase - End Game)

------------------------------------

As Energy

1. Laser -> Pulse : +Range +Miti +Acc +Ammo -Sus -Reaction

2. Plasma -> Ion : +Damage +Suss +Burst +Reaction

You will get,

1.Laser (1. Phase -Scouts/Corvette)

2.Plasma (2. Phase -Landing Ship/Cruiser)

3.Pulse (3. Phase -Carrier/Battleship)

4.Ion (4. Phase - End Game)

------------------------------------

As Stun

1. Electroshock +damage +burst +sus +ammo

2. Blaster : +range +acc +miti +reaction

------------------------------------

All weapons will get 2 or 3 updates in same branch.. Ballistic weapons get more mitigation bullets with material/armour researches and energy weapons will get more damage/ammo with power source/armour researches. So when you are using laser weapons, it will replace with laser weapons MK 2 with proper researches.

I am waiting your ideas about this system..

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Both MAG and Gauss are coil though, as are the plasma weapons. I see what you want though. This is just my personal ideas.

Kinetic

Ballistic-->Gauss-->Mag (or we can rename it to the MBS... Magnetic Burst System)-->MAW(Magnetic Acceleration Weapons)

Ballistic: Med ammo, balanced rate of fire, low miti, low damage, low weight, med reaction, low cost, med accuracy, med range

Ballistic weapons: Sniper, assault rifle, shotgun, SMG (two-handed), pistol, machine pistol, light/heavy infantry cannon, LMG. (Feel free to add any I missed)

Gauss: low ammo, low RoF, low miti, high damage, med gun weight + high ammo weight, low reaction, med cost, med accuracy, long range

Gauss weapons: Sniper, battle rifle, shotgun, pistol, light infantry cannon, new rocket launcher (?)

Mag/MBS: high ammo, high RoF, high miti, low damage, high gun weight + low ammo weight, high reaction, high cost, low range, med accuracy (fairly high accuracy for being burst-only weapons)

MBS weapons: Sniper, assault carbine, SMG, machine pistol, LMG

MAW: mix of Gauss and Mag/MBS. New Annihilator weapons. Will go into detail.

-New gauss-type weapons: Sniper, battle rifle, pistol, shotgun

-New gauss stats: med ammo, med RoF, med miti, high damage, med weight, low reaction (exception of pistol), high accuracy, long range

-New MBS-type weapons: LMG, assault carbine, SMG, machine pistol

-New MBS stats: extreme ammo, high ROF, high miti, low damage, light weight, high reaction, med range, high accuracy

-Annihilator stats: low ammo, low RoF, high miti, extreme damage, high weight, low (or no)reaction, low-ish range, med accuracy

-Annihilator weapons: Heavy Infantry Cannon, Light Infantry Cannon ALL EXPLOSIVES

Energy

Beam Laser-->Pulse--->Plasma--->(Insert fancy acronym here, ESS for now)

Beam: med ammo, high RoF, low miti, low damage, med weight, high reaction, long range, extreme accuracy, med cost

Beam weapons: Sniper, assault carbine, SMG, machine pistol, LMG, pistol

Pulse: low ammo, med RoF, high miti, low damage, light weight, high reaction, med range, med accuracy, med cost

Pulse weapons: Sniper, assault rifle, ultra-light cannon, pistol, SMG, machine pistol, LMG, light infantry cannon

Plasma: low ammo, low RoF, med miti, high damage, high weight, low reaction, low range (bolt degradation), med accuracy, high cost

Plasma weapons: battle rifle, shotgun, pistol, medium infantry cannon, long rifle

ESS: Again, a mixture of everything. Beam, Pulse, and Plasma weapons

-New Beam stats: med ammo, high RoF, med miti, low damage, med weight, high reaction, extreme range, extreme accuracy

-New Beam weapons: Sniper, marksman carbine

-New Pulse Stats: low ammo, med RoF, high miti, med damage, light weight, high reaction, med range, med accuracy

-New Pulse weapons: assault carbine, SMG, LMG, machine pistol

-New Plasma stats: low ammo, low RoF, med miti, high damage, med weight, low reaction, low range, med accuracy

-New Plasma weapons: battle rifle, pistol, light infantry cannon, shotgun

TECH NOTES

Ballistic: Cheap. Lotsa freedom. Jack of all trades.

Gauss: Slow, cumbersome, but if you can draw them out, they'll fall

Mag: Fast, loose, chaotic, friendly fire and suppression is a major threat. BURST-ONLY

Gauss II: Not nearly as slow, takes up many aspects of ballistic's balanced stats. Long range, high damage. Burst is typically not used. Medium-to-long range combat

Mag II: Significantly more accurate, however still have the threat of friendly fire/suppression. Weight plummets for competitiveness. Close-to-medium range combat.

Annihilator: You know that black hole gun? Yeah, pretty much like that thing. Maybe the primary weapons for the mech suit thingy (colossus)?

Beam: Fast to fire, slower to kill. To properly kill a target, you have land a solid "burst" to kill it. Incredibly accurate and long range, with ammo caps comparable to ballistic.

Pulse: Batteries burn quickly, range and accuracy are very dropped compared to beam, but overall are fairly balanced/medium-high.

Plasma: Slow, heavy, inaccurate, but if you can hit then they'll drop. With two explosive weapons, they'll be easily suppressed. Ranges are short. Difficult to use, but dangerous nonetheless.

Beam II: High ammo, extremely long range. Snipers go-to.

Pulse II: More balanced all around, more damage, more accurate. Designed for mid-range combat.

Plasma II: Serious buffs in range and versatility. Much more accurate than it used to be. Best suited for close range combat still. However, the Plasma battle rifle is decent range.

WEAPON GUIDE

One-handed weapons: Come in two variants

-Standard pistol: Close range, semi-automatic (with a few notable exceptions) sidearm. Fairly accurate within its range and incredibly easy to handle.

-Machine pistol: Close range, auto-only primary weapon. Designed to be paired with the shield, it's heavy (for a pistol) and somewhat unwieldy. Not very accurate, but destroys targets at point blank. Unfortunately burns through its clip incredibly fast.

Assault weapons: Versatile, mid range guns that come in 3 variants

-Assault rifle: Basic balanced mid-range weapon. Standard for the class.

-Battle rifle: Higher damage, higher range. On the contrary, heavier, cumbersome, and less accurate.

-Assault carbine: Lower damage, lower range; however it has higher accuracy, is lighter, and is much easier to use.

Marksman weapons: Long-range weapons, come in three variants.

-Plasma Exclusive- Long Rifle: The early plasma attempt at a sniper rifle, with range equivalent to a traditional battle rifle and explosive rounds. Cumbersome, heavy, but effective.

-Beam Exclusive- Marksman Carbine: A lightweight, easy-to-use, long range, highly accurate sniper alternative. Drops off damage and range and accuracy for weight and ease of use. Designed for scouts or multi-role sharpshooters

-Sniper/Precision rifle: The standard high-damage, high-accuracy, long-range weapon.

CQC weapons: Come in three variants.

-Shotgun: High-damage, ultra-close range, inaccurate spray of fire.

-Pulse Exclusive- Ultra-light cannon: The laser attempt at a shotgun, fires one massive burst of armor-piercing damage. Incredibly low ammo, incredibly close range, but decently accurate within that range.

-Submachine Gun: Alternative to the shotgun, the SMG has a higher range, and some suppressive power. It is fairly accurate, and fires a burst of pistol-strength rounds. Very lightweight, and ideal for multi-role troopers. Easy-to-use.

Heavy Weapons: Come in two variants.

-LMG: Standard heavy burst weapon.

-Cannons: Come in three variants

*Light Infantry cannon (AKA the Infantry Cannon): Grenade-launcher style weapon. Heavy, slow, high damage.

*Plasma Exclusive- Medium Infantry Cannon: The early plasma attempt at an LMG, with a low rate of fire. Hard to set up, but once set up it can decimate the enemy with its explosive Long Rifle rounds, albeit highly inaccurate.

*Annihilator Exclusive- Heavy Infantry Cannon. Well it's heavy, a cannon, and very explosive.

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Nice! I will mix them with my ideas (not so different from yours, just make them fit to the game mechanics)..

And wos.. you know you need to write their X-Pedia too :)

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Yeah, I knows. I got the gist of each weapon and tech type. I could start working on it now if this is what we're gonna use.

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Yeah, I knows. I got the gist of each weapon and tech type. I could start working on it now if this is what we're gonna use.

I cant make II, III, i will make updates yes but little ones mostly to the damage stats rather then weapon itself..

So I will use Adv.Ballistic-Gauss-Mag-Antimatter and for energy beam to pulse and plasma to ???..

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No, no. I was saying you mesh all the previous techs together. Antimatter is a new explosive tech, but otherwise, the antimatter impliments into the pre-existing technologies.

Look at the big long list sir

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No, no. I was saying you mesh all the previous techs together. Antimatter is a new explosive tech, but otherwise, the antimatter impliments into the pre-existing technologies.

Look at the big long list sir

Wos.. your list is awesome but too much detailed and got different abilities, too many changing values.. imagine to balance them all.. I need some simple things with standarts.. I realy dont have any idea how to make that kind of tons of different weapon types. Please remember all the UFO games so far.. they got branches with cool names but MOST of the weapons are nearly update to another.. yes i will make more variety but still if i lose control, balance will leave the room.. I tried this at 0.96 and it was chaos..

So i will make ballistic-laser-plasma-mag with unique abilities +,- stats and i will make an advanced branch to them.. adv ballistic will become gauss, laser become pulse, plasma becomes ???, MAG becomes ???.. i will use the details you said at branch abilities.. but there should be branches.. yes branches can have a unique weapon ofcourse.. but still it needs to be a branch, with pistol,rifle,shotgun(or like),sniper,heavy and maybe cannon...

So i cant coder more complex then that.. i can do it yes, but that chaos would be worst then Xenophobia..

Can i explain myself?.. please understand me..

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Ballistic becomes gauss which later becomes MAG. However, gauss and mag are imperfect for the roles in which we try to stick the early weapons. As a result, for the fourth tech, you combine the strongest aspects of gauss and the strongest aspects of MAG to make a mixed tech. Beam becomes pulse, and gauss plus alien plasma tech becomes our plasma. I'm not saying make an advanced branch, I'm saying combine them all for a fourth and final tech. It'll make our scrolling bars much stuff simpler. And balanced? The guns are supposed to be self-balancing. With sarcrifices made along the way for certain weapons. But what they sacrifice in some areas, they make up in others.

This is why I say combine them at the end, as all of the strengths of the weapons are fleshed out for use to use at its best. For example, beam is incredibly accurate. So it makes great snipers. Gauss is high damage. Make excellent battle rifles. Mag is insane bursts with insane ammo amounts. Great for LMGs. There will be cases where the previous tech is better than the new one for your play style, but it'll get to a point where they simply don't do enough damage. This will force us to adapt. Take risks. Learning curve with the reward of complete tactical freedom at the end with the compiled, final tech. It renovates all the weapons and improves them greatly. Go ahead and read what I said a few times. It's important you understand what I'm saying here. It's actually simpler than your system in a way. And more interesting.

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The whole thought on it is that each weapon has a glaring weakness. Especially the more advanced we get. For beam, it's the fact that the guns take time to kill their targets, and the lack of mitigation. For pulse it's the low ammo, and the decreased general range usage compared to beam (but is actually pretty okay). For plasma, it's the sheer inaccuracy of the weapons at range. For gauss, it's the weight of the ammo, and how combersome they are. For MAG it's the danger of friendly fire, weight of the guns at start, and limited range (compared to gauss).

But they each have some very huge strengths. For beam it's the accuracy and ease of use. For pulse it's the ability to pass right through armor, light weight, and the decent damage to boot. For plasma it's the copious amounts of damage it can do at close quarters, and the sheer destructive power of the med. cannon and long rifle. For gauss it's the ability to do a lot of damage from afar. For MAG it's the ability to pass right through armor, massive suppressive power, and the damage output at close range.

Edited by Woz2
"For pulse it's the..." typed beam twice

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So you say... ballistic-gauss-MAG, laser-pulse-plasma then a ultimate 4. branch...

but u say, when we get gauss, we will use it just at riffles, mag at LMG,laser at sniper.. this will make weapon number even lesser then vanilla game.. I cant accept that because the game is long and there is so much things to research.. your plan makes them absolute.. I mean so what will player get when he researched alien vindicator weapons? or interrogate a weapon officer?..

This mod will be played by normal players from all ages.. this science even fired up my brain as someone who plays sci-fi games for 25 years.. i cant imagine a 15 years old one... People cant calculate all of that stat changes.. we dont have even lore %90 of the weapons and how can i explain every weapons (not branches) + and - ? I cant even explain the damage types and resistances.. We need to be more simple...

I will use some cool names and leave real science a bit.. because there is no limit when you try to discuss..

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You can use it for whatever the engineering team could practically make. There are gauss shotguns that are quite effective. The thing that gauss really lacks in is for burst weapons. And there can be burst weapons, but they'll be slow-firing. And generally not very good. And the stat changes? I can explain that with overarching tech entries and Tactical Analysis on weapon types. Plus the unique guns having their own entries and explanations anyway. Alien vindicator could be a perquisite for something farther down the road. OR it could give you vehicle or plane weapons. Or an off-shoot branch. Like the Flame shotgun is to ballistic weapons. Rewards don't have to be instant, and the start of each tech bookmark doesn't have to be final.

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Basically, gauss will be all non-burst weapons. And do it great. With maybe a crappy LMG attempt. Mag will do everything except shotgun, cannon, and standard pistol. Beam will do all except shotgun and cannon. Burst will do all. Plasma will do all except SMG, Machine pistol, or autofire in general. There will be a crappy attempt at a sniper rifle and LMG, but it makes up for it by sheer power.

The ultimate will have everything at its peak ability. Barely below the aliens individually, but combined is incredibly powerful.

Edited by Woz2

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I see there is an interesting discussion about weapon system. There are many attractive suggestions. IMHO it will be difficult to balance many different weapon types with quite diverse properties.

I think, it would be easier to unify all weapons and broaden the idea of alien resistances. For example, laser rifle for Androns can inflict the same damage as plasma rifle for Ceasans and ballistic weapon (as universal weapon) half that damage but equal to both of them). This will help to better adjust game balance. Moreover there will be no one universal/superior weapon to take on a mission – each time a player should choose proper weapon according to enemy species.

Differences can be left in weapon types, for example:

sniper rifle – long distance, high damage, low ammo, high TU, high accuracy;

shotgun – very short distance, med. mitigation/damage/suppression, low TU;

rifle – med. distance, med. damage, med. accuracy, low TU;

cannon – med. distanse, med. square damage, low. accuracy, low ammo, high TU;

heavy weapon - med. accuracy, med. distance, high damage, high suppression (imho suppression is very useful to prevent reaction fire, maybe even increase its chance), med TU, etc.

Several lines of weapons could be, for example, kinetic (as suggested ballistic-gauss-MAG), beam (laser-lance laser-precision laser), plasma (plasma-alenium-wave) or something like that. Each line (except universal kinetic) will be very effective against some alien species but useless against others. Each type of weapon could be autoupgraded after corresponding research to improved version like nextgen laser rifle which will give some bonuses to ammo/weight/accuracy. There also could be some weapons which will only autoupdate without having separate lines like flame-thrower or chemical weapon.

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Andron weakness are explosives and/or strong energy weapons. Caesans and Harridins it's kenetics. Sebs it's energy weapons. Melee it's energy and incendiary. Chem is useless against sebs (mostly), androns, probably reapers, and xenos (don't bother). Energy is almost useless against Caesans and Harridans. Flames are also not very good against Sebs. As a general rule: use the type of weapon that isn't the enemy's signature weapons. As the resistances breakdown should tell you.

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Andron weakness are explosives and/or strong energy weapons. Caesans and Harridins it's kenetics. Sebs it's energy weapons. Melee it's energy and incendiary. Chem is useless against sebs (mostly), androns, probably reapers, and xenos (don't bother). Energy is almost useless against Caesans and Harridans. Flames are also not very good against Sebs. As a general rule: use the type of weapon that isn't the enemy's signature weapons. As the resistances breakdown should tell you.

Androns should be strong against chemicals?

Edited by Man of Doge

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Androns should be strong against chemicals?

This comes to what you do try to make as chemicals.

1. Chemicals are poisons: This can kill and stun a life form who dont have immunity to it. So mechanical units wont get any damage.

2. Chemicals are acids: This would damage everything inculding heavy armours depends its power. No stun, no injection.. only the creature you took it would have very high resistance.

So with this case, i tries both at different versions and it will be "poison" at 0.99.. You cant stun ppl with acid as i know..

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